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JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)

32. Realpolitik is usually very naive.

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 09:42 AM

Jun 2013

Last edited Wed Jun 12, 2013, 12:07 PM - Edit history (1)

People get off on playing generals and statesmen in their heads, adopting the perspectives of high-level cannibals while completely ignoring their own interests, effectively preparing to serve themselves up for dinner. That's naive. The idea that the dirty "strong" option is somehow automatically the superior one for "our" interest has been successfully ingrained in people through the "Machiavellian" mind set. It's bullshit. (It's also not really Machiavelli, but that's another story.)

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Rationalizing an authoritarian surveillance state is naive. [View all] JackRiddler Jun 2013 OP

Yeah but Glenn Greenwald invalidates all that so there neverforget Jun 2013 #1

But but but Phlem Jun 2013 #2

Naive is such a kind way to put it NoOneMan Jun 2013 #3

I think it was a reference to the Sensible Liberals' favorite adjective nxylas Jun 2013 #22

Yeah, pretty much. JackRiddler Jun 2013 #64

Best humor posted yet! WovenGems Jun 2013 #102

Imperialism has been claiming humanitarian motives... JackRiddler Jun 2013 #104

"If Snowden was an Iranian or a Chinese ProSense Jun 2013 #4

Legal? It is to laugh. JackRiddler Jun 2013 #5

Please, ProSense Jun 2013 #6

Uh despite your user id, truedelphi Jun 2013 #12

Where you in favor of these programs when GWB was in office? peacebird Jun 2013 #20

You're not going to get a straight answer on that, I wager. JackRiddler Jun 2013 #53

Either this program will be declared unconstitutional or JDPriestly Jun 2013 #23

I guess we'll have to resort to more low tech means marions ghost Jun 2013 #78

Lol, have you been reading what the Europeans think of our 'legal' spying on them? sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #67

I think it is more willful ignorance than it is true naivete Skittles Jun 2013 #7

+1 n/t area51 Jun 2013 #21

Thank you for posting. I wholeheartedly agree with your well-written post. DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #8

DURec leftstreet Jun 2013 #9

Boom. Starry Messenger Jun 2013 #10

Not naive, suicidal. K&R. Egalitarian Thug Jun 2013 #11

Denial and Defiance. "There isn't a problem/There is a problem but it's not so bad." Fire Walk With Me Jun 2013 #13

Falling for CATO propaganda is also naive. ucrdem Jun 2013 #14

Then let's turn the conversation to "Why doesn't Obama eliminate these Bush programs now" Fire Walk With Me Jun 2013 #15

Fine, let's talk about that. ucrdem Jun 2013 #16

Could he veto FISA? End the "patriot act"? Unsign his two signings of the NDAA with its section 1021 Fire Walk With Me Jun 2013 #17

Could you put those questions in an OP? ucrdem Jun 2013 #18

I encourage you to take the post word-for-word and create an OP. I promised myself to stop arguing Fire Walk With Me Jun 2013 #19

Clearly it's you who's fallen for some talking point. JackRiddler Jun 2013 #31

That this is a "manufactured RW scandal" is discredited by the fact that even Cheney usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #81

Far from Cato propaganda, I think. Th1onein Jun 2013 #106

congratulations-- this is so well-written and persuasive that the swarm cannot answer it carolinayellowdog Jun 2013 #24

naive? more like machiavellian. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #25

Realpolitik is usually very naive. JackRiddler Jun 2013 #32

unless the people doing the rationalizing are actually intelligence operatives HiPointDem Jun 2013 #35

+100 or political operatives. nt Mojorabbit Jun 2013 #40

or both HiPointDem Jun 2013 #41

What are you playing in your head? Skidmore Jun 2013 #93

Kick, Rec and ... if I can find something that fits... I will fucking FRAME it. n/t Smarmie Doofus Jun 2013 #26

Thanks! (Blush!) JackRiddler Jun 2013 #63

k&r Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #27

k&r n/t RainDog Jun 2013 #28

k/r marmar Jun 2013 #29

k&r for a righteous rant. n/t Laelth Jun 2013 #30

When you talk about fighting the secret government, perhaps you could elaborate Progressive dog Jun 2013 #33

Is that all you can see - armed uprising or elections? JackRiddler Jun 2013 #34

Oh where oh where have the tea party gone Progressive dog Jun 2013 #39

What I have seen since the 60s is that Mojorabbit Jun 2013 #42

So what, I would think most of the people in the surveillance apparatus Progressive dog Jun 2013 #51

"The government of the US" JackRiddler Jun 2013 #43

The representatives chosen by the people write the laws that Progressive dog Jun 2013 #48

Same bullshit rationalization you hear when Bush is in power. JackRiddler Jun 2013 #50

Same bullshit that people who can't deal with not being in charge spout Progressive dog Jun 2013 #54

You're not in charge of anything. JackRiddler Jun 2013 #55

Outside which parliamentary system, the USA doesn't have one Progressive dog Jun 2013 #56

Your pedestrian understanding of terms is indicative. JackRiddler Jun 2013 #58

Yours understanding is lacking Progressive dog Jun 2013 #59

Is that your idea of a people power movement? JackRiddler Jun 2013 #75

I was mocking you, you don't even live in the USA Progressive dog Jun 2013 #76

Oh, the wounded nationalist calls me a foreigner. JackRiddler Jun 2013 #79

Where are you from? Progressive dog Jun 2013 #80

Foreign elements! Spies! Infiltrators! Commies! JackRiddler Jun 2013 #82

We both know you are not an American, Progressive dog Jun 2013 #84

Vile little man. JackRiddler Jun 2013 #89

Self description huh Progressive dog Jun 2013 #90

Expose the foreign elements! Traitors! Spies! JackRiddler Jun 2013 #100

Five days to think up a reply, huh, Jack Progressive dog Jun 2013 #101

I don't spend my life stalking you, sir. JackRiddler Jun 2013 #103

I never said you did Progressive dog Jun 2013 #105

Another admission Progressive dog Jun 2013 #99

Only 40% of American voters can name the three branches of government Fumesucker Jun 2013 #98

"broad multi-issue coalitions" marions ghost Jun 2013 #74

If the NSA is good at finding out shit why were we lied into a war with Iraq? L0oniX Jun 2013 #36

One of the most fascinating aspects ProSense Jun 2013 #37

So do you think the history of civil rights stopped at Plessy v. Ferguson? JackRiddler Jun 2013 #44

No, that wasn't my argument, but I think you know that. n/t ProSense Jun 2013 #45

Merely the upshot. JackRiddler Jun 2013 #49

Thank you so very much! TheKentuckian Jun 2013 #68

Way closer to cut and dry than all the excuses and catch phrases want to think TheKentuckian Jun 2013 #69

I missed you JackRiddler. Octafish Jun 2013 #38

Hey... JackRiddler Jun 2013 #46

Have you heard about the latest in online presence tools? Octafish Jun 2013 #57

Exactly. HooptieWagon Jun 2013 #77

It's plain as day jsr Jun 2013 #85

Pretty much. JackRiddler Jun 2013 #94

I wish I could pin this to the top of the forum. LWolf Jun 2013 #47

Thanks. JackRiddler Jun 2013 #52

rec! SammyWinstonJack Jun 2013 #60

Thanks! JackRiddler Jun 2013 #62

People are not naive. felix_numinous Jun 2013 #61

bump JackRiddler Jun 2013 #65

They're not just rationalizing it, they're embracing it. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #66

But only as long as a "D" is president. JackRiddler Jun 2013 #70

And both puppets of Wall St, OilCo, AgriCo, MIC, etc. HooptieWagon Jun 2013 #86

+++++so many good points marions ghost Jun 2013 #71

Excellent post -- thank you! n/t markpkessinger Jun 2013 #72

Oh, sure. I bet you'd just LET granny smoke that joint, instead of dragging her ass to jail. Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #73

k & r . . . . .n/t annabanana Jun 2013 #83

It's not naive if one *is* an authoritarian in the first place. Rod Walker Jun 2013 #87

Most of them are followers, of course. JackRiddler Jun 2013 #88

Today, I've decided that this is still true. JackRiddler Jun 2013 #91

Oh look, the next day bump. JackRiddler Jun 2013 #92

Did I say #Snowden yet? JackRiddler Jun 2013 #95

98 recs! Thanks DU! JackRiddler Jun 2013 #96

oops JackRiddler Jun 2013 #97