Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

thucythucy

(9,103 posts)
102. If another 9-11 happens
Thu Jun 13, 2013, 12:21 PM
Jun 2013

the authoritarian state will inevitably follow.

Look what happened after the last 9-11: the Patriot Act, warrant-less wire-tapping, water boarding, "watch what you say and do," not to mention the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq and the exponential growth of the national security apparatus. A successful attack on the scale of 9-11 on Obama's watch would be the end of progressive Democratic hopes for at least a generation. "They let the terrorists win" would be the GOP slogan from now into the 2050s, trumpeted by the corporate media, repeated unto death by talk radio.

It's a dilemma: we absolutely need to thwart another major terrorist attack as a way of defending our civil liberties (not to mention the lives of potential victims), and yet in order to do so we seem invariably to compromise those very same liberties.

Of course, if we had a genuine opposition party interested in having a rational debate--instead of a right wing cabal desperate for any advantage in its quest for absolute power--we might be able as a society to think this through and arrive at some sort of adequate protection of both our national security AND our civil liberties. But as things stand now, it ain't gonna happen any time soon.

President Obama is definitely between a rock and a hard place on this one. Diminish the national security state by one iota, and if there IS a successful attack he'll get the blame--even if what he cuts has nothing to do with keeping us safe. In which case the outright and up front authoritarians take total charge, as they did under Bush/Cheney. Or leave the mechanisms of potential authoritarianism intact, and risk their further development as instruments of repression anyway.

In some ways this is analogous to what Democrats faced in the 1950s. After a decade of the "soft on communism" charge, the only way a Democrat could win in 1960 was to out cold warrior the cold warriors. Hence, JFK with his non-existent "missile gap," his belligerent anti-Castro rhetoric, his uptick in Vietnam.

So it's damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I wish I could see an easy way out of this, but I don't.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Better 911 than living in an authoritarian state. dkf Jun 2013 #1
+1 Llewlladdwr Jun 2013 #2
I'm Surprised at how many "REgressives" Wants...... Grassy Knoll Jun 2013 #11
I will always root for tyranny to fail. Llewlladdwr Jun 2013 #41
+100! im1013 Jun 2013 #77
3000 Americans Dead?........ Grassy Knoll Jun 2013 #8
In 2011 32,367 Americans died in car crashes. Do you advocate the end of the automobile? Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #9
I'm guessing you're against gun control too then. JaneyVee Jun 2013 #19
Why would you think that? Can't you read? Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #24
Wow, so many strawmen in that argument it may be a fire hazard. JaneyVee Jun 2013 #29
You come at me with accusations based on nothing and you call strawman? Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #36
I didn't 'come at you' with accusations. I wrote 'assuming' based on the JaneyVee Jun 2013 #38
I don't know what right wingers say, that's your trip and your projection Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #50
I see the mix-up here, I forgot a question mark at the end of my sentence. JaneyVee Jun 2013 #91
good grief.. Republican logic. DCBob Jun 2013 #85
People die to fight off oppressive authoritarian states. dkf Jun 2013 #10
In What way does this compare to killing 3000 americans ? Grassy Knoll Jun 2013 #27
People die fighting for them too Progressive dog Jun 2013 #42
Yes we are pretty far from being authoritarian and we need to keep it that way. dkf Jun 2013 #48
America was created to ward off an authoritarian state. Live and Learn Jun 2013 #60
3000 Americans dead versus the violation of the Constitution. JDPriestly Jun 2013 #63
Between 30,000 and 40,000 are killed by guns malaise Jun 2013 #88
America is run by Majority. Lady Freedom Returns Jun 2013 #26
then you won't have a problem the next time a majority of americans vote a republian into the WH.. frylock Jun 2013 #39
I can work to stop a Repuke from getting in. Lady Freedom Returns Jun 2013 #45
It would not surprise me if another Bush became president. Or if a person with many Repub values AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #72
When it comes to our Constitutional rights, the majority should not win. Laelth Jun 2013 #83
Had a lot of Republican Presidents. Progressive dog Jun 2013 #52
I'd take a look at the word 'acceptable' before getting too excited about that Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #53
And another poll this week said exactly the opposite. SO WHAT? woo me with science Jun 2013 #65
A-fucking-men! Time to live like Americans instead of cowards. n/t backscatter712 Jun 2013 #28
+1,000,000!!! im1013 Jun 2013 #78
How does it? treestar Jun 2013 #49
Agree 100% n/t ChazII Jun 2013 #56
It's not either/or -- one extreme or the other. n/t pnwmom Jun 2013 #66
k&r avaistheone1 Jun 2013 #75
This message was self-deleted by its author avaistheone1 Jun 2013 #76
Wow, unbelievable. Words fail me. but I will try anyhow...NO NO NO NO NO NO NO new 9-11 graham4anything Jun 2013 #79
huh?? DCBob Jun 2013 #86
Would you make that trade-off with the life of your child? One of the 99 Jun 2013 #92
It's moot...I don't have kids. dkf Jun 2013 #93
That explains a lot. One of the 99 Jun 2013 #94
If I had kids I would be more willing to sacrifice myself so they don't have to live like that. dkf Jun 2013 #99
But would you sacrifice them? nt One of the 99 Jun 2013 #100
You ever drive your kid to baseball practice on public roads? Romulus Quirinus Jun 2013 #108
Is there a point? One of the 99 Jun 2013 #114
By participating in the public road system Romulus Quirinus Jun 2013 #119
Total nonsense. One of the 99 Jun 2013 #123
How is it not comparable? Romulus Quirinus Jun 2013 #125
Because it is not. One of the 99 Jun 2013 #128
Please, explain like I'm five. nt Romulus Quirinus Jun 2013 #129
No. I'm not here to explain things to you. One of the 99 Jun 2013 #130
Let's unring this bell. I think we are speaking past each other. Romulus Quirinus Jun 2013 #134
It's still a strawman argument. One of the 99 Jun 2013 #137
One is equally dead either way. Romulus Quirinus Jun 2013 #139
That's not the point One of the 99 Jun 2013 #140
I'm sorry, I don't. :/ nt Romulus Quirinus Jun 2013 #141
Yes you do. One of the 99 Jun 2013 #142
Brother, I wish I did understand what you're thinking. Romulus Quirinus Jun 2013 #143
Not hard to understand. One of the 99 Jun 2013 #144
Given recent events, I think crazy people with AR-15s are more of a threat to kids than terrorism. Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #110
Very true. One of the 99 Jun 2013 #115
Except a great deal of this crap has been done under the auspices of the Patriot Act. Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #117
You have a good point. One of the 99 Jun 2013 #122
Ding Ding Ding Floyd_Gondolli Jun 2013 #97
If another 9-11 happens thucythucy Jun 2013 #102
Question leftynyc Jun 2013 #138
Well of course not MNBrewer Jun 2013 #3
Maybe FDR isn't the best example. BlueCheese Jun 2013 #4
I thought about that as I typed his name MNBrewer Jun 2013 #5
It is our history, part of the WW2 era civil liberties story is the limited duration Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #18
We also had an Institute of Propaganda Analysis. OnyxCollie Jun 2013 #73
No, but it was notably both reprehensible and perfectly legal. Robb Jun 2013 #20
I disagree. Raine1967 Jun 2013 #43
It was done for economic reasons. OnyxCollie Jun 2013 #71
There was quite a vigorous (and sometimes illegal) thucythucy Jun 2013 #103
he doesn't want an emergency number on his watch? niyad Jun 2013 #6
So he flew the NSA into the Constitution. kenny blankenship Jun 2013 #7
For the record, he did not start it nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #14
For the record he became President and CIC on Jan. 20, 2009. former9thward Jun 2013 #37
That would be authoritarianism treestar Jun 2013 #46
The President is not compelled to run these programs, the law allows for them. TheKentuckian Jun 2013 #74
When does the war with North Korea start? Floyd_Gondolli Jun 2013 #98
He'd be a twisted fuck indeed if he wanted one, don't you think? Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #12
LOL I was thinking "How profound" when I read the OP. cherokeeprogressive Jun 2013 #21
they have always snooped for years Rosa Luxemburg Jun 2013 #13
Take my word on this, nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #15
If you lived under McCarthy Rosa Luxemburg Jun 2013 #17
Yeah, but that was not done in secret nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #22
ther was a lot done in secret in those days Rosa Luxemburg Jun 2013 #32
Yes, but I am telling you, this is on steroids. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #34
It's not that people want Obama to fail... truth2power Jun 2013 #16
Bush got re-elected with one on his watch? kentuck Jun 2013 #23
Exactly. If we have another 911, he would have to spy on us even more. Dr Fate Jun 2013 #25
He has to spy on everyone because if he didn't he'd have to spy on everyone even more? Electric Monk Jun 2013 #33
Excuse me while I go vomit. Gravitycollapse Jun 2013 #30
This spying is about corporate $$$$$ and power, not terrorism. nt woo me with science Jun 2013 #31
The ends do not justify the means. Fearless Jun 2013 #35
I can respect this theory think Jun 2013 #40
a noun, a verb, and 9/11.. frylock Jun 2013 #44
Terra! Terra! woo me with science Jun 2013 #68
More accurately, Obama doesn't want to run the risk of being smeared for reining in this program BlueStreak Jun 2013 #47
Thank you for posting that, Grassy Knoll.. I know Cha Jun 2013 #51
I think there is some truth to this sentiment but ... jimlup Jun 2013 #54
Yes, this is what I feel too flamingdem Jun 2013 #55
As long as it has a "D" next to his name, I'm cool with it. But when the "R"s are in charge again neverforget Jun 2013 #57
The trouble with thinking of this only politically will be our downfall. This is our only chance. kickysnana Jun 2013 #58
It you can't get a sip from a fire hose, squandering money to build a spy Niagara Falls is wasteful. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #59
Great post. nt woo me with science Jun 2013 #69
This program violates the Constitution in my opinion. Therefore, in JDPriestly Jun 2013 #61
+100000000000000 woo me with science Jun 2013 #70
Finding the right balance of security and personal freedoms Jamaal510 Jun 2013 #62
+1. n/t pnwmom Jun 2013 #67
we could stop child abuse by putting digital cameras and microphones in every house in America Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #64
What would he need one for? MrSlayer Jun 2013 #80
Exactly! ForeignandDomestic Jun 2013 #81
Indeed. I suspect the President is concerned about that. Laelth Jun 2013 #82
Any and all happenings that are perceived as bad is Obama's fault madokie Jun 2013 #84
While visions of mushroom clouds danced in their heads... theHandpuppet Jun 2013 #87
Well of course.. who would. DCBob Jun 2013 #89
If you and others did Hydra Jun 2013 #104
And if you didnt.. DCBob Jun 2013 #106
And if I didn't Hydra Jun 2013 #107
President Obama is not breaking any laws.. DCBob Jun 2013 #111
Uh, yes he is Hydra Jun 2013 #112
I disagree. DCBob Jun 2013 #113
Feel free to disagree Hydra Jun 2013 #116
see below.. DCBob Jun 2013 #118
I just wasted 4 minutes of my life Hydra Jun 2013 #120
Time is a terrible thing to waste! DCBob Jun 2013 #136
He had better decide what influences our relationship with the rest of the world, then... MrMickeysMom Jun 2013 #90
Yeah, because 911 was bush's fault. Autumn Jun 2013 #95
to paraphrase george carlin: datasuspect Jun 2013 #96
If Bush had simply heeded the warnings in the August 6th PDB, he may have prevented 9/11. Sheldon Cooper Jun 2013 #101
He doesn't seem to want anything on his watch, particularly. sibelian Jun 2013 #105
Good. So when a daily brief appears on his desk that says "Bin Laden to attack US with Planes" SomethingFishy Jun 2013 #109
I don't want another 9/11 burnodo Jun 2013 #121
and Bush didn't want another one.. allin99 Jun 2013 #124
but why now - only because there is big election coming up in 2014 Rosa Luxemburg Jun 2013 #126
Yep, If you look around..... Grassy Knoll Jun 2013 #131
I think we should remind them of recent history Rosa Luxemburg Jun 2013 #132
Good luck with that....... Grassy Knoll Jun 2013 #135
Sean Hannity is that you again? MichiganVote Jun 2013 #127
Really?........ Grassy Knoll Jun 2013 #133
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»I Think Obama Doesn't Wan...»Reply #102