General Discussion

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)

51. That is not an argument. Plenty of laws are upheld as well. You have no basis for your assertions.

Reply to ohheckyeah (Reply #48)

Thu Jun 13, 2013, 09:35 PM

Jun 2013

You don't even understand why the appeals courts consider these cases an exception to the fourth amendment.

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Want proof that NSA snooping thwarts terror plots? Stand by, Senator Feinstein says [View all] Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 OP

I honestly don't care. It still wouldn't make it legal or moral. nt Live and Learn Jun 2013 #1

Legal? Well it's looks like it was legal Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 #4

It is unconstitutional which makes it illegal. nt Live and Learn Jun 2013 #7

How come the Federal Judges on the FISA court didn't say it was unconstitutional? Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 #8

It's not Unconstitutional. I explained this all here with appeals court case citations stevenleser Jun 2013 #11

thanks for that info nt steve2470 Jun 2013 #18

If the court says the sky is red, I will still know it is blue. Live and Learn Jun 2013 #20

Unless you are a Constitutional Law expert, you don't have the expertise to interpret it. stevenleser Jun 2013 #24

Unless you are an Authoritarian tool... 99Forever Jun 2013 #63

As your entire post is ad-hominem and devoid of facts, you are acknowledging I'm right. stevenleser Jun 2013 #64

"Authoritarian"!!! That's the battle cry of the Cha Jun 2013 #79

This tactic always amuses me. woo me with science Jun 2013 #97

Bacon? snooper2 Jun 2013 #66

Right on 99 Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #108

Article III courts are not in charge of sky color, but they are in charge of consitutionality arely staircase Jun 2013 #30

how many on here would agree with the courts that Citizens United is constitutional? liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #90

The federal courts also upheld laws ohheckyeah Jun 2013 #26

they are the keepers of what is constitutional arely staircase Jun 2013 #31

No, not really. ohheckyeah Jun 2013 #33

by the courts arely staircase Jun 2013 #34

No, first by society who in turns puts the pressure on the courts. ohheckyeah Jun 2013 #40

It has nothing to do with "authoritarian" any more than the "Yelling Fire in a Crowded Theater" stevenleser Jun 2013 #49

So they were wrong, and reversed themselves treestar Jun 2013 #38

So, whose to say they aren't screwing up now? ohheckyeah Jun 2013 #39

They might be treestar Jun 2013 #101

They did rule DOJ behaved unconstitutionally, as late as 2011. DirkGently Jun 2013 #58

It's not unconstitutional. Appeals courts have ruled on this again, and again. And the SCOTUS stevenleser Jun 2013 #9

The courts are wrong, just as they have been ohheckyeah Jun 2013 #41

No, they're not, just like the fire in a crowded theater exemption to the 1st amendment isnt wrong. stevenleser Jun 2013 #44

Nope..... ohheckyeah Jun 2013 #47

Wild rhetoric is not a substitute for an argument on Constitutional law. stevenleser Jun 2013 #50

I don't care if you think the argument is valid or not. ohheckyeah Jun 2013 #53

I figured out that you didn't care about the facts long ago. No need to point it out. stevenleser Jun 2013 #65

You're just so clever. ohheckyeah Jun 2013 #67

Keep telling yourself folks with the facts on their side are wrong and your suppositions are right stevenleser Jun 2013 #70

I'm doing real well in life, thank you. ohheckyeah Jun 2013 #73

The OP tends to ignore the fact that the FISA court already ruled that the NSA broke law think Jun 2013 #84

One request for a warrant among thousands apparently exceeded FISA. Your point is not made. stevenleser Jun 2013 #103

And they are trying Aerows Jun 2013 #107

And now you distort the nature of the NSA law breaking to fit your meme think Jun 2013 #112

The SCOTUS would have to decide that.. DCBob Jun 2013 #10

And the SCOTUS repeatedly has denied cert. on these cases. They think the appeals courts decisions stevenleser Jun 2013 #14

Thats what I thought.. thanks for the clarification. DCBob Jun 2013 #25

The Supreme Court either hears or does not hear a case based on what they want to rule on indepat Jun 2013 #37

The SCOTUS denying cert goes back 60+ years on these issues. That's way beyond the current court. stevenleser Jun 2013 #45

It's not unconstitutional till there is a final court ruling that it's unconstitutional. pnwmom Jun 2013 #13

Actually these cases have come before fed. appeals courts a lot and FISA has been upheld, AND... stevenleser Jun 2013 #15

Thank you. I should have said that it hasn't been found unconstitutional pnwmom Jun 2013 #21

Except you're wrong about that, as you know. DirkGently Jun 2013 #59

It is rather disingenuous that some here refuse to acknowledge this fact think Jun 2013 #82

You know that prosecutors are denied some percentage of warrants all the time, right? stevenleser Jun 2013 #104

The word "warrant" isn't even mentioned in the article. Nor any of the other articles posted think Jun 2013 #113

It proves the administration thinks it doesn't have to discuss it. DirkGently Jun 2013 #116

There is never an end to this process. JackRiddler Jun 2013 #19

Wrong. ohheckyeah Jun 2013 #43

No, its not Unconstitutional. nt stevenleser Jun 2013 #46

That's what many people ohheckyeah Jun 2013 #48

That is not an argument. Plenty of laws are upheld as well. You have no basis for your assertions. stevenleser Jun 2013 #51

LOL ohheckyeah Jun 2013 #52

I know, you dont give a darn about the facts. You keep proving that over and over. nt stevenleser Jun 2013 #68

Unconstitutional = illegal even if it's a "law." JackRiddler Jun 2013 #16

Not really. The appeals courts rulings on this have said that as long as the target is a person or stevenleser Jun 2013 #22

You're mischaracterizing the entire issue. DirkGently Jun 2013 #60

No, I'm not. You don't understand what that means. stevenleser Jun 2013 #62

That's a mile of copypasta that says we have a FISA law. DirkGently Jun 2013 #115

No, no, and no. Your entire argument boils down to ignoring 60+ years of caselaw and stevenleser Jun 2013 #117

How then did the NSA break the law under both Bush & Obama? DirkGently Jun 2013 #118

"In the eye of the beholder" sibelian Jun 2013 #94

chef feinstein will reveal the meal as soon as the books are cooked enough nt msongs Jun 2013 #2

I think we'll get a bunch of paper with everything but the words "and" and "the" redacted. cherokeeprogressive Jun 2013 #69

after all the lies, why SHOULD we believe the intel industry now? grasswire Jun 2013 #3

please protect me from the terrorists markiv Jun 2013 #5

eh. SammyWinstonJack Jun 2013 #12

So it sounds like they're letting Snowden/Greenwald force their hand? Tsk, tsk... ;) reformist2 Jun 2013 #6

FBI initiated 17 attacks Eddie Haskell Jun 2013 #17

Maybe they should do both. hrmjustin Jun 2013 #32

Like a definitive list of all the pot smoking cancer grannies the patriot act has caught? Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #23

Hmmmmmm well it didn't stop the Bostan bombings. nt Raine Jun 2013 #27

Nothing will stop everything....were you expecting something to? VanillaRhapsody Jun 2013 #35

No, I was being sarcastic. nt Raine Jun 2013 #121

DiFi is as dirty as they come Vinnie From Indy Jun 2013 #28

She is a vile piece of shit. Senator War Profiteer. That she chairs the intelligence committee is cali Jun 2013 #88

Look forward to hearing about this. BenzoDia Jun 2013 #29

Why? How would it make this attack on civil liberties any less vile? bowens43 Jun 2013 #55

I'm always willing to listen to someone's side of anything. BenzoDia Jun 2013 #56

You can note there is a real fear there about this information. It runs through responses to this OP stevenleser Jun 2013 #72

An ideology that is uncomfortable with mass snooping of noncriminal American's information? Scootaloo Jun 2013 #81

An ideology that depends on denial of facts & characterization of any contrary information as "lies" stevenleser Jun 2013 #105

Agreed. This fear of being wrong is really amazing to observe. BenzoDia Jun 2013 #99

It depends on what we're supposed to be listening to, sibelian Jun 2013 #95

Well we'll be listening to something of great interest to all of us. BenzoDia Jun 2013 #110

Oh great: Sen. Dianne Feinstein claims that we need to surrender our privacy. cpwm17 Jun 2013 #36

If the information is to be declassified, was it improperly classified from the start? DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #42

It doesnt matter whether or not it has stopped attacks bowens43 Jun 2013 #54

Right. We're told waterboarding & racial profiling work, too. DirkGently Jun 2013 #57

Senators Mark Udall and Ron Wyden call bullshit on claim metadata collection thwarted attacks Melinda Jun 2013 #61

Haven't you heard? Wyden and Udall are right wing shills. cherokeeprogressive Jun 2013 #71

Who said they are right wing shills? Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 #86

I'll go with Wyden on this. hay rick Jun 2013 #75

Well, it sure stopped the Boston Marathon bombings The Second Stone Jun 2013 #74

You are demanding absolute 100% efficiency. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #109

It really doesn't matter to me whether it thwarted terror attacks or not. Ms. Toad Jun 2013 #76

DiFi and Clapper...and CYA. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #77

Udall/Wyden say they have not seen any evidence NSA program has uniquely provided valuable intel dkf Jun 2013 #78

They stopped that criminal mastermind Doc_Technical Jun 2013 #80

Bullshit mick063 Jun 2013 #83

Spying upon, beating up and jailing Occupy Wall Street doesn't count. n/t Fire Walk With Me Jun 2013 #85

I stand with Feinstein 420superstoned420 Jun 2013 #87

Keep smoking. GeorgeGist Jun 2013 #89

WOW Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 #91

Enjoy your stay. JHB Jun 2013 #111

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #114

So you think you've got the solution. It's not Democratic, is it? Judi Lynn Jun 2013 #119

The posts on this thread disgust me. I am no longer a democrat. This democratic party is liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #92

I'm sorry to hear that Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 #93

Bye bye. sibelian Jun 2013 #96

So sad. Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #106

"locking up Japanese-Americans was effective, there were no incidents of sabotage" Spider Jerusalem Jun 2013 #98

If DiFi said it was raining, I'd go and open the door and look outside. hobbit709 Jun 2013 #100

The outraged demanded to see proof the program has worked ... now that it looks like JoePhilly Jun 2013 #102

No. We want proof of what they are collecting marions ghost Jun 2013 #120