General Discussion

ProSense

(116,464 posts)

24. You have people

Fri Jun 14, 2013, 01:41 AM

Jun 2013

trying to dismiss the relevance of this aspect of the story that has now been exposed as inaccurate when in fact, this was the alleged bombshell that exploded the story and caused many to overlook that the appropriate steps were taken, warrants and the FISA court.

In the frenzy that followed, people began pushing science fiction (literally) as fact. Everyone knew about the NSA program, and the secrecy of the FISA court is not breaking news, unless this is 1980.

The aspect of the information that fell apart is the difference “between a bombshell and a yawn of a story.”
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023012813

There is another aspect of this leak that is still suspect: the China/Hong Kong connection. One has to wonder about the original motive.

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Snowden and Greenwald Beginning to Self-Destruct; �The Nation� and �Mother Jones� Raise Questions [View all] flamingdem Jun 2013 OP

The bottom line, to me, is that there is no doub that NSA not only has access to, MotherPetrie Jun 2013 #1

The information has not been covered up brush Jun 2013 #12

Bullshit. Th1onein Jun 2013 #53

He leaked classified documents leftynyc Jun 2013 #63

Sorry. Mis-post. n/t Laelth Jun 2013 #81

They've been after him since the first story, which held nothing classified but that they were Th1onein Jun 2013 #94

LOL - oh, a lecture leftynyc Jun 2013 #97

Make up your mind: Are we talking about me or about Snowden? Th1onein Jun 2013 #182

Snowden got snowjobbed by Greenwald Abukhatar Jun 2013 #179

On evidence more effort went into that dud of a pun... JackRiddler Jun 2013 #194

Oh golly, the government's been violating the constitution for years! JackRiddler Jun 2013 #191

I don't know what you mean by "every piece of electronic communication." They only pnwmom Jun 2013 #32

Just for clarification, Snowden leaked evidence about two NSA programs. Laelth Jun 2013 #82

"tap into the servers of nine US Internet comparies, extracting . . ." geek tragedy Jun 2013 #96

it has not been debunked questionseverything Jun 2013 #116

The difference goes well beyond that. geek tragedy Jun 2013 #119

booz allen is the middle man doing the access for the gov't questionseverything Jun 2013 #127

The question is whether anyone other than Apple has direct geek tragedy Jun 2013 #131

Yes, it has. It only applies to specific targets OUTSIDE the U.S. pnwmom Jun 2013 #126

Actually,this is outdated information. pnwmom Jun 2013 #124

Not only is there "doubt" of that... gcomeau Jun 2013 #34

Quite true and that information is held on computers owned by intaglio Jun 2013 #58

Hear Hear, Sir The Magistrate Jun 2013 #73

OMG! Sanity!!! +1 n/t Benton D Struckcheon Jun 2013 #78

+1000000 Champion Jack Jun 2013 #85

hear, hear! flamingdem Jun 2013 #111

The reactionary left are played like fucking fiddles on a regular basis redqueen Jun 2013 #141

That's what 'reactionaries' do, react--by foaming at the mouth Surya Gayatri Jun 2013 #149

misuse of the word 'reactionary' can confuse tiny elvis Jun 2013 #190

I think I love you, oh great Magistrate! Surya Gayatri Jun 2013 #148

Are you accusing some here of being duped by a former Cato Institute and Koch Brothers employee Ikonoklast Jun 2013 #196

Really well said... SidDithers Jun 2013 #83

the kneejerking is done by Obama fans who give him a pass because he's supposedly a Dem instead MotherPetrie Jun 2013 #92

"Obama fans" Old and In the Way Jun 2013 #145

Sorry, but recognising reality is what you need to display intaglio Jun 2013 #162

Well Done, Sir, Well Done! Skraxx Jun 2013 #99

Greenwald thought he saw a sore spot in the Liberal Left and he is trying to VanillaRhapsody Jun 2013 #104

Yes, he poured iodine into that spot flamingdem Jun 2013 #113

+1000 Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #120

Thank you - this is the crux of the issue CakeGrrl Jun 2013 #125

You are now the unsung hero of this thread, intaglio... Surya Gayatri Jun 2013 #146

Self Delete - dupe Surya Gayatri Jun 2013 #147

Well here is a fucking good idea! Vinnie From Indy Jun 2013 #158

The issue of collection of metadata has, I believe, been tested, in court, intaglio Jun 2013 #171

Speaking of dupes Vinnie From Indy Jun 2013 #173

I have not claimed omniscience intaglio Jun 2013 #174

One might ask at what point will your sensibilities be aroused? Vinnie From Indy Jun 2013 #175

My sensibilities were aroused about 42 years ago intaglio Jun 2013 #193

I apologize for putting words in your mouth Vinnie From Indy Jun 2013 #195

No problem intaglio Jun 2013 #197

+ 2.73eBazillion Phillip McCleod Jun 2013 #181

Thank you for spelling it out. nt redqueen Jun 2013 #164

Precisely. aquart Jun 2013 #180

Amazing post. Amazing Number23 Jun 2013 #185

It doesn't "have" it... VanillaRhapsody Jun 2013 #102

Yep. Here's the dirty little secret of any justice system: If you give the cops Zorra Jun 2013 #107

Do you have an example of where the technology being discussed flamingdem Jun 2013 #118

You're deciding who's an "innocent" now? Corruption Inc Jun 2013 #172

they have no clue, do they? Skittles Jun 2013 #184

"the justice industry" OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #144

lets just kill them and get it over with backwoodsbob Jun 2013 #2

you know nothing about it. Cha Jun 2013 #5

if you say so backwoodsbob Jun 2013 #6

just as it seems to be yours i believe Bodhi BloodWave Jun 2013 #70

Greenwald took a lot of liberties with the truth it seems madokie Jun 2013 #3

I wonder if he is as dumb as it seems not to understand flamingdem Jun 2013 #4

This isn't the first time. You'd think Cha Jun 2013 #7

So Greenwald has used a technical blurry area to push his articles before? flamingdem Jun 2013 #9

hmm, USB thumb or 4 laptops? both? Whisp Jun 2013 #13

The Guardian may end up looking very bad as well flamingdem Jun 2013 #14

Rupert Murdoch dmr Jun 2013 #41

I used to work for the Guardian in the USA flamingdem Jun 2013 #115

Lesson? dmr Jun 2013 #166

Oh, okay, I'm seeing most posts as an attack apparently! flamingdem Jun 2013 #167

Then we're on the same page. dmr Jun 2013 #168

whew! flamingdem Jun 2013 #169

Help me out here. Didn't Feinstein just say the same thing as Snowden? reusrename Jun 2013 #43

This? madokie Jun 2013 #60

Spy Nation: bloomberg.com seems to think otherwise Monkie Jun 2013 #75

I've said before and I'll say again madokie Jun 2013 #76

How long was he going to keep up this charade flamingdem Jun 2013 #8

" . . .Greenwald weaseled around the questions . . ." Major Hogwash Jun 2013 #10

It's not about them. It's about a rubber stamp court that permits the government to liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #11

You want there to still be a 4th Amendment!? Why, you pearl-clutching unicorn-herder! villager Jun 2013 #15

We may benefit from a review of what's going on flamingdem Jun 2013 #16

that's a bit obvious. There's a million may or may nots in this life. A million what ifs. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #17

But that story broke years ago flamingdem Jun 2013 #19

I don't care when it broke. We need to put pressure on our government to stop spying on citizens. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #21

But that's all of the time and as we know flamingdem Jun 2013 #25

I don't give a s**t what Greenwald said. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #30

Oh, I don't know Abq_Sarah Jun 2013 #27

Always ask the CUI BONO questions. MADem Jun 2013 #55

The Chinese AND the GOP have benefitted. stevenleser Jun 2013 #93

Yes it's more of a symphony than a barn dance flamingdem Jun 2013 #123

Precisely--and the timing of the release of info (which Snowden insisted upon) had to be precise. MADem Jun 2013 #157

"many of whom seemed to be in deep hibernation before this incident" redqueen Jun 2013 #161

If China (via their reps in Hong Kong) doesn't put him on a plane back.. flamingdem Jun 2013 #163

Hong Kong's autonomy has been eroding as time passes. MADem Jun 2013 #165

^^^This!^^^ Surya Gayatri Jun 2013 #156

Precisely. nt redqueen Jun 2013 #160

The Chinese and Cha Jun 2013 #192

No. The FISA Court even denied a warrant on Tamerlan Tsarnaev, DevonRex Jun 2013 #18

but they're willing to approve collecting phone data on millions ordinary average American liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #26

Of course they did. They didn't have the evidence without Russian DevonRex Jun 2013 #40

They have data on telephone numbers made by ordinary citizens with no probable cause. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #44

Consensus is growing around fact Greenwald/Snowden wrong on "direct access" frazzled Jun 2013 #20

Thanks. It's crazy it got so far without this detail being explored flamingdem Jun 2013 #22

data is transmitted using the companies servers with FTP access - not accessing ! flamingdem Jun 2013 #23

Yeah, I'm a total tech dummy and I understand the difference frazzled Jun 2013 #29

Hey. That's useful info... SidDithers Jun 2013 #84

Here's a thread with clues frazzled Jun 2013 #98

You need to explain to us how you're sure that this is about FTP muriel_volestrangler Jun 2013 #71

I don't really understand this. Here is what Feinstein just said after the secret briefing: reusrename Jun 2013 #47

Phone records aren't the issue here frazzled Jun 2013 #103

Isn't it well documented that they have both? reusrename Jun 2013 #106

Unfortunately, the Hair on Fire crowd have already put on a helluva light show, MADem Jun 2013 #56

They must enjoy the smell. OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #138

LOL! And are 'you' really who you claim to be? randome Jun 2013 #139

haha! n/t Whisp Jun 2013 #140

You have people ProSense Jun 2013 #24

I don't care when the news broke. I don't care that it is legal. It is unconstitutional and therefor liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #28

Can you ProSense Jun 2013 #31

They can get phone numbers I have called from the phone companies when they have no liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #36

Not everyone is down with this Abq_Sarah Jun 2013 #38

If you're "no longer a democrat" then you haven't been one since the late seventies. MADem Jun 2013 #159

Smith v. Maryland was decided in 1979 JDPriestly Jun 2013 #37

Good points marions ghost Jun 2013 #189

here, G_j Jun 2013 #49

Sensible, indeed. aquart Jun 2013 #35

Actually, the Verizon story came first, got a big reaction, is a big deal. The PRISM story came Hissyspit Jun 2013 #52

There was quite a knee-jerk reaction here railsback Jun 2013 #33

Sounds likely! nt flamingdem Jun 2013 #133

Greenwald, unfortunately, will suffer no indignities. OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #143

This was in the Atlantic today octoberlib Jun 2013 #39

Then they should never have approved letting the government collect phone data on liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #45

Oh,I don't like it either. octoberlib Jun 2013 #48

Glenn Greenwald, Meet Jonathan Karl DallasNE Jun 2013 #42

I'm glad to see that there are credible journalists covering this loyalsister Jun 2013 #46

LOL. I'll file this under the "Greenwald is a hack" category. PSPS Jun 2013 #50

hoo boy! you guys don't just want to throw him under the bus. delrem Jun 2013 #51

Direct Access Is The One Thing That The Surveillance State Would Most Want To Bury cantbeserious Jun 2013 #54

Greenwald has been shouting "fire!" since January 20, 2009. ucrdem Jun 2013 #57

Eh, I was reading Greenwald at Unclaimed Territory before he went to Salon Fumesucker Jun 2013 #61

Let's put it this way, did he vote for Kerry in '04? Or any Democrat ever? ucrdem Jun 2013 #62

I have no idea who he voted for Fumesucker Jun 2013 #64

Ah yes well . . . ucrdem Jun 2013 #65

Not horse, woodchuck Fumesucker Jun 2013 #66

I feel their pain ucrdem Jun 2013 #68

oops ucrdem Jun 2013 #67

he sold more books during the Bush years Enrique Jun 2013 #80

Thanks for that list... ljm2002 Jun 2013 #112

Thanks Enrique. Some discussion of the early ouvre here: ucrdem Jun 2013 #176

"Move along. Nothing to see here. Pay no attention to the men behind the curtain." Ford_Prefect Jun 2013 #59

More like, 'Stop living in a Harry Potter fantasy and look at the real world's problems.' randome Jun 2013 #69

I thought the sarcasm was implied pretty clearly. Ford_Prefect Jun 2013 #72

No evidence to back up his claims. I think that's pretty simple. randome Jun 2013 #74

And you believe all that at face value? Ford_Prefect Jun 2013 #77

I don't believe anything someone says at face value. randome Jun 2013 #86

Amazing...it's your second Harry Potter post of the morning.... KoKo Jun 2013 #87

I'm fucking magical, aren't I? randome Jun 2013 #101

And...and "Energizer Bunny" for your cause... KoKo Jun 2013 #110

Companies that protest that the NSA does not have access to their data are lying. Laelth Jun 2013 #79

�direct access� description � only aspect � that was unknown prior = DU's instant reaction Coyotl Jun 2013 #88

This focus on Snowden and Greenwald takes away from the REAL Revelation... KoKo Jun 2013 #89

If Snowden had the access he claims, why not show us evidence? randome Jun 2013 #91

You might want to read this for background about Private Contractors... KoKo Jun 2013 #95

'Fuck privization!' seems to be the appropriate response. randome Jun 2013 #100

Jane Harman on Bloomberg Business this a.m. said: KoKo Jun 2013 #117

But that would require...{shudder}...SPENDING MONEY! randome Jun 2013 #122

Its becoming clear the Snowden "bombshell" is quickly becoming a dud. DCBob Jun 2013 #90

house democrat Sanchez says otherwise after secret briefings Monkie Jun 2013 #105

"What we learned" and then "I believe it's the tip of the iceberg". randome Jun 2013 #108

she! LOL! proven that you DID not even read the article or watch the video, that scared i see Monkie Jun 2013 #109

She says she learned significantly more. So what? That by itself means nothing. randome Jun 2013 #121

correct me if i am wrong, but you were the `body language` person? Monkie Jun 2013 #129

Did you see the Lawerence O'Donnell interview with Snowden's friend? randome Jun 2013 #134

its one thing a private person having to be careful, but a representative? Monkie Jun 2013 #136

Loretta is not the brightest bulb flamingdem Jun 2013 #135

Senator Tester says otherwise nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #132

A ridiculous headline... ljm2002 Jun 2013 #114

No they are not nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #128

Shabbily written. Quantess Jun 2013 #130

K&R... did you see the WSWS thread with the assertion that we MUST support Snowden, Assange, etc? redqueen Jun 2013 #137

I've actually seen people -- who don't know him, I am sure -- calling him "Ed." MADem Jun 2013 #150

Ok that's just weird. redqueen Jun 2013 #152

Do these people wear "Free Judy!" t-shirts? johnp3907 Jun 2013 #186

A mass movement of geek imposters flamingdem Jun 2013 #153

A mass movement of easily-led, cult of personality-worshipping reactionaries. nt redqueen Jun 2013 #155

you mean that wasn't satire JI7 Jun 2013 #183

I wish it was... it would be better if it was intentional. redqueen Jun 2013 #198

Something that sounds too good to be true usually is. nt riqster Jun 2013 #142

Greenwald has finally been hoisted on his own petard. MjolnirTime Jun 2013 #151

Too true flamingdem Jun 2013 #154

Another day, another McCarthy-like "hit piece" Corruption Inc Jun 2013 #170

That remark can be interpreted two ways, can't it? ucrdem Jun 2013 #177

most disgusting thread I've seen in 11 years on DU carolinayellowdog Jun 2013 #178

It Would Be Funny RobinA Jun 2013 #187

Greenwald should talk to Paul Ryan gulliver Jun 2013 #188