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In reply to the discussion: [Snowden]...Showed Hong Kong Newspaper Documents Revealing US Hacking Attacks On China (updated 2x) [View all]MADem
(135,425 posts)288. It wasn't a "guest speech," he was the pet liberal at the
benefactors' party.
The Exiled folks have absolute credibility regarding this story. They have chapter and verse. There is more, all over the net, too. GG shouldn't tell falsehoods in the digital age.
Here's CATO praising GG and touting some of their past history together--they even threw a "book event" for him (way back in 2007) ...hardly a casual relationship:
http://www.cato.org/blog/hat-tip-glenn-greenwald
I'm not the only one who is noticing that something is amiss:
http://thedailybanter.com/2013/06/greenwald-sticks-with-his-story-in-spite-of-growing-questions/
...1. Why hasnt Greenwald clarified his direct access to servers language from last weeks PRISM report?
Multiple other news outlets have provided information debunking the notion that the NSA had unfettered back door access to servers belonging to the various tech giants named in the PRISM slides. The New York Times described a process whereby the various tech companies, after receiving a FISA court approved request from the NSA and vetting it through their legal departments, gather the information and post it in a virtual mailbox for the NSA to retrieve: It is not sent automatically or in bulk, and the government does not have full access to company servers. Instead, they said, it is a more secure and efficient way to hand over the data.
You know what this is? It sounds like an FTP server to me, not unlike Dropbox. This is how many of us transfer digital files that are too large for email. The NSA apparently doesnt enjoy a free pass to directly grab up server data at will instead, it merely downloads it from an FTP server (or similar) after its been placed there by the tech company that set it up for them. Again, this undercuts one of the most outrage-inducing aspects of Greenwalds story, not to mention the initial Washington Post reporting as well. The NSA doesnt have direct access to anything other than an innocuous file transfer mailbox. But direct access sounds sexier and therefore feeds the outrage agenda.
2. Why hasnt Greenwald posted more technical details?
This is perhaps one of the most frequently discussed head-scratchers circulating around these stories. Greenwald has been communicating with an ostensibly tech savvy source who could easily summarize some of the above details about mailboxes and data transfers. Maybe not all of the incomprehensible computer jargon, but at least an overview of the IT side of the process. It seems to me that a story this dependent upon complex technology would include a sidebar with more specifics about the operations functionality, enabling IT experts to vet Snowdens claims, further legitimizing his role and status. Technical vetting might also answer other questions: Could Snowden wiretap anyone including the president? Could Snowden really access any CIA station (only slightly less far-fetched-sounding than saying hes bionic, too)? This disclosure of key technical specifications never happened. In fact, Greenwald hasnt said whether Snowdens information was subjected to any technical vetting at all, independent or otherwise.
Additionally, Snowden chose to speak with two separate news outlets. So why didnt he also contact one of the many tech news sites like BoingBoing, Slashdot or Wired? Why did he choose someone, Greenwald, whos admitted to being an IT neophyte? If a whistleblower from Big Pharma came to me with information about a drug that was chemically castrating people, I would take the whistleblowers information to an expert for at least cursory technical vetting to make sure the source wasnt a crank. Journalism 101. But it didnt happen here. Why?
3. Why did Greenwald exaggerate the scope of his Verizon story?
Yesterday on Twitter, Greenwald wrote that nobody thought the USA PATRIOT Act enabled bulk collection of all Americans records. Another Twitter user replied, You mean some of not all. Unless you have something else to share? Greenwalds response? The program we exposed is the collection of all Americans phone records. Unless I missed a revelation in Greenwalds reporting, and I dont think I have, this is an untrue statement. The program he described last week, prior to his PRISM reporting, had to do with the NSAs collection of Verizon phone records for a span of three months. Unless all Americans take Verizon as their phone provivder, Greenwald was wrong. But this is how his agenda seeps into his reporting. It begins with Verizon customers then morphs into everyone, and outrage ensues with hyperbole growing rapidly into groupthink reality. Yes, other reports indicate that the NSA likely collected mobile data from other carriers, but again, this is hardly indicates all Americans.
More questions....
His reporting is poor, his bias is evident, and his associations are suspect. He's hit a trifecta with me, and he's in the "Heckuvajob" club, AFAIAC. He's not an honest broker.
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[Snowden]...Showed Hong Kong Newspaper Documents Revealing US Hacking Attacks On China (updated 2x) [View all]
ProSense
Jun 2013
OP
This is the Chinese trump card to deal with US pressure on cyber security - he'll be China honored
JackN415
Jun 2013
#113
So you blame Snowden for trying to do something about the unemployment rate???
randome
Jun 2013
#231
His insistence on the story breaking right when Obama was meeting with the new Chinese leader
MADem
Jun 2013
#306
As what the government is doing is legal under the Patriot Act, he was always a leaker, not
Windy
Jun 2013
#229
You can't do that... there is specific criteria under the Whistleblower Protection Act. NT
Windy
Jun 2013
#235
He's in China, seeking the protection of the Chinese government, providing them
geek tragedy
Jun 2013
#272
I see what you're saying--at the end of the day six of one, half dozen of the other.
geek tragedy
Jun 2013
#304
I just mean that China would have kept him at a long distance if he had contacted them.
David__77
Jun 2013
#307
"Snowden has become a cult" You ain't lying. And by the same folks who bray at the moon
Number23
Jun 2013
#228
Are we still gonna call him a hero? Or does this cross the line for folks here?
OregonBlue
Jun 2013
#3
No, he really isn't, though some are desperately trying to make him the story
LondonReign2
Jun 2013
#25
He becomes a major sticking point in the relationship if they shield him
BeyondGeography
Jun 2013
#36
I'm not trying to delve into dark CT here, but was that an in-person interview?
randome
Jun 2013
#61
he went to work for Booz Allen Hamilton AFTER he first spoke to Greenwald in January!
VanillaRhapsody
Jun 2013
#147
To be entirely fair, he was at the NSA in other positions for the past few years.
randome
Jun 2013
#151
In a hurry to have a journalist connected to possible treason investigated...
VanillaRhapsody
Jun 2013
#295
Did he or didn't he. Reportedly doesn't cut it. Either way, whether intentional or not he is now
still_one
Jun 2013
#9
Ah, I see. You're likely right, although I think the Chinese could use him as a bargaining chip.
randome
Jun 2013
#132
Yes, well, 'reportedly' the NSA has 'direct access' to all major tech companies.
randome
Jun 2013
#44
I suspect you are right. He probably encouraged him to go public, instead of dealing behind the
still_one
Jun 2013
#170
Ms. Ip is a "pro-Beijing" lawmaker. The sense is that she was delivering a message
MADem
Jun 2013
#262
Giving classified information -even verbally- still violates the oath he took.
randome
Jun 2013
#182
This is not Greenwald's fault by any stretch. It was Snowden's choice to sign
geek tragedy
Jun 2013
#48
A fan of "corporate personhood" in his cheerleading for the CITIZEN's UNITED ruling... nt
MADem
Jun 2013
#301
I disagree. I don't see that he's done anything approaching illegality. nt
geek tragedy
Jun 2013
#70
Greenwald lives in Brazil, so the privilege will probably extend quite far nt
geek tragedy
Jun 2013
#78
Greenwald may have just been holding on for maximum exposure. He has said he has additional info and
okaawhatever
Jun 2013
#209
Woodward is a lying hack. But people forget, his first "big story" with that guy Bernstein had some
MADem
Jun 2013
#290
Many don't know that he knew Scotty was lying during the Plame affair and he kept quiet.
reusrename
Jun 2013
#294
Maybe it was another Powerpoint presentation! Damn you, Microsoft! Damn you to hell!
randome
Jun 2013
#155
"By the way, Mr. Obama, now that your spy has confessed your many Capitalist Pig sins..."
randome
Jun 2013
#167
He didn't even show a slide into anything. Just an increases use of pen registers and trap devices.
BenzoDia
Jun 2013
#56
omg Richard Clarke, the former National Coordinator for Securrity, Infrastructure Protection and
avaistheone1
Jun 2013
#64
That is an allegation. It remains to be seen if Snowden did anything of the kind.
avaistheone1
Jun 2013
#80
So you don't believe everything you read in the papers? Does that include the Guardian?
randome
Jun 2013
#183
I never claimed he did. But he claimed -in the newspaper report- that he showed...
randome
Jun 2013
#217
I think it's safe to assume employees of the Chinese government read newspapers, though.
randome
Jun 2013
#219
You think the Pauls will support this latest bit of info? Apparently, Snowden is a serious Paulite.
Tarheel_Dem
Jun 2013
#117
What's even more alarming is that it's not only "repukes" and "Paulites". Look around.
Tarheel_Dem
Jun 2013
#162
It'll be interesting to see if Glenn Greenwald will continue defending him now
MrScorpio
Jun 2013
#97
I begin to think that this kid is just a loose canon. Stupid managers at BAH hired him! n/t
JackN415
Jun 2013
#110
Not everyone agrees that it's spying when data is stored and never looked at unless with a warrant.
randome
Jun 2013
#123
Pen registers have been used for decades and are constitutional with a court order.
BenzoDia
Jun 2013
#136
His documents could be provided by the Chinese. His travel to HK is now explained.
JackN415
Jun 2013
#120
Did Snowden reveal anything that the Chinese or anyone else did not already know?
azurnoir
Jun 2013
#140
"He said in that interview he could give someone the identity of every agent world wide"
PragmaticLiberal
Jun 2013
#199
"release of official secrets, which is illegal in Hong Kong and the United States".
Tarheel_Dem
Jun 2013
#172
Maybe this is why China has been so vigorously hacking American computers...
AZ Progressive
Jun 2013
#173
"identified 36 offenses with which Mr. Snowden could be charged under both Hong Kong and.....
Tarheel_Dem
Jun 2013
#205
I am much more interested in surveillance by NSA. IF Snowden has papers to prove that US is hacking
idwiyo
Jun 2013
#222
Hardly. He might be a hero to Chinese, whistleblower to those who only care that he provided the
idwiyo
Jun 2013
#226
Why does it matter? Is the info he revealed true? I believe so. Everything else is irrelevant.
idwiyo
Jun 2013
#232
Snowden alleged that US government is spying on its own and foreign citizens without a justifiable
idwiyo
Jun 2013
#239
Correction, I believe that information itself is true, who presents that information is irrelevant.
idwiyo
Jun 2013
#242
Again, thank you for sharing your opinion. Declaring something as fact hardly makes it so.
idwiyo
Jun 2013
#246
Of course it's my opinion, did I claim it wasn't? Also, it would be up to the courts to decide
idwiyo
Jun 2013
#282
and giddy with delight to have the guy who can tell them to what extent
arely staircase
Jun 2013
#238
The spying is still happening. It's relevant. Snowden's future prospects: not nearly as relevant.
DisgustipatedinCA
Jun 2013
#302