General Discussion

Zorra

(27,670 posts)

107. Yep. Here's the dirty little secret of any justice system: If you give the cops

Fri Jun 14, 2013, 10:35 AM

Jun 2013

a tool that they can use to break the law and get away with it, making their their job easier for them, they will use the tool 100% of the time. This is why we ~~have~~ had restrictions on police power at one time.

There is a very old saying that is attributed to Juvenal, but which probably pre-dates Juvenal by thousands of years:

"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" Which means "Who will guard the guards?"

Seems to me we need to start regulating and watch-dogging the justice industry big time.

There is another old saying: "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely".

One more relevant quote:

Knowledge is power. Information is power. The secreting or hoarding of knowledge or information may be an act of tyranny camouflaged as humility.
~ Robin Morgan

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Highlight:

Snowden and Greenwald Beginning to Self-Destruct; �The Nation� and �Mother Jones� Raise Questions [View all] flamingdem Jun 2013 OP

The bottom line, to me, is that there is no doub that NSA not only has access to, MotherPetrie Jun 2013 #1

The information has not been covered up brush Jun 2013 #12

Bullshit. Th1onein Jun 2013 #53

He leaked classified documents leftynyc Jun 2013 #63

Sorry. Mis-post. n/t Laelth Jun 2013 #81

They've been after him since the first story, which held nothing classified but that they were Th1onein Jun 2013 #94

LOL - oh, a lecture leftynyc Jun 2013 #97

Make up your mind: Are we talking about me or about Snowden? Th1onein Jun 2013 #182

Snowden got snowjobbed by Greenwald Abukhatar Jun 2013 #179

On evidence more effort went into that dud of a pun... JackRiddler Jun 2013 #194

Oh golly, the government's been violating the constitution for years! JackRiddler Jun 2013 #191

I don't know what you mean by "every piece of electronic communication." They only pnwmom Jun 2013 #32

Just for clarification, Snowden leaked evidence about two NSA programs. Laelth Jun 2013 #82

"tap into the servers of nine US Internet comparies, extracting . . ." geek tragedy Jun 2013 #96

it has not been debunked questionseverything Jun 2013 #116

The difference goes well beyond that. geek tragedy Jun 2013 #119

booz allen is the middle man doing the access for the gov't questionseverything Jun 2013 #127

The question is whether anyone other than Apple has direct geek tragedy Jun 2013 #131

Yes, it has. It only applies to specific targets OUTSIDE the U.S. pnwmom Jun 2013 #126

Actually,this is outdated information. pnwmom Jun 2013 #124

Not only is there "doubt" of that... gcomeau Jun 2013 #34

Quite true and that information is held on computers owned by intaglio Jun 2013 #58

Hear Hear, Sir The Magistrate Jun 2013 #73

OMG! Sanity!!! +1 n/t Benton D Struckcheon Jun 2013 #78

+1000000 Champion Jack Jun 2013 #85

hear, hear! flamingdem Jun 2013 #111

The reactionary left are played like fucking fiddles on a regular basis redqueen Jun 2013 #141

That's what 'reactionaries' do, react--by foaming at the mouth Surya Gayatri Jun 2013 #149

misuse of the word 'reactionary' can confuse tiny elvis Jun 2013 #190

I think I love you, oh great Magistrate! Surya Gayatri Jun 2013 #148

Are you accusing some here of being duped by a former Cato Institute and Koch Brothers employee Ikonoklast Jun 2013 #196

Really well said... SidDithers Jun 2013 #83

the kneejerking is done by Obama fans who give him a pass because he's supposedly a Dem instead MotherPetrie Jun 2013 #92

"Obama fans" Old and In the Way Jun 2013 #145

Sorry, but recognising reality is what you need to display intaglio Jun 2013 #162

Well Done, Sir, Well Done! Skraxx Jun 2013 #99

Greenwald thought he saw a sore spot in the Liberal Left and he is trying to VanillaRhapsody Jun 2013 #104

Yes, he poured iodine into that spot flamingdem Jun 2013 #113

+1000 Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #120

Thank you - this is the crux of the issue CakeGrrl Jun 2013 #125

You are now the unsung hero of this thread, intaglio... Surya Gayatri Jun 2013 #146

Self Delete - dupe Surya Gayatri Jun 2013 #147

Well here is a fucking good idea! Vinnie From Indy Jun 2013 #158

The issue of collection of metadata has, I believe, been tested, in court, intaglio Jun 2013 #171

Speaking of dupes Vinnie From Indy Jun 2013 #173

I have not claimed omniscience intaglio Jun 2013 #174

One might ask at what point will your sensibilities be aroused? Vinnie From Indy Jun 2013 #175

My sensibilities were aroused about 42 years ago intaglio Jun 2013 #193

I apologize for putting words in your mouth Vinnie From Indy Jun 2013 #195

No problem intaglio Jun 2013 #197

+ 2.73eBazillion Phillip McCleod Jun 2013 #181

Thank you for spelling it out. nt redqueen Jun 2013 #164

Precisely. aquart Jun 2013 #180

Amazing post. Amazing Number23 Jun 2013 #185

It doesn't "have" it... VanillaRhapsody Jun 2013 #102

Yep. Here's the dirty little secret of any justice system: If you give the cops Zorra Jun 2013 #107

Do you have an example of where the technology being discussed flamingdem Jun 2013 #118

You're deciding who's an "innocent" now? Corruption Inc Jun 2013 #172

they have no clue, do they? Skittles Jun 2013 #184

"the justice industry" OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #144

lets just kill them and get it over with backwoodsbob Jun 2013 #2

you know nothing about it. Cha Jun 2013 #5

if you say so backwoodsbob Jun 2013 #6

just as it seems to be yours i believe Bodhi BloodWave Jun 2013 #70

Greenwald took a lot of liberties with the truth it seems madokie Jun 2013 #3

I wonder if he is as dumb as it seems not to understand flamingdem Jun 2013 #4

This isn't the first time. You'd think Cha Jun 2013 #7

So Greenwald has used a technical blurry area to push his articles before? flamingdem Jun 2013 #9

hmm, USB thumb or 4 laptops? both? Whisp Jun 2013 #13

The Guardian may end up looking very bad as well flamingdem Jun 2013 #14

Rupert Murdoch dmr Jun 2013 #41

I used to work for the Guardian in the USA flamingdem Jun 2013 #115

Lesson? dmr Jun 2013 #166

Oh, okay, I'm seeing most posts as an attack apparently! flamingdem Jun 2013 #167

Then we're on the same page. dmr Jun 2013 #168

whew! flamingdem Jun 2013 #169

Help me out here. Didn't Feinstein just say the same thing as Snowden? reusrename Jun 2013 #43

This? madokie Jun 2013 #60

Spy Nation: bloomberg.com seems to think otherwise Monkie Jun 2013 #75

I've said before and I'll say again madokie Jun 2013 #76

How long was he going to keep up this charade flamingdem Jun 2013 #8

" . . .Greenwald weaseled around the questions . . ." Major Hogwash Jun 2013 #10

It's not about them. It's about a rubber stamp court that permits the government to liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #11

You want there to still be a 4th Amendment!? Why, you pearl-clutching unicorn-herder! villager Jun 2013 #15

We may benefit from a review of what's going on flamingdem Jun 2013 #16

that's a bit obvious. There's a million may or may nots in this life. A million what ifs. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #17

But that story broke years ago flamingdem Jun 2013 #19

I don't care when it broke. We need to put pressure on our government to stop spying on citizens. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #21

But that's all of the time and as we know flamingdem Jun 2013 #25

I don't give a s**t what Greenwald said. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #30

Oh, I don't know Abq_Sarah Jun 2013 #27

Always ask the CUI BONO questions. MADem Jun 2013 #55

The Chinese AND the GOP have benefitted. stevenleser Jun 2013 #93

Yes it's more of a symphony than a barn dance flamingdem Jun 2013 #123

Precisely--and the timing of the release of info (which Snowden insisted upon) had to be precise. MADem Jun 2013 #157

"many of whom seemed to be in deep hibernation before this incident" redqueen Jun 2013 #161

If China (via their reps in Hong Kong) doesn't put him on a plane back.. flamingdem Jun 2013 #163

Hong Kong's autonomy has been eroding as time passes. MADem Jun 2013 #165

^^^This!^^^ Surya Gayatri Jun 2013 #156

Precisely. nt redqueen Jun 2013 #160

The Chinese and Cha Jun 2013 #192

No. The FISA Court even denied a warrant on Tamerlan Tsarnaev, DevonRex Jun 2013 #18

but they're willing to approve collecting phone data on millions ordinary average American liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #26

Of course they did. They didn't have the evidence without Russian DevonRex Jun 2013 #40

They have data on telephone numbers made by ordinary citizens with no probable cause. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #44

Consensus is growing around fact Greenwald/Snowden wrong on "direct access" frazzled Jun 2013 #20

Thanks. It's crazy it got so far without this detail being explored flamingdem Jun 2013 #22

data is transmitted using the companies servers with FTP access - not accessing ! flamingdem Jun 2013 #23

Yeah, I'm a total tech dummy and I understand the difference frazzled Jun 2013 #29

Hey. That's useful info... SidDithers Jun 2013 #84

Here's a thread with clues frazzled Jun 2013 #98

You need to explain to us how you're sure that this is about FTP muriel_volestrangler Jun 2013 #71

I don't really understand this. Here is what Feinstein just said after the secret briefing: reusrename Jun 2013 #47

Phone records aren't the issue here frazzled Jun 2013 #103

Isn't it well documented that they have both? reusrename Jun 2013 #106

Unfortunately, the Hair on Fire crowd have already put on a helluva light show, MADem Jun 2013 #56

They must enjoy the smell. OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #138

LOL! And are 'you' really who you claim to be? randome Jun 2013 #139

haha! n/t Whisp Jun 2013 #140

You have people ProSense Jun 2013 #24

I don't care when the news broke. I don't care that it is legal. It is unconstitutional and therefor liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #28

Can you ProSense Jun 2013 #31

They can get phone numbers I have called from the phone companies when they have no liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #36

Not everyone is down with this Abq_Sarah Jun 2013 #38

If you're "no longer a democrat" then you haven't been one since the late seventies. MADem Jun 2013 #159

Smith v. Maryland was decided in 1979 JDPriestly Jun 2013 #37

Good points marions ghost Jun 2013 #189

here, G_j Jun 2013 #49

Sensible, indeed. aquart Jun 2013 #35

Actually, the Verizon story came first, got a big reaction, is a big deal. The PRISM story came Hissyspit Jun 2013 #52

There was quite a knee-jerk reaction here railsback Jun 2013 #33

Sounds likely! nt flamingdem Jun 2013 #133

Greenwald, unfortunately, will suffer no indignities. OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #143

This was in the Atlantic today octoberlib Jun 2013 #39

Then they should never have approved letting the government collect phone data on liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #45

Oh,I don't like it either. octoberlib Jun 2013 #48

Glenn Greenwald, Meet Jonathan Karl DallasNE Jun 2013 #42

I'm glad to see that there are credible journalists covering this loyalsister Jun 2013 #46

LOL. I'll file this under the "Greenwald is a hack" category. PSPS Jun 2013 #50

hoo boy! you guys don't just want to throw him under the bus. delrem Jun 2013 #51

Direct Access Is The One Thing That The Surveillance State Would Most Want To Bury cantbeserious Jun 2013 #54

Greenwald has been shouting "fire!" since January 20, 2009. ucrdem Jun 2013 #57

Eh, I was reading Greenwald at Unclaimed Territory before he went to Salon Fumesucker Jun 2013 #61

Let's put it this way, did he vote for Kerry in '04? Or any Democrat ever? ucrdem Jun 2013 #62

I have no idea who he voted for Fumesucker Jun 2013 #64

Ah yes well . . . ucrdem Jun 2013 #65

Not horse, woodchuck Fumesucker Jun 2013 #66

I feel their pain ucrdem Jun 2013 #68

oops ucrdem Jun 2013 #67

he sold more books during the Bush years Enrique Jun 2013 #80

Thanks for that list... ljm2002 Jun 2013 #112

Thanks Enrique. Some discussion of the early ouvre here: ucrdem Jun 2013 #176

"Move along. Nothing to see here. Pay no attention to the men behind the curtain." Ford_Prefect Jun 2013 #59

More like, 'Stop living in a Harry Potter fantasy and look at the real world's problems.' randome Jun 2013 #69

I thought the sarcasm was implied pretty clearly. Ford_Prefect Jun 2013 #72

No evidence to back up his claims. I think that's pretty simple. randome Jun 2013 #74

And you believe all that at face value? Ford_Prefect Jun 2013 #77

I don't believe anything someone says at face value. randome Jun 2013 #86

Amazing...it's your second Harry Potter post of the morning.... KoKo Jun 2013 #87

I'm fucking magical, aren't I? randome Jun 2013 #101

And...and "Energizer Bunny" for your cause... KoKo Jun 2013 #110

Companies that protest that the NSA does not have access to their data are lying. Laelth Jun 2013 #79

�direct access� description � only aspect � that was unknown prior = DU's instant reaction Coyotl Jun 2013 #88

This focus on Snowden and Greenwald takes away from the REAL Revelation... KoKo Jun 2013 #89

If Snowden had the access he claims, why not show us evidence? randome Jun 2013 #91

You might want to read this for background about Private Contractors... KoKo Jun 2013 #95

'Fuck privization!' seems to be the appropriate response. randome Jun 2013 #100

Jane Harman on Bloomberg Business this a.m. said: KoKo Jun 2013 #117

But that would require...{shudder}...SPENDING MONEY! randome Jun 2013 #122

Its becoming clear the Snowden "bombshell" is quickly becoming a dud. DCBob Jun 2013 #90

house democrat Sanchez says otherwise after secret briefings Monkie Jun 2013 #105

"What we learned" and then "I believe it's the tip of the iceberg". randome Jun 2013 #108

she! LOL! proven that you DID not even read the article or watch the video, that scared i see Monkie Jun 2013 #109

She says she learned significantly more. So what? That by itself means nothing. randome Jun 2013 #121

correct me if i am wrong, but you were the `body language` person? Monkie Jun 2013 #129

Did you see the Lawerence O'Donnell interview with Snowden's friend? randome Jun 2013 #134

its one thing a private person having to be careful, but a representative? Monkie Jun 2013 #136

Loretta is not the brightest bulb flamingdem Jun 2013 #135

Senator Tester says otherwise nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #132

A ridiculous headline... ljm2002 Jun 2013 #114

No they are not nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #128

Shabbily written. Quantess Jun 2013 #130

K&R... did you see the WSWS thread with the assertion that we MUST support Snowden, Assange, etc? redqueen Jun 2013 #137

I've actually seen people -- who don't know him, I am sure -- calling him "Ed." MADem Jun 2013 #150

Ok that's just weird. redqueen Jun 2013 #152

Do these people wear "Free Judy!" t-shirts? johnp3907 Jun 2013 #186

A mass movement of geek imposters flamingdem Jun 2013 #153

A mass movement of easily-led, cult of personality-worshipping reactionaries. nt redqueen Jun 2013 #155

you mean that wasn't satire JI7 Jun 2013 #183

I wish it was... it would be better if it was intentional. redqueen Jun 2013 #198

Something that sounds too good to be true usually is. nt riqster Jun 2013 #142

Greenwald has finally been hoisted on his own petard. MjolnirTime Jun 2013 #151

Too true flamingdem Jun 2013 #154

Another day, another McCarthy-like "hit piece" Corruption Inc Jun 2013 #170

That remark can be interpreted two ways, can't it? ucrdem Jun 2013 #177

most disgusting thread I've seen in 11 years on DU carolinayellowdog Jun 2013 #178

It Would Be Funny RobinA Jun 2013 #187

Greenwald should talk to Paul Ryan gulliver Jun 2013 #188