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stevenleser

(32,886 posts)

43. I've always felt that Liberalism and Progressivism were first and foremost fact based ideologies

Fri Jun 14, 2013, 03:45 PM

Jun 2013

It's OK to feel a lot of emotions about an issue, but the facts have to be there first.

The folks here with whom I seem to be disagreeing have gone right to the emotional part and disregarded the facts. Even worse, when the facts are pointed out, they say they disagree without having anything to back them up.

What is sad about that is that DU and much of the left in this country could probably coalesce around a suggestion that what is currently happening is less than ideal and we need to have a conversation about what should really be the law and the kinds of things a President should do in these cases.

But we cannot get there, because certain folks can't seem to get beyond the visceral emotional and fact-challenged reaction they have to information we should all have known about twelve years ago.

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xPost from BOG: Transcript of the NSA Surveillance Portion of my 6/9-10/13 show [View all] stevenleser Jun 2013 OP

Thanks for the cross post, Steve. sheshe2 Jun 2013 #1

You're welcome! stevenleser Jun 2013 #2

Thanks for a great show and discussion and the transcript! Will get to it tomorrow. freshwest Jun 2013 #10

Obama actually switched his stance on FISA while he was still a candidate, in July 2008 JaneyVee Jun 2013 #14

I'm still reading.. I keep getting interrupted! Cha Jun 2013 #3

Kick!! And thank you Steven! LeftInTX Jun 2013 #4

K&R. A must read! (nt) Control-Z Jun 2013 #5

Read this Atlantic article. JDPriestly Jun 2013 #6

And the ideal of almost total freedom that we had when the Constitution was written pnwmom Jun 2013 #8

Are you in favor of doing away with the Bill of Rights? JDPriestly Jun 2013 #9

No. I'm in favor of tracking phone numbers and if links to terrorists appear, pnwmom Jun 2013 #11

The government has that ability withoout kettling the rest of us. This willy nilly snappyturtle Jun 2013 #26

No, it doesn't, since the govt. doesn't know BEFOREHAND who might be connected pnwmom Jun 2013 #28

Please, look. All they have to do is get a warrant for the phone records of their suspect. snappyturtle Jun 2013 #29

They dont have a suspect yet. They are looking for suspects. nt stevenleser Jun 2013 #31

Oh, that makes me feel better. snappyturtle Jun 2013 #33

Domestic political activities are not part of the foreign espionage or terror exemption stevenleser Jun 2013 #34

What if I was an OWS sympathizer before country x's involvement? snappyturtle Jun 2013 #35

So let's parse it out stevenleser Jun 2013 #37

I just re-read what you wrote. It hit me in another way: snappyturtle Jun 2013 #36

Nope, I am not saying that. nt stevenleser Jun 2013 #38

My bad. I shouldn't try listening to immigration reform discussion on teevee snappyturtle Jun 2013 #39

Kind of far fetched. reusrename Jun 2013 #44

That is a totally different conversation from what we are seeing from Obama critics but... stevenleser Jun 2013 #12

So basically FISA needs to be modified and modernized ... ananda Jun 2013 #13

I don't think creating straw men is the way to discuss anything. That person did not say that. nt stevenleser Jun 2013 #15

*never mind* Sheepshank Jun 2013 #17

Bookmarking. Thank you, Steven! n/t pnwmom Jun 2013 #7

You're welcome! stevenleser Jun 2013 #16

DU Rec...nt SidDithers Jun 2013 #18

The truth of the matter......... Sheepshank Jun 2013 #19

It was actually my first time listening to your show Jamaal510 Jun 2013 #20

Thought you might enjoy this blast from the past on Greenwald.... msanthrope Jun 2013 #21

Wow, so he is trying to accuse others of something he himself did. Interesting. I also stevenleser Jun 2013 #22

Well, not only did, but he truly managed to screw over his client in the process... msanthrope Jun 2013 #23

looks like someone didn't notice that was from over a year ago JI7 Jun 2013 #32

Glenn Greenwald actually wrote about it before but now acts outraged. Go figure. DevonRex Jun 2013 #24

Hong Kong costs. The Mira isn't cheap. nt msanthrope Jun 2013 #25

to read later snagglepuss Jun 2013 #27

Two days later after this post and no criticism. I find that fascinating. You would think that those stevenleser Jun 2013 #30

for one thing, you are wrong about the date of the FISA warrant having to do with the Boston bombing NoMoreWarNow Jun 2013 #40

Three months worth of surveillance renewed every six months or so? stevenleser Jun 2013 #41

Perhaps engaging with you about the facts of the matter is too much to expect. redqueen Jun 2013 #42

I've always felt that Liberalism and Progressivism were first and foremost fact based ideologies stevenleser Jun 2013 #43

Kick nt stevenleser Jun 2013 #45

The legal underpinnings aren't rock solid, and will be subject to challenge Benton D Struckcheon Jun 2013 #46

Smith v. Maryland does not involve a National Security Issue. The rules are completely different. stevenleser Jun 2013 #47

Just FYI, I am reading it now, Benton D Struckcheon Jun 2013 #48