General Discussion

mwooldri

(10,818 posts)

86. Sickening. What I knew is coming out in the open.

Sat Jun 15, 2013, 09:57 PM

Jun 2013

I have been convinced for years that the NSA, GCHQ, etc have had this ability.

With *all* voice traffic going through an Internet-like (or actual Internet) network, the term and act of "wiretapping" is obsolete. Hence there is now no need to get a wiretap warrant. The phonecalls are not encrypted. Most email isn't encrypted. Your text messages are not, and the contents of this website aren't either.

If you need to exchange email securely, get it encrypted. Sure, it can be intercepted and decrypted but the law about decrypting a message is different from intercepting it and reading it. Intercepting and decrypting an encrypted email is a very clear violation of the 4th Amendment. IMO doing what they're doing is a violation of the 4th Amendment anyway. Failing that, decrypting any encrypted message could be a violation of the DMCA. Or something.

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NSA admits listening to U.S. phone calls without warrants [View all] DirkGently Jun 2013 OP

Oh make sure you see the thread I just posted about this Catherina Jun 2013 #1

Whoa. Tip of the iceberg is right. DirkGently Jun 2013 #4

*notices absence of Prosense from thread* Occulus Jun 2013 #149

You are correct tavalon Jun 2013 #242

They know that they can't defend this newthinking Jun 2013 #264

That shift proves the case for us Occulus Jun 2013 #280

Its definitely a collective, always has been bobduca Jun 2013 #286

Occulus, anyone with an IQ above room temperature has caught on dixiegrrrrl Jun 2013 #304

Once a nation decides that Enthusiast Jun 2013 #179

there's been high-level leaks saying basically the same thing for years... nashville_brook Jun 2013 #199

Which makes a complete mockery of the Constitution Yo_Mama Jun 2013 #2

It's sure looking that way. "Interpreting the law" to bypass DirkGently Jun 2013 #5

Maybe that's why they needed a Consitutional Scholar next n/t Catherina Jun 2013 #9

It would take such a scholar to interpret the Constitution properly. Occulus Jun 2013 #140

President Obama is a Constitutional Scholar tavalon Jun 2013 #245

Oh, I get the joke Occulus Jun 2013 #281

The infrastructure to do this was started under Clinton Yo_Mama Jun 2013 #12

Earlier, the Church committee slowed some of this nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #16

"National Security" has become a misnomer.... ReRe Jun 2013 #83

Or alternatively, creative lies nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #84

"National Security" = $$$$$ for contractors. HooptieWagon Jun 2013 #129

It's a money machine. ReRe Jun 2013 #134

Agree, it's bad marions ghost Jun 2013 #25

Time is short nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #54

whatever way marions ghost Jun 2013 #74

Well...I need to troll a few twitter feeds nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #76

Happy twittering marions ghost Jun 2013 #82

I don't think this will bear any fruit. We can no longer organize that way. reusrename Jun 2013 #135

We need to think outside the computer nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #159

Knocking on doors... reusrename Jun 2013 #205

Yep! bvar22 Jun 2013 #208

I disagree nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #211

Coming to grips with where we are. reusrename Jun 2013 #212

Remove democratic and you got it. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #213

I don't make the same distinctions that you are making. reusrename Jun 2013 #228

As I said, the heads of the stasi nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #237

Enemy of the state isn't a very high bar. reusrename Jun 2013 #244

Well here is where we are nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #247

I am really clear on what you are saying here. reusrename Jun 2013 #256

A few debriefs of the victims of nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #260

That might be the case. Yo_Mama Jun 2013 #240

I think this is an age-old struggle that is on a continuum throughout our history. reusrename Jun 2013 #263

I would fervently like to believe you tavalon Jun 2013 #248

I was being facetious. bvar22 Jun 2013 #282

This is some really funny shit nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #210

Yeah, it's weird, tavalon Jun 2013 #251

If it helps, LOCAL elections still matter a tad. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #254

I have to agree with you Catherina Jun 2013 #52

You are exactly correct. Enthusiast Jun 2013 #182

Now that it's godzillion-dollar business, can ANYONE stop it? DirkGently Jun 2013 #103

This is one of those weird dichotomies in the macro and micro tavalon Jun 2013 #257

"This is not safe and it is not going to work out well." tavalon Jun 2013 #243

Isn't there already a complete mockery of the 2nd Amendment too? DontTreadOnMe Jun 2013 #109

This cannot be true. All the DUers said there was always a warrant! n-t Logical Jun 2013 #3

Correction - Only Some DU Members Supported The Establishment cantbeserious Jun 2013 #17

True. I would say 50/50. n-t Logical Jun 2013 #21

Well, as of late, anyways... n/t ReRe Jun 2013 #88

It's ten or so actual members. Occulus Jun 2013 #150

It's something isn't it? ReRe Jun 2013 #156

+1 prolific indeed KurtNYC Jun 2013 #178

Only if you count the sockpuppets. backscatter712 Jun 2013 #233

Yep marions ghost Jun 2013 #23

I think they had a super duper secret invisible warrant. So we still might be wrong! n-t Logical Jun 2013 #24

that's right marions ghost Jun 2013 #35

So true! I worry enough about the qualified people seeing this information, but just think... Logical Jun 2013 #40

Everyone wants to trust marions ghost Jun 2013 #69

Certainly no Dems from California! n/t cherokeeprogressive Jun 2013 #37

Of course not marions ghost Jun 2013 #78

I've noticed allot of yellow faces around here lately.... n/t ReRe Jun 2013 #90

a few marions ghost Jun 2013 #102

There was ALWAYS a warrant. beevul Jun 2013 #108

LOL, OK, makes sense now. I feel sort of stupid. n-t Logical Jun 2013 #112

That's not true! THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!! backscatter712 Jun 2013 #147

This does not agree with the establishment narrative on the matter burnodo Jun 2013 #6

Have you ever thought about dating an acrobat? DirkGently Jun 2013 #8

Thought about it, sure! burnodo Jun 2013 #13

No wonder they were stomping on the press so hard Yo_Mama Jun 2013 #15

And the press started to push back nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #67

Shut it down now LittleBlue Jun 2013 #7

And while you're at it, repeal the Patriot Act and dismantle the DHS! n/t markpkessinger Jun 2013 #68

THIS. ++ DirkGently Jun 2013 #97

and end the war on pot nebenaube Jun 2013 #160

Yes, as soon as they called it Department of HOMELAND Security Lifelong Protester Jun 2013 #259

For some reason I immediately translated it into German in my head: Jackpine Radical Jun 2013 #290

Rep. Jerrold Nadler admits what he heard from NSA. Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #10

Muller and Nadler had the following Roselma Jun 2013 #92

Thanks Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #95

Thanks Roselma OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #136

I think the CNET writer maybe threw Roselma Jun 2013 #151

The more I read, the more that's become clear. OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #153

good article marions ghost Jun 2013 #11

But, but, there is a terrorist under my bed!!!! nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #14

Nobody. temporary311 Jun 2013 #18

I know nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #45

The TSA and milk delivering cops will protect you! n-t Logical Jun 2013 #22

Oh come on now Daniel537 Jun 2013 #217

LOL! n-t Logical Jun 2013 #219

It used to be Reds under the bed Rosa Luxemburg Jun 2013 #113

I know I know. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #115

They are more interested in controlling We the People fascisthunter Jun 2013 #19

They're protecting themselves.. ReRe Jun 2013 #99

Certain heads "should" be exploding on DU, bvar22 Jun 2013 #20

What if Nadler left a pole-dancing ballerina at the alter? Huh? HUH? Junkdrawer Jun 2013 #26

Amends... marions ghost Jun 2013 #28

It certainly explain the vehemence from the administration. morningfog Jun 2013 #34

Vacuums do not ex-plode kenny blankenship Jun 2013 #41

True...the vacuum-heads will implode... HooptieWagon Jun 2013 #87

I just don't know what to think. Jackpine Radical Jun 2013 #50

They're not here yet. Maedhros Jun 2013 #89

Well you see, all this is to find the next terrorist nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #93

It is the weekend. Jamastiene Jun 2013 #119

12-dimensional chess, my friend. nashville_brook Jun 2013 #225

We see this on every issue. Enthusiast Jun 2013 #186

No doubt being run by the same organizations. nt HooptieWagon Jun 2013 #265

Ah, now where are our resident propagandists to move the bar? Matariki Jun 2013 #27

Waiting for there marching orders, er, talking points. morningfog Jun 2013 #32

I'll erase the line in the sand if someone else can pull up the goal posts, just as a courtesy GoneFishin Jun 2013 #38

done marions ghost Jun 2013 #91

they'll upbraid us for being outraged before this particular story broke: us 80-percenters are STILL MisterP Jun 2013 #275

What a shocker! NOT. K&R. MotherPetrie Jun 2013 #29

Wait one cotton picking minute; PBO just said "Nobody is listening to your telephone calls." Melinda Jun 2013 #30

PBO isn't God... ReRe Jun 2013 #116

And remind them that... beevul Jun 2013 #125

The NSA has more than 1,000 analysts with the surname "Nobody" MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #157

Terence Hill is probably proud of a movement he has started nolabels Jun 2013 #169

Why does the article add "A representative said Nadler was not immediately available"? struggle4progress Jun 2013 #31

It came from a hearing Thursday: Junkdrawer Jun 2013 #36

NPR provided some coverage of that hearing: struggle4progress Jun 2013 #77

and that's precisely what makes it important. nashville_brook Jun 2013 #224

To heck with deflection, I think this is more interesting. Pholus Jun 2013 #39

They filed the change of name paperwork this week. woo me with science Jun 2013 #64

Here's Feinstein on Thursday: struggle4progress Jun 2013 #79

Nadler also had some terse comments about the 2000 election Art_from_Ark Jun 2013 #168

I'm not questioning Nadler's morals or decency -- but now that more of the transcript struggle4progress Jun 2013 #170

ah the misrepresentation of a miscommunication, quite some struggle you have going on Monkie Jun 2013 #181

The CNET headline: NSA admits listening to U.S. phone calls without warrants struggle4progress Jun 2013 #252

so Mueller will be happy to clarify it IN SECRET Monkie Jun 2013 #267

More lies exposed. No surprise. Keep tugging th thread! morningfog Jun 2013 #33

It's what some of us have been saying since the beginning of this *scandal*. SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #42

You have more confidence in that than do I. The authoritarians do not act in good faith. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #66

And on a Democratic board. It boggles the mind, doesn't it. SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #206

Authoritarians generally do not rethink. beevul Jun 2013 #122

True SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #207

Yeah, but every time you talk on the phone, you're sharing that information voluntarily with the Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #43

A version of that excuse has been used for justification on DU. RC Jun 2013 #287

I am beginning to understand the sudden urgency in Syria. morningfog Jun 2013 #44

+1 GoneFishin Jun 2013 #46

Yup, the other day I said it nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #49

Wow, great point. n-t Logical Jun 2013 #51

Food for thought. n/t DirkGently Jun 2013 #63

"How much is that doggie in the window... ReRe Jun 2013 #123

+100 nt Mojorabbit Jun 2013 #132

It's bio and chemical warfare and stuff. Enthusiast Jun 2013 #192

"Chemical weapons experts still skeptical about U.S. claim that Syria used sarin" nashville_brook Jun 2013 #203

Oh, well. Don't look back. On to Syria! Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #47

Hey kids...this explains all those votes against the interest of the people nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #48

We didn't say they had a warrant to listen, we said that their listening was warranted. You GoneFishin Jun 2013 #53

I'll warrant that you're right. Jackpine Radical Jun 2013 #56

But was it "wittingly" warranted? DirkGently Jun 2013 #61

My activist friends, when the Iraq war started and we were organizing against the war and Bush etc, rainy Jun 2013 #55

They were nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #57

We were hearing & saying the same things in the Vietnam days. Jackpine Radical Jun 2013 #58

When radicals and members of the counterculture HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #163

The moral is that only paranoid thinking Jackpine Radical Jun 2013 #250

Awesome! Trenchant, pithy, and germaine! scarletwoman Jun 2013 #279

Jeez, thanks, SW. Jackpine Radical Jun 2013 #289

It does bring to mind that old Zen-ism of the 60s: "Just because HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #285

As Heller said . . . markpkessinger Jun 2013 #305

That you are not paranoid. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #295

When we rises up to fight this you know the police state will be backed by our fellow rainy Jun 2013 #59

I would be willing to bet JimDandy Jun 2013 #104

I've had that happen too. Matariki Jun 2013 #307

But...... ohheckyeah Jun 2013 #60

This does explain the reason for the telecom retroactive immunity. (Explain not justify) GoneFishin Jun 2013 #62

Hey, remember when Ari Fleisher told us to watch what we said? nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #65

That, my friend, is or should be HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #164

Hmmm. Some are saying Nadler is confusing metadata with listening. DirkGently Jun 2013 #70

Even here, it started. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #73

I'm sure someone will be along shortly neverforget Jun 2013 #71

Too funny Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #105

It doesn't give Mueller's answer. And Feinstein never said what they have her saying. LOL. DevonRex Jun 2013 #72

Are you fucking Apologists startng to... 99Forever Jun 2013 #75

They will show up. With some other excuse. n-t Logical Jun 2013 #80

you'd think self-proclaimed centrists would embrace moderation in tone nashville_brook Jun 2013 #101

Now, tell us how you really feel! Fuddnik Jun 2013 #171

Nadler charged with sex crime...3...2...1... HooptieWagon Jun 2013 #81

I am expecting his junk on the twitter soon nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #96

It's almost as if the Church Committee served to innoculate the citizens against these ops... radhika Jun 2013 #85

The recomendations worked nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #98

Frogs boil; rights erode. DirkGently Jun 2013 #100

Sickening. What I knew is coming out in the open. mwooldri Jun 2013 #86

Democratic apologists should note that the NSA are not Democrats and do not like Democrats Ash_F Jun 2013 #94

And Clapper, Mueller, and Obama all lied... HooptieWagon Jun 2013 #106

If Nadler actually said it nt Progressive dog Jun 2013 #130

Nadler said Mueller was misleading, and posting from a racist right wing site helps make a point? Monkie Jun 2013 #183

Huffington Post reporting story faces skepticism Progressive dog Jun 2013 #187

No Problem, it happens to all of us, just a heads up Monkie Jun 2013 #188

Yup I just heard that Rep. Jerrold Adler fled to Hong Kong Progressive dog Jun 2013 #191

The racist littlegreenfootballs.com? OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #189

hating muslims is not racists? Monkie Jun 2013 #190

Because this: OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #193

some people feel dirty when they constantly wallow in racist hate Monkie Jun 2013 #198

Actually, that's kinda what was said in a post slightly upthread. OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #201

sorry i was actually already checking my pre-conceptions Monkie Jun 2013 #204

from anti-muslim hate site to shilling for the surveillance state, quite a reinvention Monkie Jun 2013 #202

Johnson is no Obama cheerleader. OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #209

what i know is he ran a anti-muslim hate site, and its now filled with cheerleading Monkie Jun 2013 #214

It's absolutely fair to discuss Johnson's history. OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #226

Before you backpedal too far, let me ask something. reusrename Jun 2013 #278

im sorry i do not understand your question at all? Monkie Jun 2013 #288

No doubt it's racist. reusrename Jun 2013 #292

i understand now where you are trying to go but i dont quite want to go there.. Monkie Jun 2013 #294

I understand and agree with your philosophy. reusrename Jun 2013 #300

Yes. They're reduced to citing conservative racist hate-sites to "bolster" their argument. HooptieWagon Jun 2013 #268

What conservative racist hate-site (sic)? OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #276

DUers citing Little Green Footballs to smear Nadler. HooptieWagon Jun 2013 #284

LGF is not a "racist hate-site (sic)". OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #299

Johnson is a neo-con who cut ties with the teabaggers. HooptieWagon Jun 2013 #301

Okay. I'll go there again. OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #303

They don't like that damn pesky Constitution either.... ReRe Jun 2013 #131

Incurious Barack BlueStreak Jun 2013 #107

Neither man is incurious. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #126

Precisely.......nt Enthusiast Jun 2013 #194

He has been doing this since he first took office AgingAmerican Jun 2013 #229

He's definitely sucked into that 3rd way thing. But I still go with incurious BlueStreak Jun 2013 #238

If anyone caes to see another take, the video is here Progressive dog Jun 2013 #110

So the NSA did NOT admit this? Sounds DEBUNKED. CakeGrrl Jun 2013 #121

I think you made a good prediction Progressive dog Jun 2013 #155

Little Green Footballs is a low rent Breitbart. Fuddnik Jun 2013 #172

Sure they are, reads just like Breitbart Progressive dog Jun 2013 #180

little green racists n/t Monkie Jun 2013 #184

I read that too, Charles Johnson bluemarkers Jun 2013 #133

This should die down gone quick except for a few diehards Progressive dog Jun 2013 #154

Gods bless Charles Johnson OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #141

Yep. They're using a neo-con website as a reference. HooptieWagon Jun 2013 #272

Who is? OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #273

The DUers citing Little Green Footballs to smear Nadler. HooptieWagon Jun 2013 #283

A few more tidbits for the tiny Sanity Section: OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #145

I didn't know anything about McCullagh till now Progressive dog Jun 2013 #152

Declan McCullagh, Alex Jones, and Ratfuckers of the World Unite. OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #158

And the usuals fell for it. I couldn't stop laughing at some of the shrillness upthread. Tarheel_Dem Jun 2013 #167

we're going to find out that it's a worst case scenario. then what? nashville_brook Jun 2013 #111

First there will be the parsing & obfuscating. DirkGently Jun 2013 #117

Technically different nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #128

No kidding Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #137

someone made a great point in another forum today, that the worst part about the spying nashville_brook Jun 2013 #114

It's chilling to any sort of "progress" is what it is. DirkGently Jun 2013 #120

"These dots don't even need to be connected." nt Enthusiast Jun 2013 #195

we know, actually, that NSA was busy targeting OWS while the Russia was raising alarms nashville_brook Jun 2013 #197

A perpetual state of high school marions ghost Jun 2013 #142

. blkmusclmachine Jun 2013 #118

Tagging for later. Marr Jun 2013 #124

No matter if the System is allegedly changed; WE WILL NEVER AGAIN KNOW IF WE ARE BEING LISTENED TO. WinkyDink Jun 2013 #127

Another link calls Nadler confused Progressive dog Jun 2013 #138

I wish the article reported what Mueller's response was to Nadler. pnwmom Jun 2013 #139

if you are not racists what is the difference between talking to a chinese or a UK newspaper? Monkie Jun 2013 #185

China is not an ally. The UK, which is a country of diverse racial backgrounds, pnwmom Jun 2013 #261

The CNET headline: NSA admits listening to U.S. phone calls without warrants struggle4progress Jun 2013 #255

Thanks! nt pnwmom Jun 2013 #262

Let's be careful here. BlueCheese Jun 2013 #143

Mueller & Nadler appear to disagree. DirkGently Jun 2013 #161

If true this is definitely illegal Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 #144

Correction, they secretly interpreted the secret law! Coyotl Jun 2013 #146

Video of exchange between Nadler and Mueller BlueCheese Jun 2013 #148

Here's what one commie (oops Libertarian) thinks DirkGently Jun 2013 #162

That's how it seem to me as well. Although... Marr Jun 2013 #227

k&r avaistheone1 Jun 2013 #165

This is what happens when you appoint Leslie Nielsen as FBI director. anAustralianobserver Jun 2013 #166

Well, this is a problem if its true. DCBob Jun 2013 #173

The discussion might have been about metadata not real time listening to phone calls... DCBob Jun 2013 #174

But the 'discussion' at DU is more like this. randome Jun 2013 #176

think mtasselin Jun 2013 #175

It all started with those damned "Secret Decoder Rings." Hubert Flottz Jun 2013 #177

This is how the media ProSense Jun 2013 #196

my guess is that Nadler will be a hot commodity this week. nashville_brook Jun 2013 #200

So fucking what? Daniel537 Jun 2013 #215

Hell, anyone can do that skepticscott Jun 2013 #216

Are you a member of the state? nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #218

I was being facetious, my overwrought friend... skepticscott Jun 2013 #220

Matrix reference whooshhh!!! nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #222

Yawn skepticscott Jun 2013 #230

Actually you missed an extremely good dystopia nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #239

I hope you don't view the prophet Orwell in this same light. reusrename Jun 2013 #249

"The Prophet Orwell" marions ghost Jun 2013 #274

My brother started referring to him that way several years ago. reusrename Jun 2013 #277

Phillip K Dick nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #297

it wasn't exactly clear to me either... nashville_brook Jun 2013 #223

Try getting out in the real world a little skepticscott Jun 2013 #231

wow -- crusty much? nashville_brook Jun 2013 #234

Post your phone bill in the thread then. DirkGently Jun 2013 #235

A Public Service Announcement from the NSA: lastlib Jun 2013 #221

thank you lastlib, songs from yesterday for today saidsimplesimon Jun 2013 #270

And since the private contractors recruit their "analysts" from Kinko's... lumberjack_jeff Jun 2013 #232

When was he told this though? Was it during the Bush administration when they were ignoring the law cstanleytech Jun 2013 #236

Whoops, looks like those of us being chastised for having our hair on fire, tavalon Jun 2013 #241

wow Liberal_in_LA Jun 2013 #246

Jerrold Nadler Does Not Think the NSA Can Listen to U.S. Phone Calls ProSense Jun 2013 #253

^^^^^ *** !!!!! *** ^^^^^ *** !!!!! *** ^^^^^ *** !!!!! *** ^^^^^ struggle4progress Jun 2013 #258

More like "oops", "we need to contain that" newthinking Jun 2013 #266

Actually, he didn't say what he thinks. JackRiddler Jun 2013 #306

So will all you pathetic, NSA humping lemmings kindly do us a favor now and Downtown Hound Jun 2013 #269

K & R !!! WillyT Jun 2013 #271

Talking Points Memo has just shot this story down... farmbo Jun 2013 #291

That is why hearings nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #293

How dare you Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 #296

All that statement says is that the WH told him to sit down and shut up. He didnt explain rhett o rick Jun 2013 #298

Amazing... humbled_opinion Jun 2013 #302