So which Amendment is it that permits subordination of the Constitution to "safety from terrorism?"

[ConservativeDemocrat]

135. It is clear you didn't take my advice to avoid making shit up...

Last time we had a discussion, you made assertions that you clearly pulled from your posterior, which I then went through and refuted through referenced statements, putting in links to the appropriate wikipedia articles and everything. I suggested that you might be a bit more convincing (to anyone other than the handful of people who already agree with you) if you actually did some research before making wild assertions about 'evil Democrats' that you'd like to be true, even though they're not.

It is clear that you did not take my advice.

So, once again, I need to go through and explain a few basic facts to you.

The FISA Bill is for Foreign Intelligence only. Any 'gathering of data' on Americans citizens is not covered by that Bill. The FISA Bill is for Foreign Intelligence only. Any 'gathering of data' on Americans citizens is not covered by that Bill. That means the law was broken IF they have been 'collecting and storing' the personal info of Americans who are not suspected of any crime.

Laughably false.

From Bush's remarks made on Oct. 26, 2001, about the Anti-Terrorism Bill.

Surveillance of communications is another essential tool to pursue and stop terrorists. The existing law was written in the era of rotary telephones. This new law that I sign today will allow surveillance of all communications used by terrorists, including e-mails, the Internet, and cell phones.

It's really simple, even if you don't care about the Constitution. There is NO law in this country and never was that permitted the Government to spy on its own people, not even a teeny, weeny bit. They have admitted to 'collecting and storing personal info on Americans. What court could issue a warrant for them to do that? NOT FISA, that is only for Foreign Intel.

The "Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court" did. Seriously, you didn't read the order itself? It's right here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2013/jun/06/verizon-telephone-data-court-order

Metadata is collected for all calls in the U.S. and between the U.S. and foreign countries. Understand that the FISA allows examination of any data of foreign nationals regardless of where the call originated, including (or especially) foreign nationals who are already entirely in the U.S. That a call is entirely within the U.S. does not mean that it cannot be examined. It's who is making it that's important, legally speaking.

You would do a much better job arguing that the efficacy of terrorism reduction for the cost of the NSA is not worth it, but I think I'll likely have that (considerably more difficult) conversation with someone who is an actual adult, at least emotionally speaking. Dealing with your persistent invention of "fact" to fit your argument, childish name calling, and inability to either learn or show shame from the previous proverbial "spankings" you got from previous run ins with the fact checks I've done on your statements, is tiring, and at this point I don't think I respect you enough to be convinced by anything you are likely to say.


- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community(*)

(*) A slam against Karl Rove and his assertion that they "create their own reality", although to be fair, this can apply to crackpots and kooks of all political stripes.

/ "You have about 49% crackpots in your party, we have only 10." - Howard Dean to a Republican: