General Discussion

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)

84. If, as was suggested in the discussion cited in the OP,

Mon Jun 17, 2013, 03:38 AM

Jun 2013

the terrorists had, in the late '90s, already figured out that there electronic communications are under surveillance, don't you think the Chinese had figured out before Snowden's revelations that theirs probably were too?

Personally I think so. The Chinese have a lot of computer hackers and make computer equipment. How could they not know they were being hacked?

The only folks who don't suspect they are being hacked are very innocent, ordinary people with little or nothing to hide like you and me.

So the secrecy is not about keeping this program from the Chinese or the terrorists but about keeping it from you and me.

It is an NSA program that is so big it is out of control That is my impression from what I have read about it especially the court order attached to Greenwald's first Guardian article on it.

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3 NSA veterans speak out on whistle-blower: We told you so (excellent information) [View all] Catherina Jun 2013 OP

And some will still ignore these 3 whistleblowers and focus on Greenwald think Jun 2013 #1

And some will still stay strangely focused on a mythical beast. elias7 Jun 2013 #3

I'm sorry. think Jun 2013 #10

Snark all you want - we've got more where that came from! Cronus Protagonist Jun 2013 #15

What a nice post. How refreshing! October Jun 2013 #145

Its not that they are irrelevant in this case but rather that its been well documented back to cstanleytech Jun 2013 #149

Except opinion ohheckyeah Jun 2013 #21

You are entitled to your opinion, not your own facts. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #65

That's the problem Yo_Mama Jun 2013 #139

I know nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #141

It was congress-people who covered up the whistleblowing of these three patriots. iemitsu Jun 2013 #175

You don't know my opinion. And my attitude is that I'm sick of the infighting elias7 Jun 2013 #186

Alas they are not simplistic nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #192

Character Assassins Octafish Jun 2013 #39

The problem is that these people see EVERYTHING as an attack on Obama Maedhros Jun 2013 #83

It is interesting how this dynamic plays out in real life. reusrename Jun 2013 #169

This means nothing to the apologist sophists on these board usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #2

Are you listening to the videos? heavy stuff. That order was highly highly classified Catherina Jun 2013 #5

just started usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #16

You are so welcome! I'm learning so much from you guys too Catherina Jun 2013 #33

Each 1 Teach 1 usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #34

And with 1.4 million timdog44 Jun 2013 #35

+1 Some heavy stuff. Hopefully the web of secrecy is starting to unravel BlueStreak Jun 2013 #32

I hope so too. Thank you for listening n/t Catherina Jun 2013 #88

I have no gotten to the videos yet. timdog44 Jun 2013 #43

If, as was suggested in the discussion cited in the OP, JDPriestly Jun 2013 #84

Only one of the three whistle-blowers suggested that iemitsu Jun 2013 #176

jaw dropping G_j Jun 2013 #48

Good because that's my reaction too. Catherina Jun 2013 #62

excellent point G_j Jun 2013 #67

But that would amount to domestic spying which the NSA swears it does not do without a warrant... Ford_Prefect Jun 2013 #138

I think it would be 2 different bombshell reactions lol! Catherina Jun 2013 #154

Re Clapper: it's not the lie, it's the coverup.....remember? dixiegrrrrl Jun 2013 #4

"They say those revelations only hint at the programs' reach." ohheckyeah Jun 2013 #6

I won't know what to think... Iggo Jun 2013 #7

Three NSA veterans ProSense Jun 2013 #8

K&R marions ghost Jun 2013 #9

Dirty commies! All of tem. Fuddnik Jun 2013 #11

Wow, the trickle is becomming a flood tavalon Jun 2013 #12

One excellent answer about prosecuting Edward Snowden Catherina Jun 2013 #14

Thanks for reminding me to shift back to Bush administration on this duhneece Jun 2013 #143

& Snowden shifted it quite well today saying it was an honor 2b called a traitor by Darth Vader lol! Catherina Jun 2013 #155

Drake said "Based on the response of the ohheckyeah Jun 2013 #13

oh heck yeah! you're listening! Catherina Jun 2013 #18

There is a transcript of the videos at the link in the OP. ohheckyeah Jun 2013 #20

No reason these companies timdog44 Jun 2013 #46

In this country ohheckyeah Jun 2013 #50

Sadly timdog44 Jun 2013 #52

As a group they are the only ones I can ohheckyeah Jun 2013 #53

And I'll give timdog44 Jun 2013 #56

Back at ya! ohheckyeah Jun 2013 #58

This is the main point that is being ignored: 'by a court that has not jurisdiction'. sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #123

Exactly - the defense of the FISA Court ohheckyeah Jun 2013 #124

Three more narcissists! nt Bonobo Jun 2013 #17

"cross-dressing Little Red Riding Hood(s)" Catherina Jun 2013 #19

And they all are "suspiciously" articulate usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #24

Yeah, that was a humdinger of a sub-thread me b zola Jun 2013 #82

WTF? Can you link that? hootinholler Jun 2013 #98

How corrupt is this system? Could a billionaire buy NSA information? Could a person with less than AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #22

All excellent points with frightening implications. Is this not HIGH TREASON? Catherina Jun 2013 #28

But Obama is different. He's on our side. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #31

Now you are starting to get it.. VanillaRhapsody Jun 2013 #78

I could see corporations using information about their employees & their medical records, pacalo Jun 2013 #151

+1000000 n/t Catherina Jun 2013 #156

Mr. Binney: Snowden left out the exposure of the NSA tapping of fiber optic trunk lines at ATT SF usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #23

Thomas Drake: "We are all foreigners now" usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #25

'FISA order (F for foreign) has no jurisdiction to authorize domestic surveillance' Catherina Jun 2013 #26

From the transcript: a problem they apparently *haven't* fixed magellan Jun 2013 #27

BINNEY:"And they didn't know he was doing (it)...That's the point, right? KoKo Jun 2013 #120

HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Jun 2013 #29

I can't help but note that those who seem quick to malign Snowden HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #30

I think people are missing the point watoos Jun 2013 #36

This is not about Obama. Catherina Jun 2013 #38

For a good many people, EVERYTHING is about Obama. QC Jun 2013 #105

This message was self-deleted by its author Catherina Jun 2013 #113

I had forgotten all about that. Please think nothing of it. n/t QC Jun 2013 #116

Thank you :) n/t Catherina Jun 2013 #122

The media puts it treestar Jun 2013 #146

Three decent and honorable men who tried to do the right thing. And we hear all the time that sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #37

^^^THIS^^^ No control, technobabble and word salads Catherina Jun 2013 #41

Absolutely - the government ohheckyeah Jun 2013 #44

Evil, I agree. And it's all about money and retaining the influences and power to get it. sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #61

Unfortunately, ohheckyeah Jun 2013 #64

(we) spied on UN Security Council and Kofi Annan - IRAQ WAR Catherina Jun 2013 #47

I remember that scandal, which went away until the Wikileaks cables confirmed it. No one has been sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #63

I don't know. And they probably never will but Catherina Jun 2013 #66

J Edgar Hoover had this kind of power (on a smaller scale) iemitsu Jun 2013 #177

so true! nt G_j Jun 2013 #60

This statement of yours really 'got me' Lifelong Protester Jun 2013 #74

I agree. pacalo Jun 2013 #152

3 NSA Veterans Speak Out... ReRe Jun 2013 #40

Great because this is really good stuff. You're going to appreciate it n/t Catherina Jun 2013 #42

Yes, it is - thanks ohheckyeah Jun 2013 #45

You're welcome but seriously, I would not be so focused without DU Catherina Jun 2013 #55

I am anxious to listen to it all... ReRe Jun 2013 #69

Thank you. So much to listen to. I'm starting to feel like the NSA lol! Catherina Jun 2013 #70

:-) hahaha ReRe Jun 2013 #72

The round table discussion throughout the video is a must see. Articulate, polite, respectful... Melinda Jun 2013 #49

Obviously made up propaganda. None of them know PowerPoint. Safetykitten Jun 2013 #51

Lol! Good one :) n/t Catherina Jun 2013 #57

K&R'd & bookmarked. snot Jun 2013 #54

Snot, really, don't miss all 4 videos. You won't even notice the time go buy Catherina Jun 2013 #59

Tomorrow, walked in from a fire nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #68

Oh :( Glad you're able to help people. Catherina Jun 2013 #71

What was frustrating was...not being able to get to nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #73

K & R Lifelong Protester Jun 2013 #75

You're welcome but thanks for reading it Catherina Jun 2013 #77

As an aside. Hilarious quote from the NYT about revolving doors Catherina Jun 2013 #76

Finally - DUers are backing these folks upi402 Jun 2013 #79

all appear to agree.. G_j Jun 2013 #80

Edward Snowden's not the first to make claims about NSA Octafish Jun 2013 #81

"That's why Osama bin Laden's compound wasn't connected to the Internet," Catherina Jun 2013 #87

Celebrity Blackmail Octafish Jun 2013 #94

Who is that? Catherina Jun 2013 #102

George Herbert Walker Bush, BFEE Octafish Jun 2013 #103

Lol, I recognized him. His High Lizardness is unmistakable Catherina Jun 2013 #108

That is the issue that makes the flock of concerned ones show up PFQ... Octafish Jun 2013 #111

Yes. But he had an *alibi*, Gerald Ford lol. These are the criminals who run our intelligence Catherina Jun 2013 #121

Gerald Ford, the Warren Commission Wound Mover. Octafish Jun 2013 #127

:-( i cant get video to work mettamega Jun 2013 #85

What browser are you using and what problem are you having? Catherina Jun 2013 #86

We're all Germans now. blkmusclmachine Jun 2013 #89

All these whistleblowers.... why is *Snowden* getting traction *now*??? yodermon Jun 2013 #90

On second thought, that's not the point of this thread n/t Catherina Jun 2013 #97

Prove WHAT!? Nothing new!! None of these anylyst say ANYTHING new! uponit7771 Jun 2013 #100

He provided TOP SECRET documentary proof - as noted in the video usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #109

Of what!?!!?!? Regards uponit7771 Jun 2013 #110

"material evidence of an institutional crime" Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #112

NOT unconsitutional, Meta Data is NOT the costumers...You through out trash they can look through it uponit7771 Jun 2013 #128

Meta Data sikofit3 Jun 2013 #189

The NSA Spying on ALL American's Comunicatons usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #126

Meta Data = communications?! That's not what Meta Data is uponit7771 Jun 2013 #129

The US GOV is spying on both the metadata AND the content usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #131

Link and quote on the content, that even sounds crazy....there isn't equipment or people uponit7771 Jun 2013 #132

It's all over DU, but just because you can't imagine it only reveals your lack of imagination usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #133

"itls all over DU" is NOT a link and quote, I'm asking you to source your claim. Regards uponit7771 Jun 2013 #134

This very thread discusses the massive government spying on ALL Americans (LINK) usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #136

Exactly! sikofit3 Jun 2013 #190

He provided TOP SECRET documentary proof - as noted in the video usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #106

I changed my mind and deleted my response because if people haven't even watched the video, Catherina Jun 2013 #117

Use them as an opportunity to repeat what the whistle blowers are saying usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #130

I'm not discouraged lol. And I'm very grateful others have the patience Catherina Jun 2013 #157

The NSA allegations/revelations should not come as a surprise AnnieK401 Jun 2013 #91

This issue is 20 times more important than immigration reform or the ACA Catherina Jun 2013 #101

Point taken AnnieK401 Jun 2013 #104

Thanks Annie. This is what I wrote in another thread and stand by it Catherina Jun 2013 #107

du rec. xchrom Jun 2013 #92

Bookmarking this for this next "this is Obama's fault" thread. Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #93

K&R idwiyo Jun 2013 #95

k&r Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #96

This is a must read. jsr Jun 2013 #99

+1 nashville_brook Jun 2013 #153

K&R ohheckyeah Jun 2013 #114

I've heard of Binney AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #115

You're welcome. I learned a lot too. n/t Catherina Jun 2013 #118

Democracy is an illusion and the Constitution is the stage of a puppet show. L0oniX Jun 2013 #119

Clearly these three men are - Hell Hath No Fury Jun 2013 #125

I know. They planned it years before he was even a Senator Catherina Jun 2013 #158

They wanted to make sure it was all in place -- Hell Hath No Fury Jun 2013 #195

Thanks HHNF. I had to turn it off to not see that and not to get distracted, discouraged or angry Catherina Jun 2013 #196

Thanks, Catherina. toby jo Jun 2013 #135

Thank you Toby Jo. Excellent comments n/t Catherina Jun 2013 #159

Bkmrd to read later snagglepuss Jun 2013 #137

It's a lot of reading so if you have limited time, just listen to the videos Catherina Jun 2013 #160

kick/rec. Brilliant. Glad this story is not going away. nt limpyhobbler Jun 2013 #140

There were both internal and DOJ attacks against these people Yo_Mama Jun 2013 #142

BTW...was shocked to see this from USA Today...And Pleased since KoKo Jun 2013 #144

Imagine if we didn't have DemocracyNow and all their archives Catherina Jun 2013 #162

three of the top five most-rec'd posts today are yours, deservedly carolinayellowdog Jun 2013 #147

I'm honestly humbled by what you just wrote Catherina Jun 2013 #163

Spies here on DU too? Of course. iemitsu Jun 2013 #178

And the 10 things we didn't know about them will be posted in, 3..2..1.. joeybee12 Jun 2013 #148

+100 Earth_First Jun 2013 #150

You're welcome. Everyone who said TY is welcome. I love doing this Catherina Jun 2013 #164

Nice post. Thanks for doing it!!! n-t Logical Jun 2013 #161

thanks for posting this, everyone needs to hear these guys steve2470 Jun 2013 #165

We're obviously all being spied upon ymetca Jun 2013 #166

Thank you. It looks like a keeper, I bookmarked it to read tonight Catherina Jun 2013 #168

+1 Go Vols Jun 2013 #188

Some intelligent and informed information. Kick. Rec. Hekate Jun 2013 #167

Thanks for this post. mia Jun 2013 #170

Thank you, just started listening to the interviews. n/t slipslidingaway Jun 2013 #171

Hopefully the "Night Crowd" can take time to read Transcripts or watch the Videos of this KoKo Jun 2013 #172

Yeah! a thread worth kicking! Agony Jun 2013 #173

1,856 applications and they denied none. lol! Catherina Jun 2013 #180

I want the names of the congress-people, who these iemitsu Jun 2013 #174

Agreed! I can't speak for them but it's got to be the Gang of Eight Catherina Jun 2013 #179

Thanks for identifying these criminal members of congress. iemitsu Jun 2013 #182

And Pelosi too. And Boehner of course too. Catherina Jun 2013 #184

Nope. Just a bunck of self-important fools, iemitsu Jun 2013 #185

Transcripts do not do the interviews justice, thanks! n/t slipslidingaway Jun 2013 #181

No they don't. Not at all. I wonder if that's for legal reasons? Catherina Jun 2013 #183

Not sure why, that is why everyone should watch the videos ... slipslidingaway Jun 2013 #197

Thank you Catherina. K+R sibelian Jun 2013 #187

Huge, huge K&R woo me with science Jun 2013 #191

Kick Go Vols Jun 2013 #193

From The Atlantic: Snowden succeeded where we failed. And a list Catherina Jun 2013 #194

kick woo me with science Jul 2013 #198