General Discussion

Decoy of Fenris

(1,954 posts)

156. It's not confusing at all, really.

Mon Jun 17, 2013, 04:00 AM

Jun 2013

When it comes to addressing of the rights, there are very clear lines in regards to the practice of said rights.

1st Amendment: Few restrictions outside of mitigating circumstances (inciting, hate crime, et cetera). HOWEVER, when additional restrictions (such as "free speech permits&quot are imposed, it is infringing on the free exercise of the right (as it is no longer "free", but conditional.)

2nd Amendment: Moderate restrictions for the good of public health and safety, charge to purchase a firearm directly. HOWEVER, when additional restrictions (such as "mandated gun safes&quot are imposed, it is infringing on the free exercise of the right (As it is no longer "Free", but conditional.)

Free exercise of a right, even including a preliminary cost, is still free. Additional costs, or costs that make the right prohibitive through financial burden, is an infringement upon said rights. It's fairly simple.

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Gun interests WANT criminals to have guns [View all] BainsBane Jun 2013 OP

of course they do Skittles Jun 2013 #1

Anything that justifies more and more guns BainsBane Jun 2013 #9

same shit that motivate fox news fans Skittles Jun 2013 #10

It's fascinating how many Fox interpretations BainsBane Jun 2013 #193

NRA propganda works Skittles Jun 2013 #195

they care not a single fuck who ends up with a gun, just so long as guns are sold. KG Jun 2013 #2

and that those guns are cheap BainsBane Jun 2013 #3

By golly rrneck Jun 2013 #4

Sadly, I've seen a great deal of evidence for it BainsBane Jun 2013 #6

No you haven't. ntt rrneck Jun 2013 #7

My impression was that you were better than most BainsBane Jun 2013 #8

I'm not better than anybody. Neither are you. rrneck Jun 2013 #11

Just to clarify to anyone reading this, I meant better only in terms of less extreme BainsBane Jun 2013 #101

LOL! rrneck Jun 2013 #102

Oh, it's been confirmed at length in the responses BainsBane Jun 2013 #103

LOL again. rrneck Jun 2013 #108

I already did. I'm sorry you find reading too difficult to bother with BainsBane Jun 2013 #115

Well, I guess that's enough to start. rrneck Jun 2013 #124

I think you worry WAY too much about relationships. jmg257 Jun 2013 #181

Do you work for a living? rrneck Jun 2013 #182

Yep - work hard for a living. jmg257 Jun 2013 #187

The point is rrneck Jun 2013 #189

I wasn't appealing to your ignorance. jmg257 Jun 2013 #191

And by the way... rrneck Jun 2013 #184

Yep - and they get people killed too. jmg257 Jun 2013 #188

What's your point? nt rrneck Jun 2013 #190

Once again, that you put WAY too much emphasis on "relationships". jmg257 Jun 2013 #192

You guys are a riot. rrneck Jun 2013 #212

It does get amusing, doesn't it? jmg257 Jun 2013 #232

Fixation on single causes is a relic of the nineteenth century. rrneck Jun 2013 #234

corrrection gejohnston Jun 2013 #223

Thanks. Post edited. (Replied yesterday but it didn't show up. Damn phone.) nt rrneck Jun 2013 #236

He forgot the part about compensating for a small dick badtoworse Jun 2013 #34

Damn. I figured I'd miss something. rrneck Jun 2013 #38

Well, that leaves me out. Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #49

Somebody get a ruler badtoworse Jun 2013 #51

Wait! She's coming back with a yardstick. Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #225

Of course. And in the US commerce trumps human life every time Doctor_J Jun 2013 #5

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #12

Well said derby378 Jun 2013 #13

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #14

OK, we'll just go for the confiscation then. truebluegreen Jun 2013 #15

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #17

OK you got me truebluegreen Jun 2013 #19

Or you could use your favorite search engine to look up Mexico and gun control derby378 Jun 2013 #23

Why would I use the google to look up Mexico and gun control truebluegreen Jun 2013 #25

Mexico: Law abiding citizens can't own guns and there's no way to take them away from the bad guys. badtoworse Jun 2013 #50

You need to work on your reading comprehesion. truebluegreen Jun 2013 #59

You got me on the 30,000 - I missed that. You did say in the US. badtoworse Jun 2013 #75

OK. I appreciate your response. truebluegreen Jun 2013 #87

I don't have a specific solution for the suicides. badtoworse Jun 2013 #194

Your opinion is wrong BainsBane Jun 2013 #111

I oppose legalization of drugs based on the effects of substance abuse that I have observed. badtoworse Jun 2013 #196

And just like the way to reduce drunk driving deaths was to reduce drunk drivers sarisataka Jun 2013 #30

Exactly my point. truebluegreen Jun 2013 #41

because wedge/cultural issues drive dollars and voters ceonupe Jun 2013 #201

"we'll" - Oh, you're volunteering to be on a confiscation team, then? Lizzie Poppet Jun 2013 #18

Sure. Will you be playing? truebluegreen Jun 2013 #20

I'll believe you when I see you at someone's door, geared up. Lizzie Poppet Jun 2013 #24

I'm shakin' in my socks... truebluegreen Jun 2013 #26

Why? It's not as if we both don't know you'll be nowhere near any confiscation team. Lizzie Poppet Jun 2013 #28

I'm sure you don't realize the point of this conversation truebluegreen Jun 2013 #45

If that's what my posts "seem like" to you... Lizzie Poppet Jun 2013 #78

OK. Since you want to take it to extremes, truebluegreen Jun 2013 #89

Actually, I rather expect such a dissolution within 20 years, maybe less. Lizzie Poppet Jun 2013 #117

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #27

Indeed. Lizzie Poppet Jun 2013 #29

the question in an unconventional war is what that 9mm will do to the family of the soilder who ... ceonupe Jun 2013 #202

"Neither side should advocate it." Lizzie Poppet Jun 2013 #205

As for you, all I have to say is truebluegreen Jun 2013 #47

So much for the myth of the law abiding gun owner BainsBane Jun 2013 #99

No one has a moral obligation to obey every last law. Lizzie Poppet Jun 2013 #118

You're a funny guy truebluegreen. Llewlladdwr Jun 2013 #54

I always aim to amuse. truebluegreen Jun 2013 #63

You might as well BainsBane Jun 2013 #100

"the most mundane position" Lizzie Poppet Jun 2013 #119

I understand that BainsBane Jun 2013 #123

Out of touch? Lizzie Poppet Jun 2013 #179

Of course the majority of gun owners favor expanded background checks BainsBane Jun 2013 #183

Just can't give up the bullshit amateur psychoanalysis, can you? Lizzie Poppet Jun 2013 #186

In order for the armory to work, participation would have to be voluntary derby378 Jun 2013 #21

I keep my guns in a safe and they are just a secure there as they would be in an armory badtoworse Jun 2013 #37

Then you're all set derby378 Jun 2013 #39

I responded to Post 13 which did not mention voluntary badtoworse Jun 2013 #44

Civilian armories maybe a way to go. Half-Century Man Jun 2013 #79

Sounds a bit complicated - I'd rather we just build the armories and be done with it derby378 Jun 2013 #207

I was always surprised that Ray-guns myth survived the first "what the fuck are you talking about?" Half-Century Man Jun 2013 #213

"if it occurred as Zimmerman described" is the issue as he is a proven liar and had issues with uppityperson Jun 2013 #32

I just purchased a pistol on the internet Duckhunter935 Jun 2013 #35

Yet they do shoot people for any and every reason BainsBane Jun 2013 #42

You can't ATA us out if here, so you return to smear? Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #58

Yes, well contact the NRA BainsBane Jun 2013 #65

"gag rule?" My god, check your own post in ATA. Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #68

Did you think that a request in ATA is the same as the law BainsBane Jun 2013 #83

welcome to DU Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2013 #46

Poor little gun troll went bye bye BainsBane Jun 2013 #112

LOL. It's always funny when our "pro-gun progressives" roll out the red carpet for obvious DanTex Jun 2013 #169

Funny how many happen to join DU all at once BainsBane Jun 2013 #172

It's the "gun troll loophole". DanTex Jun 2013 #173

I recently raised that in ATA to no avail BainsBane Jun 2013 #175

No, you didn't. beevul Jun 2013 #180

That's the effect of the policy BainsBane Jun 2013 #185

Bullshit. beevul Jun 2013 #229

Your patience and thoroughness are beyond the call of duty. nt Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #52

MIRt didn't even get him .... he got zapped by Automation ... interesting. n/t Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2013 #209

I've seen that on occasion. What is auto-removed, and why is it used? Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #210

it is a robotic system put in place by Admin to save MIRt time and trouble ... must Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2013 #211

Ah, more algae rhythms. Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #214

yeah, to make sure we don't mildew. Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2013 #215

The gun cult terrorists have no morality coldmountain Jun 2013 #16

absolutely BainsBane Jun 2013 #40

It's pretty obvious that your third paragraph at least is aimed at recent threads petronius Jun 2013 #22

^^^^^ this is pertinent to the discussion here, thanks ^^^^^ Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2013 #48

There you go, introducing emprical evidence versus a factually challenged emotional rant. friendly_iconoclast Jun 2013 #64

Gun politics are how "progressives" learn to hate... Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #67

I would say your links prove the OP's point. ieoeja Jun 2013 #199

To clarify, my point in posting wasn't to prove reasonableness (or the lack thereof), petronius Jun 2013 #203

So if a person otherwise supports most "progressive"/democrat ideas but ceonupe Jun 2013 #204

The drug rackets are their obvious market Kolesar Jun 2013 #31

With rants like this it's hard to understand why gun control is a failure on the national scene aikoaiko Jun 2013 #33

Maybe the struggle would be easier with a different attitude sarisataka Jun 2013 #36

Hm. I missed that. That's a pretty shitty way to talk to anyone. nt rrneck Jun 2013 #62

Unless your pro-2A on DU, it seems. Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #73

If they didn't want criminals to have guns, they would work for background checks BainsBane Jun 2013 #43

There are background checks Grisbald Jun 2013 #53

welcome to DU Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2013 #55

FALSE. Completely false BainsBane Jun 2013 #57

20 year old "study", sample size 300 who were asked for personal opinion in a push poll. Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #61

Then WTF was the NRA opposing in congress? BainsBane Jun 2013 #66

In order; Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #74

well many people in this thread assert otherwise BainsBane Jun 2013 #133

Key distinction, that. ;) n/t Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #135

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #56

False, the poster just below said background checks are an undue burden BainsBane Jun 2013 #71

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #96

Prove universal background checks would work. rrneck Jun 2013 #60

How could they possibly infringe on the rights of law abiding citizens? BainsBane Jun 2013 #69

That's not proof. rrneck Jun 2013 #76

Proof: I walk into a gun show BainsBane Jun 2013 #90

I assume Duckhunter935 Jun 2013 #91

Just read the report: The problem with felons purchasing guns is not necessarily the fault of owners Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #94

the other piece is allowing the ATF to enforce the law BainsBane Jun 2013 #136

See, that's a point where you and I agree. To a point, at any rate. Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #137

Why shouldn't gun dealers keep the same records BainsBane Jun 2013 #139

That, in and of itself, is not burdensome. Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #141

So you're worried about prosecution of criminals engaged in gun violence? BainsBane Jun 2013 #144

Less that, more accidental implications of innocents. Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #148

DNA exonerates the innocent BainsBane Jun 2013 #152

DNA also condemns the innocent. Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #153

because the law reqires them to keep more detailed records. gejohnston Jun 2013 #224

Yeah yeah yeah, whatever. rrneck Jun 2013 #95

ᴧᴧᴧᴧᴧᴧ HERE ᴧᴧᴧᴧᴧᴧ PROOF that they oppose background checks. BainsBane Jun 2013 #77

Well that's new. rrneck Jun 2013 #80

A call for proof of concept is hardly opposition. n/t Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #82

and denying reality, what is that? BainsBane Jun 2013 #84

When engaged in dialogue, a request for proof of unsubstantiated claims is fairly common. Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #85

You ain't seen nothing yet. rrneck Jun 2013 #88

There are questions pending. rrneck Jun 2013 #86

Already had a nice breakdown of the problems with background checks as designed... Pelican Jun 2013 #114

WTF are you talking about? BainsBane Jun 2013 #116

It's odd... Pelican Jun 2013 #126

A post I agree with. Apophis Jun 2013 #120

You are good!! CokeMachine Jun 2013 #70

Didn't you know repeating back someone's post can get you hidden? Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #81

That's not my alert BainsBane Jun 2013 #106

Gosh, I hadn't even read that response BainsBane Jun 2013 #109

I can only venture a guess G_j Jun 2013 #72

I wonder how many BainsBane Jun 2013 #97

Thank you, Captain Obvious. n/t Ian David Jun 2013 #92

Amazing how many vehemently deny the obvious. BainsBane Jun 2013 #98

Confirmation that pro-gun DUers OPPOSE background checks BainsBane Jun 2013 #93

What else? I wonder if this is in the mix . . . patrice Jun 2013 #128

I don't think they've heard about that yet BainsBane Jun 2013 #130

Where did I say I hate her? You appear to be a bigot of some sort, or someone who enjoys patrice Jun 2013 #198

Susan Rice is not "currently heading the NSA" hack89 Jun 2013 #200

Thanks for the correction. I honestly did not mean it as an insult. Just a fact that her patrice Jun 2013 #216

Gun cultists are sick mwrguy Jun 2013 #104

Be sure to read the responses beginning at post 46 BainsBane Jun 2013 #105

Oh I did mwrguy Jun 2013 #107

Me thinks the closet door has started to open. BainsBane Jun 2013 #110

I think you need to get yourself another roll of tin foil. rl6214 Jun 2013 #113

Everything in the OP BainsBane Jun 2013 #121

Can you link to any post where any of what you said is true? n/t Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #122

beginning with post 46 BainsBane Jun 2013 #125

So... All this is about you not getting the pat on the head and pity party you wanted? Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #129

Yes, I expect people to act humanely BainsBane Jun 2013 #131

Please read for comprehension. You're not quite understanding. Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #134

Taking care of one's own interests is key BainsBane Jun 2013 #138

And this right here's the crux of the issue. Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #147

But gun proponents do stomp on our free speech rights BainsBane Jun 2013 #150

bloomberg on one issue support you while he craps on almost every other democratic idea and principa ceonupe Jun 2013 #206

Just another juvenile rant rl6214 Jun 2013 #217

It can't be helped. It's what they do. n/t oneshooter Jun 2013 #218

Some of the gun safe opposition BainsBane Jun 2013 #127

I think you're distorting a bit, mate. Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #132

a poll tax? it's not voting. BainsBane Jun 2013 #140

It's the exercise of a protected right. Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #142

So I assume you advocate that everyone in the United States be provided firearms free of charge. Gravitycollapse Jun 2013 #145

Why? Free exercise is the ability to exercise freely, not "Fo' free!" Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #149

It's your argument, not mine. If it's confusing to you, then the rest of us are fucked. Gravitycollapse Jun 2013 #154

It's not confusing at all, really. Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #156

You admit that you must pay to exercise the 2nd amendment but then draw an arbitrary line. Gravitycollapse Jun 2013 #158

I concede that logically, I have little if any ground to stand on. Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #160

It is impossible to have a right to something material without some sort of cost. Gravitycollapse Jun 2013 #162

Agreed. Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #163

We only need to look to Australia to see how restrictive gun control can be highly effective. Gravitycollapse Jun 2013 #165

Aye, but the problem with comparisons between countries is that they're not the same. Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #166

So evidently would having to purchase a media outlet BainsBane Jun 2013 #164

How about the right to life? BainsBane Jun 2013 #146

What right to life? Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #151

The right to own a firearm is a direct expression of the right to life. Gravitycollapse Jun 2013 #155

I see BainsBane Jun 2013 #157

So is this: Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #159

Ever hear of death or birthdays or Christmas? The Straight Story Jun 2013 #178

I will note that I find repulsive BainsBane Jun 2013 #143

I'm more a long-view humanist. Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #161

Why is the right to own a gun in opposition to the right to life? Bazinga Jun 2013 #167

Your argument is fatally flawed NutmegYankee Jun 2013 #168

Nice distortion hack89 Jun 2013 #170

Yeah, links are really a distorion BainsBane Jun 2013 #171

You linked to a post where I specifically support gun safes hack89 Jun 2013 #177

This should be the theme of an ad campaign. Skidmore Jun 2013 #174

Good suggestion. BainsBane Jun 2013 #176

I live in one of the most dangerous cities in the US pintobean Jun 2013 #197

Illegal sales are still sales. DirkGently Jun 2013 #208

Yeah, because the fraction of a percent that is straw-purchased really adds to their bottom line. krispos42 Jun 2013 #219

Your information is not accurate BainsBane Jun 2013 #220

Hint: 26,000 = way way way less than one percent of the total guns sold in that same period. X_Digger Jun 2013 #221

that's not the total numbers of guns purchased BainsBane Jun 2013 #228

You have left the arena of fact completely now. beevul Jun 2013 #230

LOL, that would make the percentage LESS, not more. *snort* X_Digger Jun 2013 #233

Fraction of a percent, indeed. krispos42 Jun 2013 #222

Given that gun dealers are required to keep no records BainsBane Jun 2013 #227

How can you say such provably untrue things publicly and not expect someone will post the truth? beevul Jun 2013 #231

You shouldn't make shit up, as it tends to come back and bite you on the ass. Lizzie Poppet Jun 2013 #235

Quelle surprise. They're in it for the money, nothing else. nt Hekate Jun 2013 #226