General Discussion

Decoy of Fenris

(1,954 posts)

159. So is this:

Mon Jun 17, 2013, 04:06 AM

Jun 2013

&quot 12) To acquire, have and use the means necessary to exercise the above natural rights and pursue happiness, specifically including:

(1) A private residence, from which others may be excluded.

(2) Tools needed for one's livelihood.

(3) Personal property, which others may be denied the use of.

(4) Arms suitable for personal and community defense."

Let's be honest though, Bain. I don't care how much you may say you have a 'right' to life; if a jetliner falls out of the sky and crushes you into the ground, do you think that your 'right to life' will save you? No. That particular right is an illusion. You could get struck by lightning, hit by a rogue roofing nail, mauled by a bear, hell, you could get crushed by a meteor and no matter how much "right" you have to life, that right ceases to be upon your death.

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Gun interests WANT criminals to have guns [View all] BainsBane Jun 2013 OP

of course they do Skittles Jun 2013 #1

Anything that justifies more and more guns BainsBane Jun 2013 #9

same shit that motivate fox news fans Skittles Jun 2013 #10

It's fascinating how many Fox interpretations BainsBane Jun 2013 #193

NRA propganda works Skittles Jun 2013 #195

they care not a single fuck who ends up with a gun, just so long as guns are sold. KG Jun 2013 #2

and that those guns are cheap BainsBane Jun 2013 #3

By golly rrneck Jun 2013 #4

Sadly, I've seen a great deal of evidence for it BainsBane Jun 2013 #6

No you haven't. ntt rrneck Jun 2013 #7

My impression was that you were better than most BainsBane Jun 2013 #8

I'm not better than anybody. Neither are you. rrneck Jun 2013 #11

Just to clarify to anyone reading this, I meant better only in terms of less extreme BainsBane Jun 2013 #101

LOL! rrneck Jun 2013 #102

Oh, it's been confirmed at length in the responses BainsBane Jun 2013 #103

LOL again. rrneck Jun 2013 #108

I already did. I'm sorry you find reading too difficult to bother with BainsBane Jun 2013 #115

Well, I guess that's enough to start. rrneck Jun 2013 #124

I think you worry WAY too much about relationships. jmg257 Jun 2013 #181

Do you work for a living? rrneck Jun 2013 #182

Yep - work hard for a living. jmg257 Jun 2013 #187

The point is rrneck Jun 2013 #189

I wasn't appealing to your ignorance. jmg257 Jun 2013 #191

And by the way... rrneck Jun 2013 #184

Yep - and they get people killed too. jmg257 Jun 2013 #188

What's your point? nt rrneck Jun 2013 #190

Once again, that you put WAY too much emphasis on "relationships". jmg257 Jun 2013 #192

You guys are a riot. rrneck Jun 2013 #212

It does get amusing, doesn't it? jmg257 Jun 2013 #232

Fixation on single causes is a relic of the nineteenth century. rrneck Jun 2013 #234

corrrection gejohnston Jun 2013 #223

Thanks. Post edited. (Replied yesterday but it didn't show up. Damn phone.) nt rrneck Jun 2013 #236

He forgot the part about compensating for a small dick badtoworse Jun 2013 #34

Damn. I figured I'd miss something. rrneck Jun 2013 #38

Well, that leaves me out. Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #49

Somebody get a ruler badtoworse Jun 2013 #51

Wait! She's coming back with a yardstick. Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #225

Of course. And in the US commerce trumps human life every time Doctor_J Jun 2013 #5

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #12

Well said derby378 Jun 2013 #13

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #14

OK, we'll just go for the confiscation then. truebluegreen Jun 2013 #15

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #17

OK you got me truebluegreen Jun 2013 #19

Or you could use your favorite search engine to look up Mexico and gun control derby378 Jun 2013 #23

Why would I use the google to look up Mexico and gun control truebluegreen Jun 2013 #25

Mexico: Law abiding citizens can't own guns and there's no way to take them away from the bad guys. badtoworse Jun 2013 #50

You need to work on your reading comprehesion. truebluegreen Jun 2013 #59

You got me on the 30,000 - I missed that. You did say in the US. badtoworse Jun 2013 #75

OK. I appreciate your response. truebluegreen Jun 2013 #87

I don't have a specific solution for the suicides. badtoworse Jun 2013 #194

Your opinion is wrong BainsBane Jun 2013 #111

I oppose legalization of drugs based on the effects of substance abuse that I have observed. badtoworse Jun 2013 #196

And just like the way to reduce drunk driving deaths was to reduce drunk drivers sarisataka Jun 2013 #30

Exactly my point. truebluegreen Jun 2013 #41

because wedge/cultural issues drive dollars and voters ceonupe Jun 2013 #201

"we'll" - Oh, you're volunteering to be on a confiscation team, then? Lizzie Poppet Jun 2013 #18

Sure. Will you be playing? truebluegreen Jun 2013 #20

I'll believe you when I see you at someone's door, geared up. Lizzie Poppet Jun 2013 #24

I'm shakin' in my socks... truebluegreen Jun 2013 #26

Why? It's not as if we both don't know you'll be nowhere near any confiscation team. Lizzie Poppet Jun 2013 #28

I'm sure you don't realize the point of this conversation truebluegreen Jun 2013 #45

If that's what my posts "seem like" to you... Lizzie Poppet Jun 2013 #78

OK. Since you want to take it to extremes, truebluegreen Jun 2013 #89

Actually, I rather expect such a dissolution within 20 years, maybe less. Lizzie Poppet Jun 2013 #117

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #27

Indeed. Lizzie Poppet Jun 2013 #29

the question in an unconventional war is what that 9mm will do to the family of the soilder who ... ceonupe Jun 2013 #202

"Neither side should advocate it." Lizzie Poppet Jun 2013 #205

As for you, all I have to say is truebluegreen Jun 2013 #47

So much for the myth of the law abiding gun owner BainsBane Jun 2013 #99

No one has a moral obligation to obey every last law. Lizzie Poppet Jun 2013 #118

You're a funny guy truebluegreen. Llewlladdwr Jun 2013 #54

I always aim to amuse. truebluegreen Jun 2013 #63

You might as well BainsBane Jun 2013 #100

"the most mundane position" Lizzie Poppet Jun 2013 #119

I understand that BainsBane Jun 2013 #123

Out of touch? Lizzie Poppet Jun 2013 #179

Of course the majority of gun owners favor expanded background checks BainsBane Jun 2013 #183

Just can't give up the bullshit amateur psychoanalysis, can you? Lizzie Poppet Jun 2013 #186

In order for the armory to work, participation would have to be voluntary derby378 Jun 2013 #21

I keep my guns in a safe and they are just a secure there as they would be in an armory badtoworse Jun 2013 #37

Then you're all set derby378 Jun 2013 #39

I responded to Post 13 which did not mention voluntary badtoworse Jun 2013 #44

Civilian armories maybe a way to go. Half-Century Man Jun 2013 #79

Sounds a bit complicated - I'd rather we just build the armories and be done with it derby378 Jun 2013 #207

I was always surprised that Ray-guns myth survived the first "what the fuck are you talking about?" Half-Century Man Jun 2013 #213

"if it occurred as Zimmerman described" is the issue as he is a proven liar and had issues with uppityperson Jun 2013 #32

I just purchased a pistol on the internet Duckhunter935 Jun 2013 #35

Yet they do shoot people for any and every reason BainsBane Jun 2013 #42

You can't ATA us out if here, so you return to smear? Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #58

Yes, well contact the NRA BainsBane Jun 2013 #65

"gag rule?" My god, check your own post in ATA. Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #68

Did you think that a request in ATA is the same as the law BainsBane Jun 2013 #83

welcome to DU Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2013 #46

Poor little gun troll went bye bye BainsBane Jun 2013 #112

LOL. It's always funny when our "pro-gun progressives" roll out the red carpet for obvious DanTex Jun 2013 #169

Funny how many happen to join DU all at once BainsBane Jun 2013 #172

It's the "gun troll loophole". DanTex Jun 2013 #173

I recently raised that in ATA to no avail BainsBane Jun 2013 #175

No, you didn't. beevul Jun 2013 #180

That's the effect of the policy BainsBane Jun 2013 #185

Bullshit. beevul Jun 2013 #229

Your patience and thoroughness are beyond the call of duty. nt Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #52

MIRt didn't even get him .... he got zapped by Automation ... interesting. n/t Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2013 #209

I've seen that on occasion. What is auto-removed, and why is it used? Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #210

it is a robotic system put in place by Admin to save MIRt time and trouble ... must Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2013 #211

Ah, more algae rhythms. Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #214

yeah, to make sure we don't mildew. Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2013 #215

The gun cult terrorists have no morality coldmountain Jun 2013 #16

absolutely BainsBane Jun 2013 #40

It's pretty obvious that your third paragraph at least is aimed at recent threads petronius Jun 2013 #22

^^^^^ this is pertinent to the discussion here, thanks ^^^^^ Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2013 #48

There you go, introducing emprical evidence versus a factually challenged emotional rant. friendly_iconoclast Jun 2013 #64

Gun politics are how "progressives" learn to hate... Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #67

I would say your links prove the OP's point. ieoeja Jun 2013 #199

To clarify, my point in posting wasn't to prove reasonableness (or the lack thereof), petronius Jun 2013 #203

So if a person otherwise supports most "progressive"/democrat ideas but ceonupe Jun 2013 #204

The drug rackets are their obvious market Kolesar Jun 2013 #31

With rants like this it's hard to understand why gun control is a failure on the national scene aikoaiko Jun 2013 #33

Maybe the struggle would be easier with a different attitude sarisataka Jun 2013 #36

Hm. I missed that. That's a pretty shitty way to talk to anyone. nt rrneck Jun 2013 #62

Unless your pro-2A on DU, it seems. Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #73

If they didn't want criminals to have guns, they would work for background checks BainsBane Jun 2013 #43

There are background checks Grisbald Jun 2013 #53

welcome to DU Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2013 #55

FALSE. Completely false BainsBane Jun 2013 #57

20 year old "study", sample size 300 who were asked for personal opinion in a push poll. Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #61

Then WTF was the NRA opposing in congress? BainsBane Jun 2013 #66

In order; Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #74

well many people in this thread assert otherwise BainsBane Jun 2013 #133

Key distinction, that. ;) n/t Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #135

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #56

False, the poster just below said background checks are an undue burden BainsBane Jun 2013 #71

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #96

Prove universal background checks would work. rrneck Jun 2013 #60

How could they possibly infringe on the rights of law abiding citizens? BainsBane Jun 2013 #69

That's not proof. rrneck Jun 2013 #76

Proof: I walk into a gun show BainsBane Jun 2013 #90

I assume Duckhunter935 Jun 2013 #91

Just read the report: The problem with felons purchasing guns is not necessarily the fault of owners Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #94

the other piece is allowing the ATF to enforce the law BainsBane Jun 2013 #136

See, that's a point where you and I agree. To a point, at any rate. Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #137

Why shouldn't gun dealers keep the same records BainsBane Jun 2013 #139

That, in and of itself, is not burdensome. Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #141

So you're worried about prosecution of criminals engaged in gun violence? BainsBane Jun 2013 #144

Less that, more accidental implications of innocents. Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #148

DNA exonerates the innocent BainsBane Jun 2013 #152

DNA also condemns the innocent. Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #153

because the law reqires them to keep more detailed records. gejohnston Jun 2013 #224

Yeah yeah yeah, whatever. rrneck Jun 2013 #95

ᴧᴧᴧᴧᴧᴧ HERE ᴧᴧᴧᴧᴧᴧ PROOF that they oppose background checks. BainsBane Jun 2013 #77

Well that's new. rrneck Jun 2013 #80

A call for proof of concept is hardly opposition. n/t Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #82

and denying reality, what is that? BainsBane Jun 2013 #84

When engaged in dialogue, a request for proof of unsubstantiated claims is fairly common. Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #85

You ain't seen nothing yet. rrneck Jun 2013 #88

There are questions pending. rrneck Jun 2013 #86

Already had a nice breakdown of the problems with background checks as designed... Pelican Jun 2013 #114

WTF are you talking about? BainsBane Jun 2013 #116

It's odd... Pelican Jun 2013 #126

A post I agree with. Apophis Jun 2013 #120

You are good!! CokeMachine Jun 2013 #70

Didn't you know repeating back someone's post can get you hidden? Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #81

That's not my alert BainsBane Jun 2013 #106

Gosh, I hadn't even read that response BainsBane Jun 2013 #109

I can only venture a guess G_j Jun 2013 #72

I wonder how many BainsBane Jun 2013 #97

Thank you, Captain Obvious. n/t Ian David Jun 2013 #92

Amazing how many vehemently deny the obvious. BainsBane Jun 2013 #98

Confirmation that pro-gun DUers OPPOSE background checks BainsBane Jun 2013 #93

What else? I wonder if this is in the mix . . . patrice Jun 2013 #128

I don't think they've heard about that yet BainsBane Jun 2013 #130

Where did I say I hate her? You appear to be a bigot of some sort, or someone who enjoys patrice Jun 2013 #198

Susan Rice is not "currently heading the NSA" hack89 Jun 2013 #200

Thanks for the correction. I honestly did not mean it as an insult. Just a fact that her patrice Jun 2013 #216

Gun cultists are sick mwrguy Jun 2013 #104

Be sure to read the responses beginning at post 46 BainsBane Jun 2013 #105

Oh I did mwrguy Jun 2013 #107

Me thinks the closet door has started to open. BainsBane Jun 2013 #110

I think you need to get yourself another roll of tin foil. rl6214 Jun 2013 #113

Everything in the OP BainsBane Jun 2013 #121

Can you link to any post where any of what you said is true? n/t Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #122

beginning with post 46 BainsBane Jun 2013 #125

So... All this is about you not getting the pat on the head and pity party you wanted? Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #129

Yes, I expect people to act humanely BainsBane Jun 2013 #131

Please read for comprehension. You're not quite understanding. Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #134

Taking care of one's own interests is key BainsBane Jun 2013 #138

And this right here's the crux of the issue. Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #147

But gun proponents do stomp on our free speech rights BainsBane Jun 2013 #150

bloomberg on one issue support you while he craps on almost every other democratic idea and principa ceonupe Jun 2013 #206

Just another juvenile rant rl6214 Jun 2013 #217

It can't be helped. It's what they do. n/t oneshooter Jun 2013 #218

Some of the gun safe opposition BainsBane Jun 2013 #127

I think you're distorting a bit, mate. Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #132

a poll tax? it's not voting. BainsBane Jun 2013 #140

It's the exercise of a protected right. Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #142

So I assume you advocate that everyone in the United States be provided firearms free of charge. Gravitycollapse Jun 2013 #145

Why? Free exercise is the ability to exercise freely, not "Fo' free!" Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #149

It's your argument, not mine. If it's confusing to you, then the rest of us are fucked. Gravitycollapse Jun 2013 #154

It's not confusing at all, really. Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #156

You admit that you must pay to exercise the 2nd amendment but then draw an arbitrary line. Gravitycollapse Jun 2013 #158

I concede that logically, I have little if any ground to stand on. Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #160

It is impossible to have a right to something material without some sort of cost. Gravitycollapse Jun 2013 #162

Agreed. Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #163

We only need to look to Australia to see how restrictive gun control can be highly effective. Gravitycollapse Jun 2013 #165

Aye, but the problem with comparisons between countries is that they're not the same. Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #166

So evidently would having to purchase a media outlet BainsBane Jun 2013 #164

How about the right to life? BainsBane Jun 2013 #146

What right to life? Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #151

The right to own a firearm is a direct expression of the right to life. Gravitycollapse Jun 2013 #155

I see BainsBane Jun 2013 #157

So is this: Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #159

Ever hear of death or birthdays or Christmas? The Straight Story Jun 2013 #178

I will note that I find repulsive BainsBane Jun 2013 #143

I'm more a long-view humanist. Decoy of Fenris Jun 2013 #161

Why is the right to own a gun in opposition to the right to life? Bazinga Jun 2013 #167

Your argument is fatally flawed NutmegYankee Jun 2013 #168

Nice distortion hack89 Jun 2013 #170

Yeah, links are really a distorion BainsBane Jun 2013 #171

You linked to a post where I specifically support gun safes hack89 Jun 2013 #177

This should be the theme of an ad campaign. Skidmore Jun 2013 #174

Good suggestion. BainsBane Jun 2013 #176

I live in one of the most dangerous cities in the US pintobean Jun 2013 #197

Illegal sales are still sales. DirkGently Jun 2013 #208

Yeah, because the fraction of a percent that is straw-purchased really adds to their bottom line. krispos42 Jun 2013 #219

Your information is not accurate BainsBane Jun 2013 #220

Hint: 26,000 = way way way less than one percent of the total guns sold in that same period. X_Digger Jun 2013 #221

that's not the total numbers of guns purchased BainsBane Jun 2013 #228

You have left the arena of fact completely now. beevul Jun 2013 #230

LOL, that would make the percentage LESS, not more. *snort* X_Digger Jun 2013 #233

Fraction of a percent, indeed. krispos42 Jun 2013 #222

Given that gun dealers are required to keep no records BainsBane Jun 2013 #227

How can you say such provably untrue things publicly and not expect someone will post the truth? beevul Jun 2013 #231

You shouldn't make shit up, as it tends to come back and bite you on the ass. Lizzie Poppet Jun 2013 #235

Quelle surprise. They're in it for the money, nothing else. nt Hekate Jun 2013 #226