General Discussion

MADem

(135,425 posts)

138. This is not ABOUT "agreeing with the OP" and if you read the points I was making

Mon Jun 17, 2013, 02:14 PM

Jun 2013

instead of snarking you would see that.

I have no problem with people DISAGREEING--but shit, disagree with facts, with discussion points, not "Prosense is an operative" and "Prosense is an Obama shill" and "Prosense does PR for the administration"--that, to me is lazy and pure horseshit.

And some of it is coming from people who seemed to sign up here just to toss those kinds of shitbombs, and that, to me, is suspicious.

You got something to say? Say it. Disagree? Tell us WHY and provide some of those swell links that certain derailers on this thread seem unwilling to cough up.

Don't denigrate a DUer as a substitute for a substantive response.

Is that clear enough for you?

As for the OP, it is a "fact" that you can't "listen in on people's phone calls" using SIGINT, and it would appear that Greenwald and his little friend were either fluffing words to stay unclear or even deliberately obfuscating on that point--for starters. There's plenty to learn in those links--but I guess, for some, making fun of the person posting them is a cheaper and easier way of reaching one's goal.

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Snowden basically admits the "direct access" claim was bullshit. [View all] ProSense Jun 2013 OP

This is going beyong mere political interest JW2020 Jun 2013 #1

why would you except anything this guy says warrior1 Jun 2013 #3

Welcome to DU... SidDithers Jun 2013 #7

Now you are maligning and impugning the poster, and that's not appreciated. MADem Jun 2013 #10

I agree with the post in it's entiriety...the OP seems to have a very specific axe to grind... truebrit71 Jun 2013 #17

Who are you to tell people what they're "allowed" to be interested in? MADem Jun 2013 #19

+1 Progressive dog Jun 2013 #54

Who are you? Marr Jun 2013 #77

I'm pointing out the irony. MADem Jun 2013 #87

"low post count posters and newcomers" JW2020 Jun 2013 #96

No, I'm simply observing the obvious. MADem Jun 2013 #104

STASI was not NAZI JW2020 Jun 2013 #111

History sure is something--you might want to stop laughing and get up off the floor. MADem Jun 2013 #123

to be fair and balanced, the west recruited the nazi's that the stasi didnt Monkie Jun 2013 #131

So? MADem Jun 2013 #139

south america? where the US loved to support dictators and overthrow democracies Monkie Jun 2013 #145

Start a thread on this topic somewhere else and I'll be happy to play in your sandbox. MADem Jun 2013 #151

To your posts...I gots to say...YUP! SoapBox Jun 2013 #99

+1000 graham4anything Jun 2013 #105

You ought to take your own advice. Comrade Grumpy Jun 2013 #109

You might do the same, instead of chasing me round with pithy MADem Jun 2013 #129

I would imagine it's no less, no no more fair a question to ask why one may defend LanternWaste Jun 2013 #73

$TOP IT TRUEBRIT Skittles Jun 2013 #178

Please excuse JW2020 Bradical79 Jun 2013 #18

I'll repeat what I said upthread. MADem Jun 2013 #22

Agenda alright JW2020 Jun 2013 #27

If we want to talk about agendas, you showed up just in time to MADem Jun 2013 #34

hmm... ucrdem Jun 2013 #50

Epic Smackdown! Thank you. You definitely cracked the poster's mirror, and his irony meter. Tarheel_Dem Jun 2013 #52

If repeating bullshit is an "epic smackdown". Bradical79 Jun 2013 #56

Much as when we call a thing... LanternWaste Jun 2013 #81

If that is epic in your point of view JW2020 Jun 2013 #74

Enjoy your stay! Tarheel_Dem Jun 2013 #92

!!! JW2020 Jun 2013 #107

!!! Tarheel_Dem Jun 2013 #133

Inform the STASI!!!!!!!!!!! JW2020 Jun 2013 #71

This is your 72nd post here--all on the same "Snowden" meme. MADem Jun 2013 #82

And you have 87 thousand JW2020 Jun 2013 #84

Yes, I do--on a variety of topics. They're not ALL SNOWDEN, ALL THE TIME. MADem Jun 2013 #89

Sounds like a first world problem JW2020 Jun 2013 #91

And that "First World Problem" phrase sounds rather "lame hipster." MADem Jun 2013 #101

That cuts both ways. Marr Jun 2013 #75

You do know that Obama is the President of the United States? MADem Jun 2013 #95

C'mon-- this is something that been gone over and over. Marr Jun 2013 #106

That entire construct is just absurd. MADem Jun 2013 #115

Did you not start this entire thing by questioning the interests of another poster? Marr Jun 2013 #142

No--I was questioning the RUDENESS of a poster, who was MADem Jun 2013 #146

You're right, after reading through that exchange... Marr Jun 2013 #148

No problem. I don't have any trouble learning something new about this matter. MADem Jun 2013 #149

Thank you for saying this. Raine1967 Jun 2013 #152

You are most welcome. MADem Jun 2013 #153

thank-you! Blue_Roses Jun 2013 #165

I see link and quote from Pro and none from you, whom am I to believe? Regards uponit7771 Jun 2013 #26

WOW! JW2020 Jun 2013 #21

You're getting off to a fine start, insulting another DUer for asking a reasonable question. MADem Jun 2013 #44

Sounds like you got a regular STASI network JW2020 Jun 2013 #65

Again... MADem Jun 2013 #108

Oh my god! JW2020 Jun 2013 #110

Like I said elsewhere--stop laughing, and get up off the floor. MADem Jun 2013 #141

He sets the example usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #67

Facts? Demit Jun 2013 #118

Yeah, facts would be appreciated. MADem Jun 2013 #124

Thank you for the quick reply! I know you are very busy in this thread, Demit Jun 2013 #137

This is not ABOUT "agreeing with the OP" and if you read the points I was making MADem Jun 2013 #138

The OP did not say you can't listen in using SIGINT. You are paraphrasing. Demit Jun 2013 #154

ANSWER the OP then. Develop the conversation. MADem Jun 2013 #157

A conversation develops according to how the first one to speak speaks. Demit Jun 2013 #159

The OP is a she, and I wouldn't have a problem if someone posted a response entitled MADem Jun 2013 #161

I am not interested in yet another explication of how mean other people were in this thread Demit Jun 2013 #162

Well, perhaps your best bet would have been to pass this thread by, entirely! MADem Jun 2013 #163

Thank you MADem! sheshe2 Jun 2013 #173

Post removed Post removed Jun 2013 #11

I've seen that suggested before. JW2020 Jun 2013 #14

And I was on the 5-1 jury that hammered that suggestion. nt msanthrope Jun 2013 #140

Thank you! ucrdem Jun 2013 #147

Another thanks nt Progressive dog Jun 2013 #183

Can we stay on topic please uponit7771 Jun 2013 #25

The poster's purpose is to try and derail the thread--that much is obvious. nt MADem Jun 2013 #46

A page out of the OP's own playbook -nt Bradical79 Jun 2013 #61

lol, no kidding. Marr Jun 2013 #86

LOL LondonReign2 Jun 2013 #94

Oooo, you have so many links! That is so impressive!! Demit Jun 2013 #128

Well, if that is true, the place to point it out is in the thread in question--not MADem Jun 2013 #127

If this one gets derailed there are 50 more to choose from! JW2020 Jun 2013 #68

Seems sort of obsessive, this continued swirl of posts from the OP. Katashi_itto Jun 2013 #125

Your point? nt sheshe2 Jun 2013 #174

I doubt it's anything personal. Union Scribe Jun 2013 #177

kr warrior1 Jun 2013 #2

Yes, he did. Now he says 'direct access' means the phone metadata. randome Jun 2013 #4

The word "upstream" on the slide Greenwald released destroyed his claim Recursion Jun 2013 #5

Thanks, you hater you! Scurrilous Jun 2013 #6

DU Rec...nt SidDithers Jun 2013 #8

He's using agency buzzwords to try to make it look like he's not MADem Jun 2013 #9

Put tinfoil above the brass-and-Bakelite key you use to send with riqster Jun 2013 #15

I may put on my pasta strainer, too, just to be safe!!! nt MADem Jun 2013 #24

It's a super-secret program called HOKES riqster Jun 2013 #36

Hee hee! nt MADem Jun 2013 #47

Pasta strainers are ineffective, they found a way to exploit the holes. Rex Jun 2013 #60

I'll line it with a metal bowl, just to be safe! nt MADem Jun 2013 #132

Now he's protesting on behalf of people outside the U.S. randome Jun 2013 #12

His claim doesn't even make sense ProSense Jun 2013 #20

what the hell does he mean by this? Blue_Roses Jun 2013 #168

When I read his explanation or so-called "answer"... Blue_Roses Jun 2013 #166

More Lies. They are not backing away from their initial claims at all usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #13

The should, there's NOTHING showing dedicated or even VPN connection to these company uponit7771 Jun 2013 #28

The people who have firsthand knowledge say you are wrong usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #33

False, there's no network engineer from the NSA making these claims other than him uponit7771 Jun 2013 #37

Whistle-Blower Outs NSA Spy Room at AT&T usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #53

AT&T is not google, I'm talking about his claim that they have DIRECT ACCESS to google .... uponit7771 Jun 2013 #57

He posted TOP SECRET government documents that say that usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #64

False, he posted a powerpoint that makes a claim...I'm asking the HOW on the claim now.... uponit7771 Jun 2013 #79

FYI: just because it's a PowerPoint doesn't make it not TOP SECRET Document usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #83

I don't care if it's ultrasecret, the issue is the content...the PP didn't show HOW the NSA had uponit7771 Jun 2013 #88

note how prosense selectively quotes, and knows no shame, makes the pigs in 1984 look honest Monkie Jun 2013 #32

You fail to mention the leftover whistle blowers from the Bush admin, your last sentence was spin uponit7771 Jun 2013 #49

if that is true and you can prove it i will gladly retract and apologise for that small detail Monkie Jun 2013 #58

No, fuck that come correct...you're telling me that the OP is BS and then place BS in a post about uponit7771 Jun 2013 #70

so 2 of the 6 were bush hold overs if i read the article correctly, so my minor point still stands. Monkie Jun 2013 #85

Doesn't make different if it was one, the statement makes it seem like Obama is being a heavy uponit7771 Jun 2013 #90

you dont think, but it is proven the quotes are selective, and not just in this case. Monkie Jun 2013 #113

Yes. As well as many others usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #59

Obama has prosecuted leakers, not whistleblowers. randome Jun 2013 #63

+1 uponit7771 Jun 2013 #72

Yep, they collect all information, every key stroke, and they can investigate every means of Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #48

"The. cause..." Blue_Roses Jun 2013 #170

Hey, that has been revealed by some of his fans. They seem to think this is for freedom, uses Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #172

If your claim was true, you'd be able to provide some documentation. jeff47 Jun 2013 #144

Not for the sophists it wouldn't because now we have TOP SECRET Documents usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #155

None of those people are going to respond to you in any way that approaches Romulus Quirinus Jun 2013 #158

Yep. Another misleading headline, always designed to smear Snowden. reformist2 Jun 2013 #16

This Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #31

That is what straw men are all about. zeemike Jun 2013 #122

It's Newspeak tblue Jun 2013 #130

I wish I had a good answer for that... zeemike Jun 2013 #143

"What in the world are they trying to protect?" or destroy Corruption Inc Jun 2013 #160

+1, I don't see any dedicated lines switches etc....not even dedicated VPN connections to uponit7771 Jun 2013 #23

what's complete shit, is your op cali Jun 2013 #29

This thread should be taken down Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #30

If you don't think it does... gcomeau Jun 2013 #39

Apparently you don't Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #43

We're really not, but keep telling yourself that. -eom gcomeau Jun 2013 #45

Hey be my guest Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #51

********THANK YOU PROSENSE*********** Snowden is making a claim and has shown NO PROOF uponit7771 Jun 2013 #35

Direct access to the databasees IS direct access B2G Jun 2013 #38

Try to pay attention to *which* databases are being talked about. -eom gcomeau Jun 2013 #41

He changed what he was talking about. He now says 'direct access' means the phone metadata. randome Jun 2013 #66

Wait. What? Floyd_Gondolli Jun 2013 #80

Just a tiny one. Internet, encrypted text files, it's all the same to a computer 'genius'. randome Jun 2013 #103

No proof of dedicated connecton, B2b or even VPN connection beyond googles DMZ to a back end uponit7771 Jun 2013 #76

The internet is not a single network, but numerous networks JoePhilly Jun 2013 #156

it's a series of tubes.... reusrename Jun 2013 #176

you seem to have trouble following the conversation reorg Jun 2013 #40

A fresh opportunity to debunk the totalitarians! usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #42

Getting ahead of the "Obama will defend NSA in the coming days" story HuffPo had up, I see MotherPetrie Jun 2013 #55

Gawd. When does Julian make a guest appearance ucrdem Jun 2013 #62

Got anything more compelling than icons to back your assertion? DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #69

"Look at the shiny object here while the Govt vacuums up all your data from fiber optic cables" dkf Jun 2013 #78

Exactly right dkf fasttense Jun 2013 #97

Chief Justice Roberts appoints the FISA court tblue Jun 2013 #119

If you took those FISA judges and moved them enmasse to the Supreme Court this place would erupt dkf Jun 2013 #150

Thanks ProSense! Iliyah Jun 2013 #93

and what did Nadler (D) say ? KurtNYC Jun 2013 #98

Both? Go Vols Jun 2013 #171

So all the pearl clutchers were wrong, huh? Zoeisright Jun 2013 #100

No, ProSense's Title is not supported by the content of the post at all. MNBrewer Jun 2013 #117

The OP is right Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #102

Thank you. n/t ProSense Jun 2013 #164

Indirect access vs. direct access is a fake difference. All access is indirect or direct limpyhobbler Jun 2013 #112

Do you know what a secure FTP server is? randome Jun 2013 #120

yes I do know exactly what it is. Completely irrelevant to anything. limpyhobbler Jun 2013 #179

Snowden made his own determinations, too. randome Jun 2013 #180

I completely disagree with everything you just said in your post. limpyhobbler Jun 2013 #182

Once again Prosense makes up a misleading title. n-t Logical Jun 2013 #114

And rather than refute the post, you bash the poster. Real smooth. MADem Jun 2013 #135

Shocking, isn't it? n/t xocet Jun 2013 #181

Post removed Post removed Jun 2013 #116

No. They aren't. randome Jun 2013 #121

For all ProSense Jun 2013 #134

of course the claim was a lie. MjolnirTime Jun 2013 #126

So was the content claim: ucrdem Jun 2013 #136

basically? burnodo Jun 2013 #167

is it your life work to take this guy down? backwoodsbob Jun 2013 #169

Thank you ProSense, This whole story reeks~ sheshe2 Jun 2013 #175