General Discussion

BlueStreak

(8,377 posts)

88. I don't believe the pro-privacy people have objected to an open debate.

Mon Jun 17, 2013, 07:16 PM

Jun 2013

What we have objected to is the continuous character assassination on the whistle blower.

That is a dialog that is beneath DU, and I will continue to call people out whenever they try to do ad hominem attacks on Snowden or his girlfriend instead of discussing the issues. That is bullcrap and it doesn't belong here.

The OP on this thread is the closest thing I have seen to some kind of reasonable discussion in opposition to the pro-privacy argument, and I appreciate that. But those who are arguing in favor of what amounts to, at minimum, a slippery slope toward a police state should expect a great deal of push-back from a forum that has "democratic" in its title.

Most of the population of this world lives under totalitarian or at least highly authoritarian regimes, and the US is sadly among those. The only beacons of light at this stage are some of the European/Scandinavian countries, Iceland, Australia, Canada, and New Zealand and maybe Brazil, Chile, and South Africa on a good day. So this is not some vague, academic moot exercise. This is for real.

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The Snowdon Controversy on DU [View all] redstatebluegirl Jun 2013 OP

Well said. blue neen Jun 2013 #1

yes, i am one of those who hopemountain Jun 2013 #103

Very well said. nt mimi85 Jun 2013 #132

If you bring much-needed objectivity to the issues, then you DO belong here, IMO. randome Jun 2013 #2

I agree. HappyMe Jun 2013 #3

There is no debate when people attack each other. Debate is a give and take thing and all sides Lint Head Jun 2013 #4

welcome to the jungle warrprayer Jun 2013 #5

From what I see here on DU. Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #6

. Squinch Jun 2013 #7

This is exactly what I would expect from a board that encourages a diversity of views no matter still_one Jun 2013 #8

I don't believe the pro-privacy people have objected to an open debate. BlueStreak Jun 2013 #88

Who is to judge what is "beneath" du? still_one Jun 2013 #91

The same ad hominem attacks we despise of the teabaggers are beneath DU. BlueStreak Jun 2013 #115

Of course, that is what opinions are for. The argument that Snowden isn't here to defend himself still_one Jun 2013 #117

His STATEMENTS are subject to criticism. No question about that. BlueStreak Jun 2013 #121

A-men! The character assassination should indeed be beneath DU. n/t backscatter712 Jun 2013 #126

ok, Snowden makes you a little nervous Enrique Jun 2013 #9

wrong question. How does President Eric Cantor/Paul Ryan 2015 sound if the repubs win senate/house14 graham4anything Jun 2013 #20

the OP didn't say she was acting as a Democratic operative Enrique Jun 2013 #25

I am answering your post. I am wary of history repeating itself. And I no longer assume anything. graham4anything Jun 2013 #34

I think you're on to something. Why is this issue about Snowden and not the facts? And why in the... marble falls Jun 2013 #71

Now I am laughing, I am not any type of operative :-) redstatebluegirl Jun 2013 #42

Just remember this,,, zeemike Jun 2013 #41

You're absolutely correct. I, myself wonder how this whole privacy thing has taken on a life of it's okaawhatever Jun 2013 #44

Inability to honestly consider the negatives of having freelancing 20-somethings decide what risks patrice Jun 2013 #114

LOL. You are such a card. The Republicans will not impeach Pres Obama because he believes rhett o rick Jun 2013 #123

Dear redstatebluegirl, OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #23

At least someone gets it. Wait Wut Jun 2013 #37

Dear redstatebluegirl, timdog44 Jun 2013 #53

I tried to explain this before & got jumped giftedgirl77 Jun 2013 #93

Right RobertEarl Jun 2013 #98

What I'm saying is giftedgirl77 Jun 2013 #100

Not quite RobertEarl Jun 2013 #105

I'm calling bs giftedgirl77 Jun 2013 #109

That's just what I thought you'd say RobertEarl Jun 2013 #112

no I didn't giftedgirl77 Jun 2013 #144

Well said ismnotwasm Jun 2013 #10

Josh Marshall, wise man, compares it to the OJ trial BeyondGeography Jun 2013 #11

DU and TPM are pretty much all the news sources I need. Josh is good. randome Jun 2013 #87

Thanks for that sanity. nt babylonsister Jun 2013 #108

Sorry, but I'm not trading my privacy for ANYTHING or ANYBODY Downtown Hound Jun 2013 #12

Dear redstatebluegirl, OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #28

Hmmmm. Wait Wut Jun 2013 #38

Yep. Summed it nicely. Number23 Jun 2013 #58

^^This!^^ BrotherIvan Jun 2013 #29

With or against. Black and white. This is the type of absolutism that that does not belong... Blue State Bandit Jun 2013 #33

You are right about absolutism zeemike Jun 2013 #45

While they do not have literal arrest power, they have plenty of power to ruin your life. jeff47 Jun 2013 #49

Well I am on the side of no compromise with evil. zeemike Jun 2013 #83

I don't give a flying fuck about healthy debate Downtown Hound Jun 2013 #51

Dear redstatebluegirl, OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #62

What Downtown Hound said Art_from_Ark Jun 2013 #63

x2 truebrit71 Jun 2013 #146

"healthy debate".... sibelian Jun 2013 #162

This is a global controversey, do not be afraid, and rejoice that you are able to participate usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #13

Good common sense comment. Major Hogwash Jun 2013 #14

+1! sheshe2 Jun 2013 #27

Thanks for a sane comment flamingdem Jun 2013 #15

It actually crossed my Cha Jun 2013 #19

Cha, I actually wrote some of what he was saying yesterday! flamingdem Jun 2013 #24

Thank you so much, flamindem. Cha Jun 2013 #32

haw! flamingdem Jun 2013 #39

ROFL Yep! nt okaawhatever Jun 2013 #52

"Honky please"???? Number23 Jun 2013 #106

I don't like the division that this (& other controversial topics) creates, & I don't participate pacalo Jun 2013 #16

Has given up privacy made you more secure? HooptieWagon Jun 2013 #17

I don’t know … 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #104

Thanks for asking that question. I'm trying to figure this out. patrice Jun 2013 #118

I have asked this same question ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #120

Of course you don't know. HooptieWagon Jun 2013 #171

I think you mean $8 billion, not $80 billion. bornskeptic Jun 2013 #110

NSA's annual budget is $80 billion, 70% goes to private contractors. HooptieWagon Jun 2013 #170

thank-you Blue_Roses Jun 2013 #18

Mahalo redstatebluegirl! Cha Jun 2013 #21

We are pretty much doing what we should be doing. If this were a right wing....... wandy Jun 2013 #22

Yes we are. zeemike Jun 2013 #47

I guess, we will see … 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #107

So you are willing to give up your rights to win an election? zeemike Jun 2013 #111

Well ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #116

Well tell us...how has that worked for you in the past? zeemike Jun 2013 #137

Well ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #149

Well I am glad it has worked out well for you. zeemike Jun 2013 #152

No ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #156

zeemike, there ARE competing principles; those with different opinions from yours are not patrice Jun 2013 #119

Life itself is a god damn risk. zeemike Jun 2013 #136

K&R for a thoughtful post. :) n/t OneGrassRoot Jun 2013 #26

I feel your pain & understand where you giftedgirl77 Jun 2013 #30

Great post. Number23 Jun 2013 #56

Thank you giftedgirl77 Jun 2013 #77

LOL! Mind if I sit with you?? Number23 Jun 2013 #79

not at all giftedgirl77 Jun 2013 #86

Two great posts... Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #84

"Pretty much kills any prospect for honest discussion." Bobbie Jo, I think that's actually the plan Number23 Jun 2013 #85

Thanks, I can't tell you giftedgirl77 Jun 2013 #90

K&R! sheshe2 Jun 2013 #31

I was trying to figure out why the "trash" LWolf Jun 2013 #35

This board has been to some significant extent dedicated to attacking PO ever since Robert Gibbs' patrice Jun 2013 #122

"There is a great and very dangerous assumption in thinking LWolf Jun 2013 #158

Glad to have you on record about that. Maybe I should just ask that question more often. nt patrice Jun 2013 #169

Well, the Dems can only go so far with the "We are better than the GOP" as their motto. n-t Logical Jun 2013 #36

I respectfully disagree. Either you support the constitutional rights of the people or you do not. Demo_Chris Jun 2013 #40

Except opinions differ on the details of those rights. jeff47 Jun 2013 #46

Using that logic a "search warrant" of Fed Ex allows the government to open every package... Demo_Chris Jun 2013 #55

Not at all. FedEx does not own the packages. AT&T owns the metadata. jeff47 Jun 2013 #70

meta-data is a red-herring as the whistle blowers, and now the NSA's OWN TOP SECRET DOCS have shown usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #57

Blasphemer!!!! JoePhilly Jun 2013 #61

"But your position does not allow that debate to proceed." sibelian Jun 2013 #163

IMO, the data should be stored by an entity that has no incentive to misuse it. jeff47 Jun 2013 #166

How many dead people is your version of the constitution worth, Chris? We NEED to know & patrice Jun 2013 #124

Millions. That's how many have already died for the rights some choose to flush... Demo_Chris Jun 2013 #129

And you don't think those deaths will make your hopes less likely not more? Those deaths won't patrice Jun 2013 #130

I would hope the millions who have already died are enough... Demo_Chris Jun 2013 #133

Do you think each one of those millions should be asked if they choose to die for "the principle"?nt patrice Jun 2013 #131

I suspect they will know and accept the risk... Demo_Chris Jun 2013 #135

Accepting and choosing can be 2 extremely different things. & That difference matters to the patrice Jun 2013 #138

I think there are disturbing points on both side of the aisle Samantha Jun 2013 #43

Thanks Sam, I need to remember this! redstatebluegirl Jun 2013 #164

With all due respect Coccydynia Jun 2013 #48

Well, on China jeff47 Jun 2013 #65

Let's review your counter examples: Coccydynia Jun 2013 #82

They covered the gates to Tiananmen Square first. jeff47 Jun 2013 #89

I'm not asking the government to prove a negative Coccydynia Jun 2013 #127

K&R I've been saying that for a while. That DU needs to drop this subject altogether Number23 Jun 2013 #50

Silencing passionate debate on this matter is just what a totalitarian would do, too usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #60

Thanks for agreeing. I say the same thing every time an article from an opposing position Number23 Jun 2013 #64

I am strongly disagreeing with the subject of your post usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #66

That was a post, dear. Not an OP. Number23 Jun 2013 #67

And I still strongly disagree with it, dollface. usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #73

That's your prerogative to do so. Just as it's mine to not really care all that much if you do Number23 Jun 2013 #74

see, now your getting it ;) usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #75

There was nothing to ever "get". Done here. Number23 Jun 2013 #76

Totalitarian!!11one Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #97

Wow bobduca Jun 2013 #69

I'll use my flowing tears to season my sandwich... Number23 Jun 2013 #72

Correction: I just remembered that Mr. Scorpio had a great piece questioning Snowden Number23 Jun 2013 #101

Sorry, hard for me to have a discussion with someone with no critical thinking or harun Jun 2013 #54

Conversely, it could have been Bozo the Clown, Adolf Hitler, or Gallagher blue neen Jun 2013 #68

Shouldn't give anyone our blind trust. We should look at what he has and make up our minds. harun Jun 2013 #148

That is what I will be doing, making up my own mind. blue neen Jun 2013 #161

Do you feel bigger insulting people? redstatebluegirl Jun 2013 #168

I vote issues, not party or politician. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #59

Thank you for voicing something that goes unsaid too often here. DrewFlorida Jun 2013 #78

The only relevant point sulphurdunn Jun 2013 #80

Did Obama's appt. of Rahm Emmanuel as his first Chief of Staff make you nervous? MotherPetrie Jun 2013 #81

Why should you distrust following Ron Paul in this case. ozone_man Jun 2013 #92

I don't "follow" racists in any case. Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #99

Rand, and therefore I would assume Ron, Paul is protecting wide-open PRIVATE assault weapons patrice Jun 2013 #128

"Both" opinions? cprise Jun 2013 #94

Clearly DU has become the Snowdon Discussion Board ThoughtCriminal Jun 2013 #95

Meh, these kerfluffles flare up on DU from time to time. Thicker skin lets you get past them. DRoseDARs Jun 2013 #96

I agree with most of what you have written … 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #102

If we had a clue of how to run a political party this would not divide us. reusrename Jun 2013 #140

Democrats do a pretty good job ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #151

That sounds like the tactics that got us here in the first place. reusrename Jun 2013 #154

More reason ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #157

Not really. reusrename Jun 2013 #159

Agreed ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #160

What about the fuckin' boxes! Vinnie From Indy Jun 2013 #113

What really disgusts me is the character assassination. backscatter712 Jun 2013 #125

We agree about that. The first and strongest turn-off for me in most cases (except patrice Jun 2013 #134

The controversy is over losing privacy, not some guy named Snowden Corruption Inc Jun 2013 #139

Giving up privacy after 9/11, pole dancing, and his love affair with China? HangOnKids Jun 2013 #141

Snowden glows in the dark. sibelian Jun 2013 #142

Fuckin' A brilliant! Vinnie From Indy Jun 2013 #145

Grant Morrison fan? randome Jun 2013 #150

party/presidential loyaly trumps the truth. remember the freepers with bush? boilerbabe Jun 2013 #143

I will say this though, it has made filling up my ignore list alot simpler.... truebrit71 Jun 2013 #147

Good OP Gothmog Jun 2013 #153

You've been reading Will Rogers. asjr Jun 2013 #155

Snowden isnt the important issue. He just opened the box. We need to look into the box to see if rhett o rick Jun 2013 #165

+1 Vanje Jun 2013 #167