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mountain grammy

(29,035 posts)

36. Big money does lose, but it's hard to beat and has elected some real crazies.

Tue Jun 18, 2013, 11:24 AM

Jun 2013

We must never give up on getting the big money out of politics.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/11/opinion/sunday/a-landslide-loss-for-big-money.html?_r=0

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Democrats Risk Losing a Generation to Cynical Libertarianism [View all] kpete Jun 2013 OP

Experience is the best teacher, thank goodness I made it to through the younger years as a strong Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #1

What lessons have you drawn Coccydynia Jun 2013 #55

Just met one from college at a wedding! Exactly as you describe. All was based on selfishness. SugarShack Jun 2013 #126

Its an every man for himself way of thinking.. busterbrown Jun 2013 #58

fairly young.. G_j Jun 2013 #2

But then, again ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #30

Most of the founding fathers lived to a ripe old age. zeemike Jun 2013 #46

Longevity figures ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #60

Deaths of children are what really brought the life expectancy JDPriestly Jun 2013 #73

Children life expectancy started to increase after 1800, as we better understood health. happyslug Jun 2013 #116

Do you know about Semmelweis? JDPriestly Jun 2013 #131

I have read about him, but forgot his name happyslug Jun 2013 #143

Very, very interesting. Thanks. JDPriestly Jun 2013 #144

He was caught up in the 1848 revolution and the Reaction to it. happyslug Jun 2013 #145

I have an ancestor who left Germany and came to the US that same JDPriestly Jun 2013 #155

Jefferson lived to be 83 lbrtbell Jun 2013 #106

although Jefferson lived to the age of 83 G_j Jun 2013 #48

Counting on a voting block Coccydynia Jun 2013 #53

33 is the new 23 haele Jun 2013 #94

And when one ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #107

At that time you did NOT have to even graduate grade school to become a Lawyer happyslug Jun 2013 #125

+1 This is a really neat, informative post Prism Jun 2013 #146

It'd be interesting to see what would happen if the Democrats actually tried Democratic policies. Octafish Jun 2013 #3

Exactly!!!!! Coccydynia Jun 2013 #56

IMO, the reason they don't is that we'd end up with super-majorities in both houses... Octafish Jun 2013 #59

That and also they would lose the perks of hanging out with the 1%. GoneFishin Jun 2013 #76

Thank you for the hearty welcome Coccydynia Jun 2013 #117

Straight to the point. Even an asshole like Truman knew this undeniable truth. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jun 2013 #111

Kos is good for its ProSense Jun 2013 #4

Oh, you caught that, huh? ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #34

Nothing bizarre about that dreamnightwind Jun 2013 #97

It says they would vote gop, if the gop did some things Lordquinton Jun 2013 #119

"I hate goverment" mick063 Jun 2013 #5

"Is a strong political theme now days. " Yes, ProSense Jun 2013 #7

The glue from that ugly rug of his must be seeping through his skull KamaAina Jun 2013 #70

"He has since backed away from this comment." radicalliberal Jun 2013 #114

The CTist, in me ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #38

So where do they go? Andy823 Jun 2013 #47

If you are on the "I hate goverment". bandwagon mick063 Jun 2013 #57

The surveillance program is likely to push a lot of young JDPriestly Jun 2013 #75

It's a Republican talking point AgingAmerican Jun 2013 #79

Obligatory response to Libertarianism posts TalkingDog Jun 2013 #6

That's not at all what most young people want. tblue Jun 2013 #25

+1000 LongTomH Jun 2013 #108

I am not about to cede liberty to the corporate stooges of the the LP or the GOP. toddaa Jun 2013 #153

I've been saying this for years Johonny Jun 2013 #8

Seems like libertarians are now the only ones against extended serveillance practices... allin99 Jun 2013 #49

All the Dem Party needs to do is to detach the Third Way Party that has attached itself to our sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #9

I agree sabrina... Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #10

It's really so simple, isn't it? tblue Jun 2013 #29

Agreed ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #39

Exactly Andy823 Jun 2013 #52

well said! liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #54

I see this "third way party" bandied about all the time here without explanation, what is it? xtraxritical Jun 2013 #66

Google the Third Way and then Google Third Way Policies and see if you recognize some of them sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #71

I'll give a quick summation Populist_Prole Jun 2013 #90

Well thanks, they don't have me onboard and never will. xtraxritical Jun 2013 #92

I think it backfired on them too Populist_Prole Jun 2013 #95

it came from the feeling of certain strategists that there was not enough *money* in the HiPointDem Jun 2013 #149

Yes Populist_Prole Jun 2013 #151

Young people voted this party in 08, not "infiltrators"... allin99 Jun 2013 #81

The voters are not the infiltrators. Where did you get that from my comment? sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #84

I agree, the base didn't stay home... allin99 Jun 2013 #86

and now the same young people are disillusioned and inert. i know some of them. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #150

All true LuvNewcastle Jun 2013 #100

I'm hearing this more and more from my son's friends, Greybnk48 Jun 2013 #11

You have an opportunity to educate them about who Ron and Rand Paul truly are... Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2013 #128

Anecdotal evidence: my personal experience includes seeing Libertarians USE people who have no way patrice Jun 2013 #12

I think there will be a big drop in how many people vote period. People hate both choices. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #13

it's not just young folk who feel they have NO real choices Skittles Jun 2013 #134

Libertarians are just Republicans embarrased to admit it. DCBob Jun 2013 #14

Hard core libertarians actually *do* want less gov't intrusion... allin99 Jun 2013 #42

They sure share a lot of values with them - like racism, gun nuttery flamingdem Jun 2013 #74

Center right politics hasn't worked in the United States Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #15

"take back the Democratic Party from the centrist, corporate-driven "Republican lite" party it has antigop Jun 2013 #16

Agreed Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #20

The GOP has an inside track for winning libertarians with an issue they own Democrats on: Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #17

Part of the reason that's even possible is because there is a sub-cohort amongst Libertarians who, patrice Jun 2013 #18

Maybe. But those folks would be outnumbered on a straight up Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #41

How many addicts vote? No big deal at all. xtraxritical Jun 2013 #69

If you are calling people who use Bohunk68 Jun 2013 #80

You misunderstood dreamnightwind Jun 2013 #98

Yeah but, they sure do deeply affect people around them who do vote & that adds up to bad PR patrice Jun 2013 #142

democrats seem to refuse to take the cues. They can be just as stubborn as the republicans sometimes liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #19

The two parties are operating Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #21

Consumer credit is the Company Store of the 21st Century. (nt) Jackpine Radical Jun 2013 #22

Trouble is the GOP owns Demos on this, & the Party will take its cue... Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #43

same goes for education. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #51

i disagree. We all saw how fast dems switched... allin99 Jun 2013 #82

Yup, this is the very real, but craven, political reason for doing it. woo me with science Jun 2013 #23

If the Democratic party can't figure this out for itself, it is either too stupid to forestpath Jun 2013 #24

K & R ctsnowman Jun 2013 #26

Lets get candidates that will agree to draft and pass Complete Campaign Finance Reform (CCFR) Dustlawyer Jun 2013 #27

+1000000 liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #31

Honk, honk!! mountain grammy Jun 2013 #33

Beep! Beep! Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #45

Honk!! octoberlib Jun 2013 #93

Your quote reminds me of Churchill's quote which conservatives always post. denverbill Jun 2013 #28

The problem is the big money likes the way things are. They like having a "two party" system rhett o rick Jun 2013 #32

Big money does lose, but it's hard to beat and has elected some real crazies. mountain grammy Jun 2013 #36

I have a plan rastaone Jun 2013 #35

Their own damn fault Downtown Hound Jun 2013 #37

Funnily enough, it was Libertarian Mike Gravel said in the first primary... allin99 Jun 2013 #40

Great. So the country falls to the Kochs instead of to the religious right. HughBeaumont Jun 2013 #44

R#33 & K n/t UTUSN Jun 2013 #50

+1 L0oniX Jun 2013 #61

Yes, this is a real danger magellan Jun 2013 #62

three flavors of corpo ice cream, IOW MisterP Jun 2013 #89

And they all taste like crap. n/t magellan Jun 2013 #91

What about the middle age group nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #63

I'm with you in that group nadinbrzezinski. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #68

young liberals who would seriously consider voting Republican IF.. DCBob Jun 2013 #64

Don't forget the War on Reproductive Rights We People Jun 2013 #120

K&R. JDPriestly Jun 2013 #65

Well said! nt historylovr Jun 2013 #87

Show me a libertarian and I'll show you one confused republican. Rex Jun 2013 #67

Repug change is very questionable lark Jun 2013 #72

cut the cord to wall street + crapitalism. pansypoo53219 Jun 2013 #77

GOP will NEVER seize young votes as long as they cling to "family values" grasswire Jun 2013 #78

Yes. The Third Way lesser of two evils strategy has now been stretched beyond the limit Zorra Jun 2013 #83

Perhaps people should stop cheerleading the delusional cynical libertarians? -eom gcomeau Jun 2013 #85

The far left and the far right are both anti-government FarCenter Jun 2013 #88

The Center just wants to be ruled and subjugated by the 1%, yet pretend they live in a democracy, Zorra Jun 2013 #96

+1 dreamnightwind Jun 2013 #99

for baby boomers, it's disconcerting to find that everything we thought centrist in the 80s/90s carolinayellowdog Jun 2013 #102

Sorry but a lot of these so called professed libertarians are as anti-women as the main stream still_one Jun 2013 #101

Logic fail JoePhilly Jun 2013 #103

No, but if they stay home and don't vote, they've allowed the ideology of their opponents to win We People Jun 2013 #122

That's not the arguement that article is making. JoePhilly Jun 2013 #140

That's exactly what I thought when I read the original post. Galraedia Jun 2013 #129

YUP ... and honestly, the entire premise suggests that JoePhilly Jun 2013 #139

Well, when your only options these days seem to be Serve The Servants Jun 2013 #104

good article Locrian Jun 2013 #105

technically the GOP has since 1978 been a four-way coalition MisterP Jun 2013 #115

thanks Locrian Jun 2013 #138

The Corp "Democrats" already lost me, not that I matter one whit to any of them. blkmusclmachine Jun 2013 #109

I've often wondered if the GOP might go the way of the Whigs and we totodeinhere Jun 2013 #110

If Democrats keep supporting corporations over the people, they will go under just like the GOP davidn3600 Jun 2013 #112

Some smart words of warning here. calimary Jun 2013 #113

I voted summer-hazz Jun 2013 #118

Save this thread pmorlan1 Jun 2013 #121

I just saw this posted on Facebook -- Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #123

Repugs will turn on a dime if it suits their Funders. This could almost KoKo Jun 2013 #148

Libertarianism is like giving candy to a child to lure them into Conservatism ErikJ Jun 2013 #124

As opposed to telling people we need to spend $60 Billion/year filling prisons with potheads? Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #162

Whoa whoa whoa LostOne4Ever Jun 2013 #127

Yeah fighting the 'war on marijuana' is going so well for libertarians...NOT Galraedia Jun 2013 #130

They'll figure out Rand and The Koch Brothers pretty quickly emulatorloo Jun 2013 #132

Labels Don't Matter! They're ALL Fucked Up!!! DeSwiss Jun 2013 #133

To my way of thinking the Republicans don't have a libertarian wing, they do have an authoritarian Uncle Joe Jun 2013 #135

Good idea lets start with...... BrainDrain Jun 2013 #136

Plenty of posts on this board abelenkpe Jun 2013 #137

which "Libertarian talking points", specifically? Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #157

see if they label people who want to legalize marijuana as libertarians that means the party doesn't liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #160

& they're gonna lose a lot of people that way, if they don't remove the head from the ass pronto. Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #161

oh, I think this NSA business is finally going to drive some liberals over the edge. We've been liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #163

I look at it as, I'd like Obama to take this opportunity in the 2nd term to recommit to some values. Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #164

We can always hope so, but so far hope has gotten us nothing but disappointment. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #165

I disagree. He committed to LGBT marriage equality; that's a first, and a brave move Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #166

Not a cynical libertarianism but an enlightened anarchism lhooq Jun 2013 #141

Politicians risk losing a nation to disillusionment YoungDemCA Jun 2013 #147

Not according to the people in the know here! We have them locked up tight! Safetykitten Jun 2013 #152

Call me when the Libertarian Party has a serious chance treestar Jun 2013 #154

How about we stop spending $60B a year to fight pot smoking, stop using SWAT teams to arrest granny Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #156

exactly. Ending the war on drugs is not some impossible dream. It is a very easy and simple fix. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #158

And it would go a long way towards addressing these so-called "libertarian" objections. Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #159

Spend much time around these kids? Cynical libertarianism is their ideological home. Sen. Walter Sobchak Jun 2013 #167