General Discussion

allin99

(894 posts)

86. I agree, the base didn't stay home...

Tue Jun 18, 2013, 01:18 PM

Jun 2013

they came out. (i actually agree with you on every part except for "infiltrators). the people chose in 08. I know they didn't realize who he was, but you can see that the base of the party is now backing extended surveillance. (64% of dems now say it's okay). That means it's the people creating this new dem to the right party b/c all the sudden base dems are backing this. So it's still the voters chose these people. Maybe unbeknowest to them but we see over and over again "i'm not happy but i'll vote for them anyway", we're all caught in this dilemma. Who the heck can i vote for, a D or an R, so the D's vote D no matter what the D party does. So i am in agreement with you, why did obama appoint republicans. He never intended not to, people read whatever they wanted to into the campaign, even when he clearly said i'll put republicans in my cabinent, said he wanted to go to war with pakistan, etc. So they're not infiltrators, we the D's put them in by putting someone in who put them in. Even though people didn't know they were doing it. So yes, in 2010 young people said, oh wait, i didn't sign up for this, but if obama is actively upping involvement in syria, extending surveillance, then it's not like the people by his side are sneaking in there. He's putting them their and following bush's policies all on his own.

So i am actually in full agreement with you.

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Democrats Risk Losing a Generation to Cynical Libertarianism [View all] kpete Jun 2013 OP

Experience is the best teacher, thank goodness I made it to through the younger years as a strong Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #1

What lessons have you drawn Coccydynia Jun 2013 #55

Just met one from college at a wedding! Exactly as you describe. All was based on selfishness. SugarShack Jun 2013 #126

Its an every man for himself way of thinking.. busterbrown Jun 2013 #58

fairly young.. G_j Jun 2013 #2

But then, again ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #30

Most of the founding fathers lived to a ripe old age. zeemike Jun 2013 #46

Longevity figures ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #60

Deaths of children are what really brought the life expectancy JDPriestly Jun 2013 #73

Children life expectancy started to increase after 1800, as we better understood health. happyslug Jun 2013 #116

Do you know about Semmelweis? JDPriestly Jun 2013 #131

I have read about him, but forgot his name happyslug Jun 2013 #143

Very, very interesting. Thanks. JDPriestly Jun 2013 #144

He was caught up in the 1848 revolution and the Reaction to it. happyslug Jun 2013 #145

I have an ancestor who left Germany and came to the US that same JDPriestly Jun 2013 #155

Jefferson lived to be 83 lbrtbell Jun 2013 #106

although Jefferson lived to the age of 83 G_j Jun 2013 #48

Counting on a voting block Coccydynia Jun 2013 #53

33 is the new 23 haele Jun 2013 #94

And when one ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #107

At that time you did NOT have to even graduate grade school to become a Lawyer happyslug Jun 2013 #125

+1 This is a really neat, informative post Prism Jun 2013 #146

It'd be interesting to see what would happen if the Democrats actually tried Democratic policies. Octafish Jun 2013 #3

Exactly!!!!! Coccydynia Jun 2013 #56

IMO, the reason they don't is that we'd end up with super-majorities in both houses... Octafish Jun 2013 #59

That and also they would lose the perks of hanging out with the 1%. GoneFishin Jun 2013 #76

Thank you for the hearty welcome Coccydynia Jun 2013 #117

Straight to the point. Even an asshole like Truman knew this undeniable truth. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jun 2013 #111

Kos is good for its ProSense Jun 2013 #4

Oh, you caught that, huh? ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #34

Nothing bizarre about that dreamnightwind Jun 2013 #97

It says they would vote gop, if the gop did some things Lordquinton Jun 2013 #119

"I hate goverment" mick063 Jun 2013 #5

"Is a strong political theme now days. " Yes, ProSense Jun 2013 #7

The glue from that ugly rug of his must be seeping through his skull KamaAina Jun 2013 #70

"He has since backed away from this comment." radicalliberal Jun 2013 #114

The CTist, in me ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #38

So where do they go? Andy823 Jun 2013 #47

If you are on the "I hate goverment". bandwagon mick063 Jun 2013 #57

The surveillance program is likely to push a lot of young JDPriestly Jun 2013 #75

It's a Republican talking point AgingAmerican Jun 2013 #79

Obligatory response to Libertarianism posts TalkingDog Jun 2013 #6

That's not at all what most young people want. tblue Jun 2013 #25

+1000 LongTomH Jun 2013 #108

I am not about to cede liberty to the corporate stooges of the the LP or the GOP. toddaa Jun 2013 #153

I've been saying this for years Johonny Jun 2013 #8

Seems like libertarians are now the only ones against extended serveillance practices... allin99 Jun 2013 #49

All the Dem Party needs to do is to detach the Third Way Party that has attached itself to our sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #9

I agree sabrina... Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #10

It's really so simple, isn't it? tblue Jun 2013 #29

Agreed ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #39

Exactly Andy823 Jun 2013 #52

well said! liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #54

I see this "third way party" bandied about all the time here without explanation, what is it? xtraxritical Jun 2013 #66

Google the Third Way and then Google Third Way Policies and see if you recognize some of them sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #71

I'll give a quick summation Populist_Prole Jun 2013 #90

Well thanks, they don't have me onboard and never will. xtraxritical Jun 2013 #92

I think it backfired on them too Populist_Prole Jun 2013 #95

it came from the feeling of certain strategists that there was not enough *money* in the HiPointDem Jun 2013 #149

Yes Populist_Prole Jun 2013 #151

Young people voted this party in 08, not "infiltrators"... allin99 Jun 2013 #81

The voters are not the infiltrators. Where did you get that from my comment? sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #84

I agree, the base didn't stay home... allin99 Jun 2013 #86

and now the same young people are disillusioned and inert. i know some of them. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #150

All true LuvNewcastle Jun 2013 #100

I'm hearing this more and more from my son's friends, Greybnk48 Jun 2013 #11

You have an opportunity to educate them about who Ron and Rand Paul truly are... Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2013 #128

Anecdotal evidence: my personal experience includes seeing Libertarians USE people who have no way patrice Jun 2013 #12

I think there will be a big drop in how many people vote period. People hate both choices. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #13

it's not just young folk who feel they have NO real choices Skittles Jun 2013 #134

Libertarians are just Republicans embarrased to admit it. DCBob Jun 2013 #14

Hard core libertarians actually *do* want less gov't intrusion... allin99 Jun 2013 #42

They sure share a lot of values with them - like racism, gun nuttery flamingdem Jun 2013 #74

Center right politics hasn't worked in the United States Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #15

"take back the Democratic Party from the centrist, corporate-driven "Republican lite" party it has antigop Jun 2013 #16

Agreed Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #20

The GOP has an inside track for winning libertarians with an issue they own Democrats on: Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #17

Part of the reason that's even possible is because there is a sub-cohort amongst Libertarians who, patrice Jun 2013 #18

Maybe. But those folks would be outnumbered on a straight up Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #41

How many addicts vote? No big deal at all. xtraxritical Jun 2013 #69

If you are calling people who use Bohunk68 Jun 2013 #80

You misunderstood dreamnightwind Jun 2013 #98

Yeah but, they sure do deeply affect people around them who do vote & that adds up to bad PR patrice Jun 2013 #142

democrats seem to refuse to take the cues. They can be just as stubborn as the republicans sometimes liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #19

The two parties are operating Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #21

Consumer credit is the Company Store of the 21st Century. (nt) Jackpine Radical Jun 2013 #22

Trouble is the GOP owns Demos on this, & the Party will take its cue... Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #43

same goes for education. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #51

i disagree. We all saw how fast dems switched... allin99 Jun 2013 #82

Yup, this is the very real, but craven, political reason for doing it. woo me with science Jun 2013 #23

If the Democratic party can't figure this out for itself, it is either too stupid to forestpath Jun 2013 #24

K & R ctsnowman Jun 2013 #26

Lets get candidates that will agree to draft and pass Complete Campaign Finance Reform (CCFR) Dustlawyer Jun 2013 #27

+1000000 liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #31

Honk, honk!! mountain grammy Jun 2013 #33

Beep! Beep! Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #45

Honk!! octoberlib Jun 2013 #93

Your quote reminds me of Churchill's quote which conservatives always post. denverbill Jun 2013 #28

The problem is the big money likes the way things are. They like having a "two party" system rhett o rick Jun 2013 #32

Big money does lose, but it's hard to beat and has elected some real crazies. mountain grammy Jun 2013 #36

I have a plan rastaone Jun 2013 #35

Their own damn fault Downtown Hound Jun 2013 #37

Funnily enough, it was Libertarian Mike Gravel said in the first primary... allin99 Jun 2013 #40

Great. So the country falls to the Kochs instead of to the religious right. HughBeaumont Jun 2013 #44

R#33 & K n/t UTUSN Jun 2013 #50

+1 L0oniX Jun 2013 #61

Yes, this is a real danger magellan Jun 2013 #62

three flavors of corpo ice cream, IOW MisterP Jun 2013 #89

And they all taste like crap. n/t magellan Jun 2013 #91

What about the middle age group nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #63

I'm with you in that group nadinbrzezinski. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #68

young liberals who would seriously consider voting Republican IF.. DCBob Jun 2013 #64

Don't forget the War on Reproductive Rights We People Jun 2013 #120

K&R. JDPriestly Jun 2013 #65

Well said! nt historylovr Jun 2013 #87

Show me a libertarian and I'll show you one confused republican. Rex Jun 2013 #67

Repug change is very questionable lark Jun 2013 #72

cut the cord to wall street + crapitalism. pansypoo53219 Jun 2013 #77

GOP will NEVER seize young votes as long as they cling to "family values" grasswire Jun 2013 #78

Yes. The Third Way lesser of two evils strategy has now been stretched beyond the limit Zorra Jun 2013 #83

Perhaps people should stop cheerleading the delusional cynical libertarians? -eom gcomeau Jun 2013 #85

The far left and the far right are both anti-government FarCenter Jun 2013 #88

The Center just wants to be ruled and subjugated by the 1%, yet pretend they live in a democracy, Zorra Jun 2013 #96

+1 dreamnightwind Jun 2013 #99

for baby boomers, it's disconcerting to find that everything we thought centrist in the 80s/90s carolinayellowdog Jun 2013 #102

Sorry but a lot of these so called professed libertarians are as anti-women as the main stream still_one Jun 2013 #101

Logic fail JoePhilly Jun 2013 #103

No, but if they stay home and don't vote, they've allowed the ideology of their opponents to win We People Jun 2013 #122

That's not the arguement that article is making. JoePhilly Jun 2013 #140

That's exactly what I thought when I read the original post. Galraedia Jun 2013 #129

YUP ... and honestly, the entire premise suggests that JoePhilly Jun 2013 #139

Well, when your only options these days seem to be Serve The Servants Jun 2013 #104

good article Locrian Jun 2013 #105

technically the GOP has since 1978 been a four-way coalition MisterP Jun 2013 #115

thanks Locrian Jun 2013 #138

The Corp "Democrats" already lost me, not that I matter one whit to any of them. blkmusclmachine Jun 2013 #109

I've often wondered if the GOP might go the way of the Whigs and we totodeinhere Jun 2013 #110

If Democrats keep supporting corporations over the people, they will go under just like the GOP davidn3600 Jun 2013 #112

Some smart words of warning here. calimary Jun 2013 #113

I voted summer-hazz Jun 2013 #118

Save this thread pmorlan1 Jun 2013 #121

I just saw this posted on Facebook -- Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #123

Repugs will turn on a dime if it suits their Funders. This could almost KoKo Jun 2013 #148

Libertarianism is like giving candy to a child to lure them into Conservatism ErikJ Jun 2013 #124

As opposed to telling people we need to spend $60 Billion/year filling prisons with potheads? Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #162

Whoa whoa whoa LostOne4Ever Jun 2013 #127

Yeah fighting the 'war on marijuana' is going so well for libertarians...NOT Galraedia Jun 2013 #130

They'll figure out Rand and The Koch Brothers pretty quickly emulatorloo Jun 2013 #132

Labels Don't Matter! They're ALL Fucked Up!!! DeSwiss Jun 2013 #133

To my way of thinking the Republicans don't have a libertarian wing, they do have an authoritarian Uncle Joe Jun 2013 #135

Good idea lets start with...... BrainDrain Jun 2013 #136

Plenty of posts on this board abelenkpe Jun 2013 #137

which "Libertarian talking points", specifically? Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #157

see if they label people who want to legalize marijuana as libertarians that means the party doesn't liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #160

& they're gonna lose a lot of people that way, if they don't remove the head from the ass pronto. Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #161

oh, I think this NSA business is finally going to drive some liberals over the edge. We've been liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #163

I look at it as, I'd like Obama to take this opportunity in the 2nd term to recommit to some values. Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #164

We can always hope so, but so far hope has gotten us nothing but disappointment. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #165

I disagree. He committed to LGBT marriage equality; that's a first, and a brave move Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #166

Not a cynical libertarianism but an enlightened anarchism lhooq Jun 2013 #141

Politicians risk losing a nation to disillusionment YoungDemCA Jun 2013 #147

Not according to the people in the know here! We have them locked up tight! Safetykitten Jun 2013 #152

Call me when the Libertarian Party has a serious chance treestar Jun 2013 #154

How about we stop spending $60B a year to fight pot smoking, stop using SWAT teams to arrest granny Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #156

exactly. Ending the war on drugs is not some impossible dream. It is a very easy and simple fix. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #158

And it would go a long way towards addressing these so-called "libertarian" objections. Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #159

Spend much time around these kids? Cynical libertarianism is their ideological home. Sen. Walter Sobchak Jun 2013 #167