General Discussion

humbled_opinion

(4,423 posts)

107. I folllow everything you stated....

Tue Jun 18, 2013, 09:55 PM

Jun 2013

However, he is President now, has been President for 4 years and these are his programs in place now, they may fit the definition of legal when measured against what Bush did but are you actually in support of the current programs? Do you believe that they are transparent? (would we even be aware if it wasn't for Edward Snowden)? Do you believe the oversight is enough? In other words do you trust a future President Sarah Palin to manage the very same programs even though you will personally feel that she would abuse the data collected.....

The reason I want to hold the President accountable is for that very purpose....Never let a future republican be able to claim that the abuse of liberty is thanks to Democratic enacted and managed programs..

Many smarter than me have reviewed these programs in their existing form and think they are unconstitutional, lack the correct oversight, are not transparent and frankly are dangerous to Democracy and Liberty.

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No, one is not a racist merely for opposing this administration on surveillance policy [View all] cali Jun 2013 OP

Lets have the debate Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #1

I still have a couple benefits of the doubt left. I think Obama also welcomes this opportunity leveymg Jun 2013 #38

Oh, please. Coccydynia Jun 2013 #77

Wow, I'm not able to see it that way tavalon Jun 2013 #181

I'm sorry, but when you start screaming NAZI... ConservativeDemocrat Jun 2013 #212

Right. H2O Man Jun 2013 #2

That meme is getting old and tired. Thanks Cali, great post..n/t monmouth3 Jun 2013 #5

Thank you, H2O Man. Jackpine Radical Jun 2013 #90

I'm as black as Obama and I hate this tblue Jun 2013 #109

Yes, they will, they will do anything, no matter how little sense it makes, if you dare to criticize sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #137

You're clearly not black enough to understand tavalon Jun 2013 #182

A despicable tactic, and one which diminishes the tragedy and evil of actual racism, to use it as sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #133

Yup tavalon Jun 2013 #183

+1 exactly. SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #3

That thread floored me, premium Jun 2013 #4

I can guess. dkf Jun 2013 #31

And you'd probably be right. premium Jun 2013 #35

DUMBEST. OP. EVER. tblue Jun 2013 #113

Thank you! This is NOT ABOUT RACE... Raster Jun 2013 #219

The same lot cast the same accusation at LGBT people for opposing bigotry toward Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #6

GDP on DU2 was horrible toward our LGBT community (not LGBT myself, but ally). demmiblue Jun 2013 #8

+2 xchrom Jun 2013 #16

+ a zillion Jamastiene Jun 2013 #65

This message was self-deleted by its author ReRe Jun 2013 #122

YUP Maven Jun 2013 #205

Only a fool or transparent liar would suggest otherwise LittleBlue Jun 2013 #7

Or, a transparent fool pintobean Jun 2013 #9

I could not agree more. Savannahmann Jun 2013 #10

It definitely is Whisp Jun 2013 #11

The US government has been filled with corruption for years, this is not about Obama Bjorn Against Jun 2013 #21

Thank you, one of the most despicable uses of an issue that has caused so much suffering for sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #141

But I must say my tea party relatives all think NSA and IRS will target them. DevonRex Jun 2013 #48

I don't think centrists have any standing to exploit LGBT rights please note that Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #172

And i disagree with them completely. Telling LGBTs they have to wait DevonRex Jun 2013 #204

There's even more crap than LGBT rights in immigration bill. H-1B visas are killer for me... cascadiance Jun 2013 #213

LOL. I haven't heard that one yet, thus it isn't on my top ten list of worshipers' excuses. PSPS Jun 2013 #12

here ya go Skittles Jun 2013 #72

DURec leftstreet Jun 2013 #13

There is the possibility that when Obama got into office he was told that we rhett o rick Jun 2013 #14

I think that would be putting the Enthusiast Jun 2013 #148

There is also the possibility, posited by the late Bill Hicks tavalon Jun 2013 #185

HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Jun 2013 #15

Some will say anything to avoid the issue usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #17

I must have the OP of that thread on ignore... backscatter712 Jun 2013 #18

Thanks cali. The racist card is really a pathetic thing Autumn Jun 2013 #19

It's a pathetic delfection 99% of the time Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #164

Every administration comes up with strategies to keep the base in line. This one was obvious. yardwork Jun 2013 #20

What did he expect would be the result when he threw the professional left under the bus. L0oniX Jun 2013 #196

He doesn't care. yardwork Jun 2013 #198

If you tally all the posts made by the pro-surveillance group Maedhros Jun 2013 #22

The lady doth protest too much, methinks. MjolnirTime Jun 2013 #23

What the fuck is that supposed to mean? The Link Jun 2013 #24

about as Progressive as Ralph Nader. MjolnirTime Jun 2013 #25

sorry, I'm not a Nader fan and my politics don't align with his on most issues cali Jun 2013 #27

I have no idea if you're a racist. But you're definitely not a Democrat. MjolnirTime Jun 2013 #30

then why insinuate that I am a racist? If you don't know that I am and cali Jun 2013 #41

Post removed Post removed Jun 2013 #47

fail. gad. I post facts and evidence and you pull 1984 crap cali Jun 2013 #52

You mean most Old Elmers. Most DUers actually support our Party and President. MjolnirTime Jun 2013 #55

first of all you're the one doing the screaming. cali Jun 2013 #59

It's the same recs from the same people who always rec up your posts. MjolnirTime Jun 2013 #63

oh dear. now I see. you dwell in lala land and just make shit up. cali Jun 2013 #66

I don't think you would care what I say if you believed that. MjolnirTime Jun 2013 #68

lol. you're in bizzarro land. cali Jun 2013 #76

LOL, you sound jealous. Funny. n-t Logical Jun 2013 #92

Well here's a rec you won't recognize theHandpuppet Jun 2013 #160

Excellent, undeniably true point. Enthusiast Jun 2013 #149

Well lookee here, premium Jun 2013 #58

Jury results DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #51

thank you. I didn't alert. I don't often. cali Jun 2013 #54

nowadays, it's not so easy for a small clique to run roughshod over the rest of us by alerting MjolnirTime Jun 2013 #60

alerting in concert, huh? DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #62

Post removed Post removed Jun 2013 #64

You called it. Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #108

not even close to being accurate. cali Jun 2013 #110

Yeah Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #112

I alert maybe once or twice a year tavalon Jun 2013 #189

The post didn't say anyone was racist michigandem58 Jun 2013 #153

I alerted on the post too tavalon Jun 2013 #188

You have no idea what a Democrat is. leveymg Jun 2013 #45

MjolnirTime, this exchange shows you're not the kind of person I'd defile myself by associating with backscatter712 Jun 2013 #84

Sorry you lost the argument and had to resort to ridiculousness. Hissyspit Jun 2013 #150

I don't often agree w/ Cali - but that's a lie xchrom Jun 2013 #42

we're all coming out of the closet on this one. DITTO! Raster Jun 2013 #218

Fuck, isn't there a Godwin for this sort of flame baiting? tavalon Jun 2013 #187

That (s)he read someone else quote Shakespeare and thought it made them sound intellectual. Egalitarian Thug Jun 2013 #140

really? are you calling me a racist? answer yes or no. cali Jun 2013 #26

you built the straw man. now you can dance with him. MjolnirTime Jun 2013 #28

No, you made the accusation. Now you can back it up. Demit Jun 2013 #33

oh no I didn't. YOU absolutely insinuated that I was a racist. It's vile and totally contemptible cali Jun 2013 #36

you insinuated that all those who defend the President are calling the rest of you racists MjolnirTime Jun 2013 #50

uh, grab a clue, little pumpkin. cali Jun 2013 #57

Consider me a drama queen also. I have not read that thread, I read the headline which was enough. sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #134

Don't waste any H2O Man Jun 2013 #71

you are so right. cali Jun 2013 #78

You can't even answer cali's question honestly, premium Jun 2013 #75

Have the guts to just say what you mean. nt Union Scribe Jun 2013 #127

LOL, "10 posts hidden in 90 days", you seems to have an anger problem! n-t Logical Jun 2013 #93

Wow. premium Jun 2013 #97

Me too. I thought 5 was the breaking point. n-t Logical Jun 2013 #99

5.03% of posts hidden? That's 1 in 20! Holy MOLY! MNBrewer Jun 2013 #118

Plus 2 more just from this thread ...not yet added. L0oniX Jun 2013 #197

How did he get two posts hidden in the same thread? nm rhett o rick Jun 2013 #214

He's a quick one ain't he. L0oniX Jun 2013 #221

It's very right wing to refuse to discuss it treestar Jun 2013 #156

that's ridiculous. I'm more than willing to discuss racism cali Jun 2013 #168

Some of it may be treestar Jun 2013 #176

The MjolnirTime doth think too little, methinks. tavalon Jun 2013 #186

Nobody cares what you think iamthebandfanman Jun 2013 #203

No, Mjolnir. sibelian Jun 2013 #210

Correct. The corollary: one is not an apologist for feeling skeptical about Snowden's claims arcane1 Jun 2013 #29

The point is you are not supposed to have evidence...it's secret. dkf Jun 2013 #34

" You need blind trust and suspension of disbelief or you are a racist." arcane1 Jun 2013 #117

I'll buy that. cali Jun 2013 #39

It doesn't matter what you say, kiva Jun 2013 #32

Good post TomClash Jun 2013 #37

Identity Politics, a favorite trope for the sock puppets, apologists, and cheerleaders. blkmusclmachine Jun 2013 #40

Maybe Obama is working with eyes wide open, has listened when the surveillance program was explained Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #43

I suspect my response on that thread will not jury as well as the OP did... Earth_First Jun 2013 #44

yeah? well I understand just how you feel. I have nothing but contempt cali Jun 2013 #46

It's really gotten out of hand... Earth_First Jun 2013 #49

+1 Little Star Jun 2013 #56

If it's hidden, wear it on your Transparency page with pride! backscatter712 Jun 2013 #89

New tactic? I see ONE opening post alleging it's because Obama is black. One. KittyWampus Jun 2013 #53

Nope it's that op and the accusation has been made within other threads cali Jun 2013 #61

look how many DUers agreed Skittles Jun 2013 #74

x2 AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #120

This latino agress with you DonCoquixote Jun 2013 #67

I'm absolutely SICK of them Skittles Jun 2013 #69

Oh my, did a right wing straw man come true? alp227 Jun 2013 #70

damn right... nradisic Jun 2013 #73

You know why I like you Cali? Puglover Jun 2013 #79

thanks. that made me laugh cali Jun 2013 #80

Because Cali tends to piss off asscarrots? L0oniX Jun 2013 #231

This message was self-deleted by its author backscatter712 Jun 2013 #81

honestly? I don't think we're much better when we use that kind of language. cali Jun 2013 #82

Fair enough, but I'm sick of this fascist crap. backscatter712 Jun 2013 #86

I think it's easy to bring them to Snowden's side. reusrename Jun 2013 #111

"They're somewhat like H2O Man Jun 2013 #87

This message was self-deleted by its author premium Jun 2013 #83

I didn't give a crap when the republicans called me anti-American or communist. Why would I care liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #85

The administration inherited an apparatus and a state of war Babel_17 Jun 2013 #88

Obama switched his position on FISA in July 2008 while still Senator and explained why. JaneyVee Jun 2013 #91

No he doesn't. Not one quote. not one word. that article is about the disappointment cali Jun 2013 #94

Oh, didn't mean in that article he explains, he explained his switch around July 2008 and JaneyVee Jun 2013 #96

that "thought" is by far the most stupid thing I've read here on DU stupidicus Jun 2013 #95

race is one of the main reasons I am against it La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2013 #98

Frankly, ProSense Jun 2013 #100

I folllow everything you stated.... humbled_opinion Jun 2013 #107

/\ I'd like to see DU's NSA Fanclub answer these points. /\ Vanje Jun 2013 #209

K&R MotherPetrie Jun 2013 #101

rec. nt Demo_Chris Jun 2013 #102

knr Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #103

No it's not because he is black JustAnotherGen Jun 2013 #104

I think that's an accurate take. of course there's a lot of evidence that opposition to Obama cali Jun 2013 #106

From that great sage prolific show I love JustAnotherGen Jun 2013 #115

I remember the primaries and the 2008 whisper hush hush campaign a certain 3rd person running graham4anything Jun 2013 #145

I think there is a difference JustAnotherGen Jun 2013 #171

"If PMs amongs black DUer's could talk..." Girrrrl, Number23 Jun 2013 #119

''No, one is not a racist merely for opposing this administration on surveillance policy.'' DeSwiss Jun 2013 #105

Thank you, Cali. Your OP is right on. scarletwoman Jun 2013 #114

No one deserves to be called "apologist" for merely treestar Jun 2013 #116

And you keep pretending the law is being followed and is actually legitimate Hydra Jun 2013 #123

You keep pretending there are no courts treestar Jun 2013 #152

It is being challenged. And for the hundredth time, just because something is legal doesn't cali Jun 2013 #155

For the hundredth time treestar Jun 2013 #158

Context for readers! A post by treestar from her rant 'gays have plenty of rights' Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #170

This thread is not about gay rights treestar Jun 2013 #175

It's abhorent and unconstitutional tavalon Jun 2013 #193

That was already tried. westerebus Jun 2013 #165

Appeal that to the courts treestar Jun 2013 #174

It couldn't be done until Snowden leaked the program Hydra Jun 2013 #201

Well that makes two of us who've tried. westerebus Jun 2013 #229

I know a lot of people have posted resonable points to this poster's points Hydra Jun 2013 #232

Around here the truth * requires * an advocate. westerebus Jun 2013 #235

Do you honestly think the words "apologist" and "racist" Union Scribe Jun 2013 #128

Oh please it is meant as an insult here treestar Jun 2013 #154

Um... Hissyspit Jun 2013 #151

K&R suffragette Jun 2013 #121

K&R ReRe Jun 2013 #124

It's a rather pathetic attempt to silence criticism of Obama's policies. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #125

So why was it not a huge scandal under Bush? Scootaloo Jun 2013 #126

I remember it was a big deal. BlueCheese Jun 2013 #130

That sounds more like "endorsement" than "scandal" Scootaloo Jun 2013 #131

I suppose Congress endorsed it. BlueCheese Jun 2013 #132

Yeah, that one hurt tavalon Jun 2013 #194

It was a huge scandal under bush. for fuck's sake, just google it. cali Jun 2013 #146

This ^^^^^^ treestar Jun 2013 #177

It WAS Maven Jun 2013 #208

Thank you for speaking up so clearly and forcefully. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #129

Thank you!! +1000 nt CokeMachine Jun 2013 #135

President Obama asked us felix_numinous Jun 2013 #136

You are correct, thanks for posting this, I thought about doing so, then considered the sources sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #138

Race didn't stop majority of voters from electing Obama twice. HooptieWagon Jun 2013 #139

Someday, we will have a RW GOP Prez with these powers that Obama has maintained so rigorously... nikto Jun 2013 #142

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Jun 2013 #143

I have had many disagreements with you over the years, Cali Generic Other Jun 2013 #144

GO, you've eloquently described the situation and I feel the same way suffragette Jun 2013 #190

Completely agree with you, Cali steve2470 Jun 2013 #147

this is what happens when you let one group have this done to them dsc Jun 2013 #157

You are correct. Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #166

I entirely agree. nt sibelian Jun 2013 #207

Agree With The OP - The 11-Dimensional Chess Defense Has Grown Tiresome At Best cantbeserious Jun 2013 #159

Cali, sweetie. . .let me explain it simply. Bush did the same thing and he's a Republican, so it's Nanjing to Seoul Jun 2013 #161

Two of them are by the same poster, Uzair: demmiblue Jun 2013 #162

k&r Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #163

BULLSH*T! SkyDaddy7 Jun 2013 #167

that's such a ridiculous charge that I can't even feel irritated about it. cali Jun 2013 #169

Pull that one out of your ass, did you? tavalon Jun 2013 #195

Kidney Stone of TRUTH! SkyDaddy7 Jun 2013 #211

Goodness me. Disturbing, is it? sibelian Jun 2013 #206

Well, we know only racists would be against putting Obama on Mt Rushmore jsr Jun 2013 #173

I am totally disgusted. sibelian Jun 2013 #178

Well, here is an example of the mindset Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #179

That one has been used up, as far as I'm concerned tavalon Jun 2013 #180

Don't post this in the B. Obama group, or they will ban you too. Vincardog Jun 2013 #184

"too"??? L0oniX Jun 2013 #199

As they did me, for having the gall to state that there was no evidence of the unconstitutional NSA Vincardog Jun 2013 #200

yes, they have a beautiful walled garden over there.. frylock Jun 2013 #215

They are as welcome to their echo chamber as the fools at Faux. Vincardog Jun 2013 #237

Thank you... onyourleft Jun 2013 #191

My very first rec. n/t Butterbean Jun 2013 #192

All liberals who question our president are racists... iamthebandfanman Jun 2013 #202

Wah wah wah. Zoeisright Jun 2013 #216

I do so love such a brilliant response. cali Jun 2013 #217

+1000 Logical Jun 2013 #236

I agree heaven05 Jun 2013 #220

It mainly communicates "We have no argument." DirkGently Jun 2013 #222

Just strolling around, the "NSA critics are racists" theme is sprouting up all over. DirkGently Jun 2013 #223

I think it's meant to silence and discredit critics. pathetic, creepy shit. cali Jun 2013 #224

Mostly it just outs those without an argument (or scruples). DirkGently Jun 2013 #225

+1 Skip Intro Jun 2013 #228

A call has gone out. They want to drown everyone else out. Skip Intro Jun 2013 #226

It's a shame, because the topic IS worthy of contentious debate. DirkGently Jun 2013 #227

The usual gang of asscarrots. L0oniX Jun 2013 #230

Typical. n-t Logical Jun 2013 #234

Needs to stay bumped! n-t Logical Jun 2013 #233