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Pholus

(4,062 posts)
9. Well, we can look at the evidence of course...
Wed Jun 19, 2013, 07:55 AM
Jun 2013

LIST OF PRIMARY EVIDENCE (from US government claims, http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/10/nsa-spying-scandal-what-we-have-learned)

a) VERIZON METADATA

I see estimates of a trillion phone calls per year in the US. If each call has 80 characters of "metadata" (number called, duration, only a couple other things as we've been told), 80 trillion bytes would be 80 Terabytes/year. This "database" would easily sit 4-5 blade servers in someone's office. Furthermore if we are to trust what we were told just this week, only 300 numbers were targeted. My personal research data takes 20 TB so I can say with certainty that the project officially described is easily capable of being run out of a single office room on a single server by a team of 4-6 people.

This number is completely consistent with other estimates (the guy who runs the Internet Archive, for example) who says even content is not that expensive to store.

http://blog.archive.org/2013/06/15/cost-to-store-all-us-phonecalls-made-in-a-year-in-cloud-storage-so-it-could-be-datamined/

b) BOUNDLESS INFORMANT

Another metadata project, but basically traffic analysis from computer networks... By these numbers, it is similar in scope to the VERIZON estimate I made:

"A fact sheet leaked to the Guardian explains that almost 3bn pieces of intelligence had been collected from US computer networks in the 30-day period ending in March this year, as well as indexing almost 100bn pieces worldwide. "

So 36 billion US bits of metadata and 1.2 Trillion worldwide metadata entries. Scales pretty much like VERIZON, so add another office, another server (which fits in the same rack as the first one) and another 4-6 people.

c) PRISM

All foreign communication (emails, chat logs, other data from nine internet companies). From http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/7/prism-used-collect-personal-web-data-clapper-says/ we find a mathematician, William Binney who estimates (yeah, guesses) PRISM has 20 trillion emails/phone calls. At 100k/email (http://searchengineland.com/google-web-report-average-page-size-320-kb-46316) and 3 MB/phone call (3 min average per http://adraughtofvintage.com/2012/05/07/average-length-of-local-cell-phone-call-in-2003-was-3-min-in-2010-its-1-min-47-sec/) and estimating about a 10-1 ratio (going by http://www.cisco.com/en/US/solutions/collateral/ns341/ns525/ns537/ns705/ns827/white_paper_c11-481360_ns827_Networking_Solutions_White_Paper.html and comparing to a phone traffic average above) we come up with an estimated size of about 10 exabytes.

Old estimates (2008) indicate that 2 exabytes could be done in 40,000 square feet of server space per http://storagemojo.com/2008/10/12/building-a-18-exabyte-data-center/ and we need five times that, but racks and disk capacity have improved by about the same proportion -- So PRISM sits (at Fort Meade?) in a single storage facility. http://singularityhub.com/2009/11/03/enter-the-yottabyte-one-billion-petabytes/ estimates that Google stores on the order of exabytes in a single data center. So PRISM is a single data center.

SO -- IF IT STOPPED WITH WHAT WE WERE OFFICIALLY TOLD THAT WOULD BE IT IT WOULD FIT IN A SINGLE COMPLEX

1) Why do we need a bunch of new multi-billion buildings in Utah capable of holding AT A MINIMUM 5 zettabytes (10 years of ALL TRAFFIC by a quick pencil and paper calculation) up through "yottabytes" if the program truly is this small?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center

This is an expansion of the capacity at San Antonio, Fort Meade, Fort Gordon in Georgia, NSA Hawaii. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency

2) Why are there stories about the U.S. government being interested in all kinds of commercial databases?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-14/u-s-agencies-said-to-swap-data-with-thousands-of-firms.html

3) Why does a quick perusal of the DARPA website talk about opportunities to do "anomaly detection" in massive databases.

http://www.darpa.mil/Our_Work/I2O/Programs/Anomaly_Detection_at_Multiple_Scales_%28ADAMS%29.aspx

CONCLUSION

Someone, somewhere made the successful sales pitch to these guys that you could build a system like the ones we see on CSI on teevee. When you know the name of the bad guy, just press a button and those massive floor to ceiling monitors on the "command center" wall pops up their picture and every significant bit of data ever collected on that person like you'd had a gumshoe on their tails for a decade. Worse, there are probably promises that you can take all that data, put it in a pot, wave a magic wand and out pops all the bad guys (people who don't fit the mean behaviors of the population). Once again, we are all suspects who will need to prove our innocence rather than them proving our guilt.

At the very least there is far more capacity available than publically disclosed uses.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

What really is the truth now? [View all] YeahSureRight Jun 2013 OP
Of course you can never KNOW who is telling the truth. randome Jun 2013 #1
You think you know the truth when infact the only truth you know is what tey tell you YeahSureRight Jun 2013 #5
I'm less inclined to believe anything Snowden says. randome Jun 2013 #8
I know WovenGems Jun 2013 #11
What I know is that I used to operate a system that could listen, identify, locate YeahSureRight Jun 2013 #15
Thank you WovenGems Jun 2013 #18
When I left that job 20 years ago they were already starting to work YeahSureRight Jun 2013 #23
Well, we can look at the evidence of course... Pholus Jun 2013 #9
The potential for abuse is always present. randome Jun 2013 #10
The potential for abuse is mitigated if there is a forced disposal of information. Pholus Jun 2013 #13
I don't see storing numbers as 'lifelong surveillance' but yeah, I can see the need for disposal. randome Jun 2013 #17
You're damned by your associates in those "numbers" Pholus Jun 2013 #20
Truth-one side does not want the democratic party to keep the senate. Truth-Ed Markey for Senate graham4anything Jun 2013 #2
Fact: Our nation has codified a privacy ethic known as the fourth amendment. geckosfeet Jun 2013 #3
It really is just a piece of parchment with old faded words written on it now nothing more. YeahSureRight Jun 2013 #6
Then the truth is relative. geckosfeet Jun 2013 #7
Of course it is relative YeahSureRight Jun 2013 #21
Correct on al counts. geckosfeet Jun 2013 #27
Events can not be lied about -- for example if gasoline goes up then we all know KurtNYC Jun 2013 #4
I tend to not trust bought and paid for politicians. The Link Jun 2013 #12
Figure out what the worst is and imagine things are 3.4 times worse than that. el_bryanto Jun 2013 #14
2+2=4 Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #16
Truth is like pornography. kentuck Jun 2013 #19
My method for discerning truth - it is the polar opposite of whatever republicans say rurallib Jun 2013 #22
my bet is that the Ron Pauler is lying. n/t Whisp Jun 2013 #24
A sprkly wibbly wobbly thing IN THE MIDDLE of soemthing else. sibelian Jun 2013 #25
You may have hit upon the crux of the matter. Turbineguy Jun 2013 #26
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