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In reply to the discussion: What we have here ... [View all]
 

reusrename

(1,716 posts)
139. I think you are only seeing half the danger.
Wed Jun 19, 2013, 01:26 PM
Jun 2013

Many people are beginning to recognize that there is more to this than traditional eavesdropping. If this is what you think this conversation is about, then yes, it might appear that the hair-on-fire folks have gone hyperbolic.

There are two separate concerns, for sure. One is the privacy issue, along with all the questions of whether or not the laws are constitutional or whether or not they are even being followed. This has always been the case with the 4th Amendment, ever since the country was founded.

The second concern is completely new, and it has to do with the use of metadata. Metadata is used to create the targets for a counterinsurgency operation. Sometimes (or according to research, in most cases) the most influential person in a social network, or insurgency, is not the most high profile, or the most vocal, individual in the group. With very large groups (OWS for example), this new technology identifies those individuals who's participation in the group is the most critical.

That, in a nutshell, is what the metadata is being collected and used for. It should be obvious how this information can be used/misused to affect our first amendment freedoms, specifically our right to peaceably assemble. There are a couple of stories floating around today about how the MIC is targeting opponents of the keystone pipeline. This counterinsurgeny technology and training is being used against law-abiding citizens right here in America.

Because the algorithms being used are easily handled by computers, and because no errors are introduced by trying to decode or translate any communication content, the system can create a very precise mapping of our social networks. Only actual metadata associated with each communication is logged into the software, and from that the algorithms sort out the social connections.

Almost everything about this particular type of surveillance is new. The science behind the algorithms that are used and the computers that store and sift the data are new. The idea behind controlling the pubic is not new, however. It has been done before, and very effectively, even without this new weapon.

This all fits into the bigger picture of the War on Terror. Remember that our country was founded by insurgents. Many, if not all of our heroes, would have been easily thwarted under this type of surveillance regime and folks have written about how Paul Revere could have been stopped.


For some basic info about how the science is implemented, google the keywords: thesis+insurgent+social+network


Basically, we are heading to place where you either support the 1% or else you are a terrorist. This path leads to the restoration of slavery. There is no doubt about it.

What we have here ... [View all] nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 OP
K&R MotherPetrie Jun 2013 #1
One of your best posts Nadin. +1000 dkf Jun 2013 #2
You nailed it. Thank you. Autumn Jun 2013 #3
You are not the only one who feels that way Curmudgeoness Jun 2013 #4
It will bear fruit nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #6
I am sorry to think that I will not be here Curmudgeoness Jun 2013 #13
Yup, I know. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #15
Never say you've hit bottom malthaussen Jun 2013 #136
It's not really constitutionalists vs. authoritarians. It seems more like JaneyVee Jun 2013 #5
See what I mean? nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #7
I'm agreeing with you. JaneyVee Jun 2013 #8
But I am one of the people with the hair on fire nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #12
That's not a bad thing, everyone is different and has different thresholds. JaneyVee Jun 2013 #14
Well, this is to te point many of us will not play nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #17
With this "Court" overseeing it, tblue Jun 2013 #57
Don't exaggerate nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #59
The NSA says they don't need to get warrants every time LondonReign2 Jun 2013 #112
It is an old fashioned Stasi nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #113
not at all. not when you have folks on your side who surely have their hair flaming cali Jun 2013 #11
Flaming hair all around. Then there's those without flaming hair. JaneyVee Jun 2013 #16
My hair used to be calm...because I mistakenly believed we had a government that would dkf Jun 2013 #98
What about those of us without any hair? Okay, I guess that's a discussion for SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #151
And there is a perfect example of why people are giving up on both parties. sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #72
In time of war nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #82
We're talking about metadata collection, no one is giving up freedom. JaneyVee Jun 2013 #135
What is this 'metadata' you are speaking of? I was told by the President that my sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #138
Sabrina, your ability to accurately assess situations Generic Other Jun 2013 #140
That was very nice of you to say Generic Other. sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #211
Thank you for saying what I've been thinking! DearHeart Jun 2013 #209
It seems more like a 'trust' vs. a 'dis-trust' divide to me. There are those who HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #124
I think you are only seeing half the danger. reusrename Jun 2013 #139
Very good post! Caretha Jun 2013 #186
Can you explain to me how we can have a democracy if our security JDPriestly Jun 2013 #162
The lesser of two evils is catching up fast. Cuts to food snaps (Senate Dems voted for it), forestpath Jun 2013 #9
Well, your bias showed up in the 1st paragraph.... Honeycombe8 Jun 2013 #10
Good post... one_voice Jun 2013 #18
^^^^^^^^^ all of this ^^^^^^^^ pkdu Jun 2013 #20
That was what I was thinking that same thing, although in a bit different way davidpdx Jun 2013 #55
Are you sure the FISA court is free from the administration? Coccydynia Jun 2013 #25
The FISA court is appointed by none other Unknown Beatle Jun 2013 #66
So it is free from this administration Coccydynia Jun 2013 #69
Yes, good post! mountain grammy Jun 2013 #45
+1 uponit7771 Jun 2013 #106
You don't get it, Caretha Jun 2013 #187
End the war on terror abelenkpe Jun 2013 #19
the way you've divided folks here (and wherever) bigtree Jun 2013 #21
Not taking the bait nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #22
you're the one who wrote this baiting post bigtree Jun 2013 #24
Nope, not taking the bait nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #26
Feedback isn't bait and a couple of people have Skidmore Jun 2013 #160
I do not compromise with the constitution. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #161
I did not ask you to compromise anything Skidmore Jun 2013 #166
Straw men, labeling, other ad hominem tactics, thats the order of the day if you dont completely buy stevenleser Jun 2013 #176
I will make an exception nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #198
I'm also prior service and also took an oath. Why do you feel the need to keep bringing it up? stevenleser Jun 2013 #204
And from now on, we are done. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #206
How can the discussion NOT BE about you Summer Hathaway Jun 2013 #189
You are correct. Once I researched the facts and put them out there both on my show and via stevenleser Jun 2013 #152
You've attributed Nadin Caretha Jun 2013 #188
...is failure to communicate. bluedigger Jun 2013 #23
So true...so true. FailureToCommunicate Jun 2013 #33
It's like I summoned you... bluedigger Jun 2013 #35
Ol' Blue ALWAYS goes after the scent... FailureToCommunicate Jun 2013 #37
Exactly what popped into my head when I saw the title. Fuddnik Jun 2013 #137
Democracy in the USA is like a zombie. It's dead and it doesn't know it. L0oniX Jun 2013 #27
It helps I cover local news nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #28
Great Post, L0oniX...from one voting zombie to another...nt GReedDiamond Jun 2013 #91
And a Faustian bargain waged for our zombie souls Generic Other Jun 2013 #141
This term "authoritarian" sure has caught on. gulliver Jun 2013 #29
You should invest in a dictionary nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #30
It's Nadine vs the Hax of Sol III Fumesucker Jun 2013 #31
Thanks for kicking this thread, I almost missed it and it is a very excellent OP. sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #79
You knew I'd HAVE to click on this one... FailureToCommunicate Jun 2013 #32
LOL ... perfect! Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2013 #34
LOL! Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #36
Honest to dawg, I thought it was going to end this way. Major Hogwash Jun 2013 #50
Those who disagree with you PREFER to live under an authoritarian state BeyondGeography Jun 2013 #38
So be it...you have a right to your opinion nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #41
You take it to another level BeyondGeography Jun 2013 #43
Nope, I don't nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #46
Why not just call us all fascists? BeyondGeography Jun 2013 #47
If you wish nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #52
I sincerely hope ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #76
I wish some folks read what others who have gone through this nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #78
I am reviewing my past views on these issues per your suggestion Generic Other Jun 2013 #144
Seriously... DevonRex Jun 2013 #145
Hilarious, is it not? DevonRex Jun 2013 #61
And here we are discussing it freely on technology that was handed down by the military BeyondGeography Jun 2013 #63
Yes. I'm proud to have worked on the original. DevonRex Jun 2013 #73
You are completely wrong Caretha Jun 2013 #191
Oh yeah? DevonRex Jun 2013 #207
Well said and K&R zeemike Jun 2013 #39
I can't see a large swath nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #40
I can see it all. zeemike Jun 2013 #42
I bet nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #49
You're not missing anything, same old same old yawn inducting 'rah rah' I'm so funny and it is it sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #81
I suspect also a personal attack nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #83
Weak attempts, yes. Considering the sources though your credibiity is being hugely enhanced sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #87
No it is just between people who understand the law and people who do not treestar Jun 2013 #44
I must admit, a nice variation nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #48
The race card. ReRe Jun 2013 #60
It is not what they believe. Just another distraction technique, best to ignore it. Did you see the sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #84
I got it in my notes nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #85
No, I haven't seen what you mentioned... ReRe Jun 2013 #96
Consider the sources. I never get upset by anything said by these people, although accusing DUers sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #99
I Ignored my first person! ReRe Jun 2013 #101
Lol, I went to political bootcamp when Bush was installed in the WH. I used to go to sites sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #103
And those "liberals" who desperately search for any sign of imperfection in the President? baldguy Jun 2013 #51
Actually in my case it is all but the authoritarians. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #54
Yeah, but they didn't seem to really care until these allegations were leveled against Obama. baldguy Jun 2013 #56
Some of us cared since the USPA was announced nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #58
Stop using the race card right now. ReRe Jun 2013 #67
The allegations, what allegations? Leaks is what the President called them. That means they are sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #89
The allegations that the NSA has been listening to your phone calls. baldguy Jun 2013 #93
That is NOT what people are upset about. They are upset, try to read this carefully, about sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #97
Great post! +++ marions ghost Jun 2013 #172
This wasn't levelled against the President Hydra Jun 2013 #100
We don't have to desperately search for any sign of "imperfection" YoungDemCA Jun 2013 #149
K&R midnight Jun 2013 #53
Excellent Post Nadin Phlem Jun 2013 #62
I can't, many residents are on my ignore list nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #65
their abuse is not entertaining, but it is a testimony to your irrefutability carolinayellowdog Jun 2013 #119
*cigar falls out of mouth in astonished delight* MisterP Jun 2013 #64
Democrats that ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #68
Alas it's not, and has never been, about Snowden nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #70
So you are right and that's the end of it, right? 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #77
When this poster waves goodbye to you you'll know you're on ignore BeyondGeography Jun 2013 #80
Some things are just true. sibelian Jun 2013 #123
Then those things should stand up to an examination of the facts, right? nt stevenleser Jun 2013 #177
Apparently ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #192
That is your opinion ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #190
Since you have Caretha Jun 2013 #194
I, first found and posted on DU ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #196
you are so sure of my race Caretha Jun 2013 #197
Based on this comment ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #199
correct me if I'm wrong Caretha Jun 2013 #200
Yes ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #201
That is very funny Caretha Jun 2013 #202
Do you normally smile ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #203
There is so much weird crap going on this thread Number23 Jun 2013 #182
There's an up side. OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #183
lol Well true, there is that! The OP and another person seem to lovingly stroke their ignore lists Number23 Jun 2013 #185
ODS ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #193
Right on, Nadin! DemoTex Jun 2013 #71
Well you and I have something in common, nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #75
10-4 DemoTex Jun 2013 #88
..... madfloridian Jun 2013 #74
HUGE K & R !!! WillyT Jun 2013 #86
Want to hear something funny? Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2013 #90
I tried to read that. I really did. OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #92
. Rex Jun 2013 #94
K&R LittleBlue Jun 2013 #95
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Jun 2013 #102
Can you please post a link to a DU post that claims Obama is god. tridim Jun 2013 #104
Actually you know what nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #105
So no link to a DU post claiming Obama is God. Check. tridim Jun 2013 #107
Nope, won't take the bait nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #110
Bait? I'm wondering why you posted a myth as fact. tridim Jun 2013 #116
Nope, won't take your bait nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #117
I always wonder what a socicety would look like bigtree Jun 2013 #118
Once again, excellent nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #121
not 'frustration' (I'm certain, to your chagrin) bigtree Jun 2013 #133
you are being silly Caretha Jun 2013 #195
They will post 100 saying Obama is dog...that's good enough for the bashers uponit7771 Jun 2013 #108
Cool story Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #109
Yep, strawman overexaggeration treestar Jun 2013 #111
Not from DU, but RZM Jun 2013 #129
Are any other DUers as confused as I am? OneGrassRoot Jun 2013 #114
I must admit... nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #115
you 'personalized' this thread in the first two paragraphs, Nadin bigtree Jun 2013 #120
more bait nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #122
you've cast those who disagree with you as 'baiters' bigtree Jun 2013 #132
now now, you don't want to end up on the "iggy list"! dionysus Jun 2013 #143
Same exact technique was used by another group nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #146
stick to the issues and avoid characterizing the motives of folks who bother to respond to you bigtree Jun 2013 #147
On this issue, they can't and they seem to know that the facts don't support them. stevenleser Jun 2013 #170
Asking you questions is NOT BAITING YOU. Why start the damn OP if you're just going Number23 Jun 2013 #184
"Americans are cowards, at least a good percentage" OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #125
The attacks started by those who attacked anyone who didnt think the sky was falling from the stevenleser Jun 2013 #155
One show I won't listen to. Good. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #163
Doesnt work Nadin. There are lots of articles like this one in 2006 in USA Today stevenleser Jun 2013 #165
I know, I know it's a fracking piece of paper. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #167
The ACLU? I quote them. I know, you can't handle the facts here. Like all the rest on your side. stevenleser Jun 2013 #168
Facts, you would not know them if they hit you nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #169
I know the history already, it's in the transcript from my show. The facts are against you. stevenleser Jun 2013 #171
Thank you for this rational post. n/t zappaman Jun 2013 #164
A lot of this goes wayyyyyyyy back... OneGrassRoot Jun 2013 #178
Shorter OP: everyone who disagrees with me hates freedom. geek tragedy Jun 2013 #126
You know what DU needs? JoePhilly Jun 2013 #156
Kind of like Facebook friend recommendations in reverse. nt geek tragedy Jun 2013 #157
Yup ... People who hate you also hate ... JoePhilly Jun 2013 #159
K & R AzDar Jun 2013 #127
Too bad we dont have such lovely worded posts on the perils of a GOP takeover of this country. DCBob Jun 2013 #128
An the less evilism post nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #130
If you cant see the obvious differences.. DCBob Jun 2013 #131
On matters of spying on the American people, nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #134
Or rather..... Floyd_Gondolli Jun 2013 #148
+1 Poll_Blind Jun 2013 #142
K&R JDPriestly Jun 2013 #150
Kick and Rec LiberalLovinLug Jun 2013 #153
They are not left, or right, or cons nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #154
Stalinists?? Sure you don't mean Nazis? JoePhilly Jun 2013 #158
What we actually have here Summer Hathaway Jun 2013 #173
+1 DCBob Jun 2013 #180
I don't consider anyone felix_numinous Jun 2013 #174
Well, we are now a corporatist state nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #175
With a lot of help unfortunately felix_numinous Jun 2013 #179
This message was self-deleted by its author mother earth Jun 2013 #181
Nadin, you made a good few points but where are the links akbacchus_BC Jun 2013 #205
Re-read the paragraph nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #210
Bulls eye. nt PufPuf23 Jun 2013 #208
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