General Discussion

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)

173. And you're lying right now.

Wed Jun 19, 2013, 03:44 PM

Jun 2013

The mistake I made was saying I had not made a claim that required burden of proof (post 123). I did.

And I HAVE supplied that data. Do you want data, or a peer reviewed study? I have data. I have no peer reviewed study.

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Former law abiding gun owner shoots wife over dinner [View all] gollygee Jun 2013 OP

Bet if there were no gun in that home she'd still be alive malaise Jun 2013 #1

+++1 million!!! but stop making sense. nt kelliekat44 Jun 2013 #209

Don't be silly BainsBane Jun 2013 #238

No, no, no. If there were a DOZEN guns in the house, she'd still be alive. Gungeoneer logic. nt valerief Jun 2013 #253

But law abiding gun owners don't commit gun violence liberal N proud Jun 2013 #2

Yep. Gun owners are often law abiding up until the moment they shoot their wife. nt onehandle Jun 2013 #3

Yep malaise Jun 2013 #6

It was exactly what happened in my family. CTyankee Jun 2013 #11

Oh man, how horrible. reflection Jun 2013 #15

In a way, it was just as well that my father's recent stroke at the time rendered him unable CTyankee Jun 2013 #93

Good grief malaise Jun 2013 #80

my brother collapsed by the side of her coffin. He was never the same after that. CTyankee Jun 2013 #90

I agree with him malaise Jun 2013 #111

I don't think her stepgrandfather really aimed at her. He was drunk and angry, went for the CTyankee Jun 2013 #119

That's really sad, CTyankee ..... oldhippie Jun 2013 #208

Thank you, oldhippie. CTyankee Jun 2013 #210

And rightfully so. I am so sorry for his lose. You never get over it really. southernyankeebelle Jun 2013 #112

Well, he's gone now. A stroke took him at age 67 back in 2004. CTyankee Jun 2013 #122

It's sad all around. southernyankeebelle Jun 2013 #146

You have left me without words except to say I am so sorry for you and your familly's loss still_one Jun 2013 #155

Thank you. You are a kind person. CTyankee Jun 2013 #157

Just an(other) isolated incident. Nothing to see here. Heidi Jun 2013 #4

Gosh those law abiding gun owners sure are terrifying. I hope I never run into one. nt el_bryanto Jun 2013 #5

Depending on your state... Pelican Jun 2013 #52

Oh no! Well please reassure me that no law-abiding gun owner would post at DU! nt el_bryanto Jun 2013 #60

One of the .001% of gun owners who kill someone annually, huh.. pipoman Jun 2013 #7

There are around 30,000 gun deaths every year. EOTE Jun 2013 #23

Only a third of those gun deaths are crimes hack89 Jun 2013 #26

They are victims who likely wouldn't be dead without guns. EOTE Jun 2013 #32

But are they "law abiding gun owners" who are suddenly not anymore? hack89 Jun 2013 #44

Considering that suicide is illegal, yes. EOTE Jun 2013 #46

Where is suicide illegal? jberryhill Jun 2013 #54

That's a widely accepted meme, isn't it? AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #57

It's the attempt that's illegal. EOTE Jun 2013 #59

There would be less suicides in Fiji if paraquat were illegal metalbot Jun 2013 #218

You can lump suicides with murderers if you want hack89 Jun 2013 #58

I'm not lumping them together at all. EOTE Jun 2013 #61

So distinguish between legal and illegal gun owners hack89 Jun 2013 #64

Again, the great bulk of illegal gun owners were at one point legal gun owners. EOTE Jun 2013 #71

I understand your need to blur the line between felons ... hack89 Jun 2013 #89

I understand your need to obscure the facts surrounding gun nutters and their propensity for murder. EOTE Jun 2013 #92

So what "sensible" laws do we need? nt hack89 Jun 2013 #94

I've already discussed that many times in this thread. EOTE Jun 2013 #95

So we agree on three out of four hack89 Jun 2013 #97

Again, it's a start. EOTE Jun 2013 #104

I don't hold it against you. hack89 Jun 2013 #106

Are you aware that these four items would do nothing for suicides? AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #98

No, that's not true. EOTE Jun 2013 #103

Well AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #107

It's speculating, no, flat out LYING to suggest that closing the gun show loop hole wouldn't reduce EOTE Jun 2013 #108

So you can show AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #110

And do you really think that only the people buying those firearms will be the ones committing EOTE Jun 2013 #109

What is the correlation between safe storage and background checks that should occur at gun shows? AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #113

I can tell you if the gun show loophole were closed, less irresponsible assholes who shouldn't own EOTE Jun 2013 #114

I don't agree, and I think you should be able to demonstrate that claim with state by state AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #116

So brilliant the way that the gun nutter's mind works. EOTE Jun 2013 #117

But there is state by state suicide/firearm data. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #120

YOU made the claim. One which was auxiliary to what was being discussed. EOTE Jun 2013 #121

Stop lying. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #123

Christ, you DO know that your statements are available for all to see, right? EOTE Jun 2013 #125

I can show AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #131

Christ, let's see if you have a functioning brain here. EOTE Jun 2013 #132

I did make that assertion. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #135

So, you can make an assertion with nothing to back it up. EOTE Jun 2013 #136

Except I provided that data when you called me on it. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #138

You provided nothing in terms of data. EOTE Jun 2013 #141

I do. I asked for a correlation only. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #144

You didn't ask for anything, you made a statement. EOTE Jun 2013 #147

That isn't what you said. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #153

So, you don't believe that closing the gun show loophole will prevent those who shouldn't have guns EOTE Jun 2013 #156

No, actually, halfway down this page, I AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #159

You are utterly inconsistent. EOTE Jun 2013 #163

No. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #176

Yes, I'm well aware that you don't believe in objective reality. EOTE Jun 2013 #179

Remember where I objected to comparing states with MASSIVE delta in total gun laws? AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #185

So what part do you disagree with? EOTE Jun 2013 #189

I've said it like ten times now. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #192

Incidentally AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #124

Do I really believe for one second that you could begin to comprehend intricacies of statistics? EOTE Jun 2013 #127

I love how AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #128

Again, are you truly unable to understand that YOU are the one who made the claim? EOTE Jun 2013 #130

I did assert it would do nothing. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #133

So, you're a liar. EOTE Jun 2013 #134

That is the worst backpedal I have ever seen. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #137

YOU were the one to make the claim. EOTE Jun 2013 #139

I supported my claim. You have not. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #140

You have provided nothing in terms of data. EOTE Jun 2013 #142

Your study, not mine. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #145

You made a claim with zero to back it up. EOTE Jun 2013 #152

You keep on using this word 'lie'. I do not think it means what you think it means. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #161

You made a statement and then later on admitted you had no data to back up that assertion. EOTE Jun 2013 #165

And you're lying right now. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #173

You said that the laws I want would do nothing to reduce suicide (which wasn't the topic to begin EOTE Jun 2013 #175

You still have not demonstrated that. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #178

Do you think that access to firearms correlates with the rate of suicide by firearm? EOTE Jun 2013 #181

As I said, it correlates to SUCCESSFUL suicide attempts. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #187

Oh, and just so you know, talking out of your ass knowingly is the same as lying. EOTE Jun 2013 #177

Except the CDC data validates what I said. Thanks for playing. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #180

It does nothing of the sort. Not that I'd expect you to know if they did. EOTE Jun 2013 #182

You and 'correlation' are not friends. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #188

Here you go, champ. EOTE Jun 2013 #190

And here's where you fall on your face. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #193

And I have no reason to back up anything, because I was not the one to make the claim. EOTE Jun 2013 #143

Suicide was clearly discussed up thread. post 71 and up. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #148

Yes, it was to say that a lot of deaths caused by guns are by suicide and therefore don't count. EOTE Jun 2013 #151

So instead of screaming about COMMON SENSE AND LYING, why didn't you just AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #162

Because I never brought up suicide to begin witih. EOTE Jun 2013 #164

You have not correlated shit. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #191

I'm through with you. EOTE Jun 2013 #194

I provided the evidence. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #195

Were you guys talking firearm injury rate or firearm suicide rate? jmg257 Jun 2013 #149

Suicide rate. EOTE Jun 2013 #154

Hard to ignore what you haven't provided. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #198

I never said I provided it, I said you'd ignore it. And ignore it you did. EOTE Jun 2013 #201

I didn't ignore it. I CHALLENGED IT. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #202

A correlation is a relationship in sets of data. EOTE Jun 2013 #203

No, it doesn't. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #205

Listen very closely, this is what I'm saying. EOTE Jun 2013 #206

You don't seem to hear what you yourself are saying. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #212

Both of my claims are accurate, I never claimed they were one and the same. EOTE Jun 2013 #220

No you haven't. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #221

The fact you're unable to follow more than one concept at once is on you. EOTE Jun 2013 #222

Not gonna address your fuckup with the Reason article huh? AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #237

Bullshit, I've provided multiple links backing up the claim. Don't blame me if you don't know what EOTE Jun 2013 #239

No, still no correlation. For all your noise about me not understanding correlation... AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #240

Just where is GSBC or gun show mentioned in the line I repeated over and over again? EOTE Jun 2013 #241

You tried that claim earlier. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #242

Christ, what you don't understand about this could fill volumes. EOTE Jun 2013 #243

No you bloody well haven't. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #244

Apparently you're not capable of looking OR reading. EOTE Jun 2013 #245

FINALLY you post something that MIGHT show what you claimed. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #246

Causation is not the same thing as correlation, I shouldn't need to tell you that again. EOTE Jun 2013 #247

My objection wasn't predicated on causality. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #248

There's no dealing with incredibly irrational people. EOTE Jun 2013 #249

I will dismiss it ONLY if it fails to show what you claim it shows. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #250

Hell, if you won't accept information when it's free and served to you on a platter, I certainly EOTE Jun 2013 #252

You keep personally attacking me with shit that doesn't apply. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #254

I offered quite a bit of evidence. EOTE Jun 2013 #255

I may well retract that initial claim AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #256

I would challenge that specifically on the comment I made upthread AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #166

You wanted a correlation, you've got a correlation. EOTE Jun 2013 #167

No, you don't get to say that. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #183

The correlation is due to gun laws. EOTE Jun 2013 #186

Not universally true, but much much better, and I would accept that statement. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #199

Does this help DreamGypsy Jun 2013 #168

This might be more helpful. rrneck Jun 2013 #197

I totally agree with that statement/chart. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #200

what is an acceptable number of gun murders for gundamentalists? Nanjing to Seoul Jun 2013 #88

None hack89 Jun 2013 #91

You have to register your car and to vote and for the selective service. why not your gun? Nanjing to Seoul Jun 2013 #223

The ACLU opposes registration due to privacy issues hack89 Jun 2013 #224

Where is your privacy for registering the vote? Nanjing to Seoul Jun 2013 #225

No one knows what my ballot says. hack89 Jun 2013 #226

You still have to register. And I know all about the privilege of privacy Nanjing to Seoul Jun 2013 #227

I have an unregistered car sitting in my garage hack89 Jun 2013 #228

Talk to me when your family member dies. I look at Newtown and realize that could have Nanjing to Seoul Jun 2013 #229

Ok. Have a good life. nt hack89 Jun 2013 #230

"sounds more impressive" or "arouses more anguish about the effects of guns in our society"? carolinayellowdog Jun 2013 #126

Or it is an argument for comprehensive mental health care. hack89 Jun 2013 #129

It may seem incredible, but sometimes people commit suicide to JDPriestly Jun 2013 #85

But are they criminals? Or just selfish assholes? nt hack89 Jun 2013 #86

What about wounds, intimidation, bigotry bolstered by ones guns, etc. Hoyt Jun 2013 #207

Not my guns. nt hack89 Jun 2013 #216

you meant to say suicides not homicides snooper2 Jun 2013 #29

No, I meant to say deaths. Which is what I DID say. EOTE Jun 2013 #31

Yes snooper2 Jun 2013 #35

They ARE responsible for 2/3rds of homicides. EOTE Jun 2013 #39

I see, 2/3rds and 2/3rds, depends on what you are looking at snooper2 Jun 2013 #43

Editing. EOTE Jun 2013 #50

Cause? AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #68

Ah, so guns don't kill people, people kill people. EOTE Jun 2013 #72

There are certainly some people in possession of firearms that should not be. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #74

That's a start, but it's only a start. EOTE Jun 2013 #77

As a gun nut in favor of at least the two items you specified... AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #82

Calling the nutters on their bullshit numbers is essential as well. EOTE Jun 2013 #84

Yeah, math is hard. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #63

You certainly seem to have a hard time with it. EOTE Jun 2013 #75

That's not true. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #79

The number has been going down. The percentage has NOT. EOTE Jun 2013 #83

Before I go rifling through the FBI UCR data to falsify that, what would you say AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #96

I'd say maybe +/-4% EOTE Jun 2013 #100

Fair enough. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #102

I think you have your basic facts wrong. EOTE Jun 2013 #45

See post #43, what defines a gun nut? snooper2 Jun 2013 #56

That's a far more productive and less dangerous hobby. EOTE Jun 2013 #66

But those are all "Thugs" and "criminals" see? Scootaloo Jun 2013 #158

That's it precisely. EOTE Jun 2013 #160

Tell that to their kids. tblue Jun 2013 #28

Way too many. EOTE Jun 2013 #41

Precious salt for the wounds of the victims, huh... LanternWaste Jun 2013 #81

Statistical truth is salt in the wounds of victims? pipoman Jun 2013 #233

Awesome way to trivialize 30,000+ senseless deaths every year! kestrel91316 Jun 2013 #118

Awsome way to pretend pipoman Jun 2013 #231

He needed the gun for self defense Progressive dog Jun 2013 #8

To tie up the loose ends here... Jeff In Milwaukee Jun 2013 #9

You're a bum for making me lol. tblue Jun 2013 #30

I bet anything he'd been drinking. Boys and girls, alcohol and guns don't mix. raccoon Jun 2013 #10

People and guns don't mix. tblue Jun 2013 #33

that's what his father said on the 911 call TorchTheWitch Jun 2013 #251

if only there had been some other gun-toters at dinner rurallib Jun 2013 #12

most gun owners are law abiding until they're not..... bowens43 Jun 2013 #13

And every beer drinker is a potential drunken driver. hack89 Jun 2013 #27

... rrneck Jun 2013 #36

Hmm.... Pelican Jun 2013 #73

Most folks who keep guns in their homes have not a drop of violence toby jo Jun 2013 #14

What I want to know is what goes on in a man's head that makes him decide malaise Jun 2013 #16

Few other skills of negotiation and if alcohol was involved, those few skills were halved siligut Jun 2013 #20

A Nutcase who should not own a gun in the first place. cynzke Jun 2013 #21

Obviously he had other problems. tblue Jun 2013 #38

Not according to his friends and neighbors malaise Jun 2013 #49

How about women with knives? Marengo Jun 2013 #115

This thread is about a husband shooting his wife dead malaise Jun 2013 #169

Uh Huh. A man, MAN ...in the singular Marengo Jun 2013 #171

The article is mercuryblues Jun 2013 #17

I noticed that too gollygee Jun 2013 #18

Yeah, that's pretty weak assed reporting. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #19

It's saying, "Anyone could do it. tblue Jun 2013 #40

I tend to doubt such claims. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #53

Isn't That What You Read cynzke Jun 2013 #22

. Lurker Deluxe Jun 2013 #24

Felony use of firearm. He shot someone. Robb Jun 2013 #25

uhh Lurker Deluxe Jun 2013 #34

Carrying or possessing when committing or attempting to commit crime. Robb Jun 2013 #42

"felony firearm" are does not necessarily mean the gun was illegal... DreamGypsy Jun 2013 #170

In Hawaii, being convicted billh58 Jun 2013 #213

More like "Alcohol" was the cause - but we don't like to talk about that The Straight Story Jun 2013 #37

I'm all for stricter regulation on booze too. Deep13 Jun 2013 #48

What would you propose? The Straight Story Jun 2013 #51

I'll let the experts do the proposing... Deep13 Jun 2013 #55

Well then who the fuck would sit on the side of the boat ramps snooper2 Jun 2013 #65

Holy shit, this is my new sport. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #99

That was funny -- Thanks!! nt CokeMachine Jun 2013 #172

Alcoholic Law Abiding Gun Onwers??? otohara Jun 2013 #67

Don't forget cars - 700k injured by drunk drivers...common theme in violence/etc - alcohol The Straight Story Jun 2013 #69

Cars vs Guns otohara Jun 2013 #215

No one is safe in America from alcohol hack89 Jun 2013 #70

Every criminal is a former law-abiding person. nt Deep13 Jun 2013 #47

During a dinner or because of a dinner? leeroysphitz Jun 2013 #62

It's a good thing he had a gun! Turbineguy Jun 2013 #76

The most dangerous place for a woman in the US leftyladyfrommo Jun 2013 #78

she should have been armed with an assault rifle while serving dinner samsingh Jun 2013 #87

Now see what you billh58 Jun 2013 #101

You guys are wasting your time with this anti-gun thing LittleBlue Jun 2013 #105

Retrieve the NRA's 2012 Enemies List. Paladin Jun 2013 #150

OP FAIL ceonupe Jun 2013 #174

Wasn't it grand of the NRA to fight so relentlessly BainsBane Jun 2013 #184

who advocates for felons with guns beside chitown based on rearrest rates ceonupe Jun 2013 #196

The NRA does much more billh58 Jun 2013 #219

Obviously they are protecting felons access to guns BainsBane Jun 2013 #236

The NRA apologists billh58 Jun 2013 #211

And they claim we aren't rational BainsBane Jun 2013 #235

Where did you read that? gollygee Jun 2013 #217

But everyone who met him just knew he was responsible! RedCappedBandit Jun 2013 #204

And what's your point? rl6214 Jun 2013 #214

Their point is to stigmatize. And it isn't working. Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #232

One more reason why I say guns are evil and gopiscrap Jun 2013 #234