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Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
Wed Jun 19, 2013, 05:37 PM Jun 2013

If it's not racism, then what is it? [View all]

I've been gone from DU for a few months now and thought I would stop in to see if things had cooled off a bit. To my dismay, they've only erupted even more and the entire site has dissolved into a hate-fest toward our President and other members. We've seen accusations of racism, homophobia and other venom spewed from all sides of the debate. It's enough for me to click 'log out' and never return again. I said in my post about taking a break that I would reevaluate where things stood in a few months and that's exactly what I'm doing.

The decision is irrelevant, though, to this post. So, I won't bore you with some LeBron James-like mega-decision. I'll either keep posting or I won't. No matter.

Anyway, when I did come online today, I noticed posts about racism from the left and how it's being used against Obama critics unfairly and unjustly - with many members pouncing on the narrative that this is basically all Obama supporters have left in their bag of tricks. I understand the push back. No one likes to be called a racist. Even racists don't like being called racist.

I don't know who is and isn't truly a racist on DU. Hell, for all you know, I'm really a 40 year old woman with Italian heritage instead of a 20-something man whose family came over from Ireland. This is the internet and most of you are just as much a stranger to everyone else as the random person in the coffee shop. What you are on DU isn't necessarily what you are in real life and that means we're all operating under our own illusions of what we think you are because our perception is entirely molded around your online persona. I think we've all, over the years, judged others here on how they represent themselves - good or bad - without ever knowing if that's how they are in real life. I'd also think that we are much more different online than in real life because it's easier with supposed anonymity to express ourselves ... especially to a group of people we most likely will never meet.

That doesn't change the fact that, at the end of the day, we still know little about each other except from what we can glean from each others' posts.

So, I don't want to suggest some people are racists and some aren't. I don't know. I don't know because I don't know you. But conversely, for some people, it's hard to put into context the constant hatred Obama has seen from some here - a consistent attack that has not let up at all over the four and a half years of his presidency. This goes beyond just disagreeing with some of his policies and a portion of his leadership and instead, compulsively at times, attacking everything he does - or only posting negative things about him. There are members, and I don't want to name 'em for fear of calling people out, who have, to this day, said hardly anything positive about Obama. I mean, from the day he won the nomination in 2008 to right now, they have maybe posted a handful of positive threads - if that. And there are others who have said only negative things about the President.

Is it racism? Maybe not. But if it isn't racism, then what is it? What is the driving force behind the constant criticism of Obama that has dominated much DU since his election?

I get that some are disappointed with his leadership and I understand many of you had high hopes for a Democratic president after eight years of Bush. But it seems much of the attacks we're seeing toward Obama are completely irrational. So irrational, that it leaves a great deal of Obama supporters questioning the motivation behind it - especially when it comes from the same collection of posters who have slammed Obama at every turn without ever offering even a token praise when warranted.

This is something that I've experienced since 2009 and I've had difficulty expressing it without sounding like I'm attacking. But while some of you believe Obama can do no wrong in the eyes of his hardcore supporters, from my view, there are a collection of you who believe he can do no right.

It's been a constant theme since his inauguration.

I look at Don't Ask, Don't Tell. For two years, between 2009 and 2010, the left howled and railed and some even questioned whether Obama was a homophobe. They attacked, they said he was dragging his feet, not doing enough and could easily overturn DADT with an executive order. But eventually, Obama got it overturned the way he wanted - the way that would have made it permanent and not risked the potential of the next president coming into office and signing an executive order overturning Obama's executive order - which would have certainly happened, I believe, had Romney won in 2012 - though, maybe not. But was that the risk any of you were willing to take? I guess so, because, at the time, it was much the ideal decision of DU. What path was ultimately better for the country and for gay rights - the one the President was derided for taking or the path advocated here on DU? I think we have that answer. Yet the hardcore criticizers couldn't even be bothered to thank Obama for staying with it, working with Democratic lawmakers and finally overturning a law that was bigoted and hateful. That's not to say some Obama critics didn't speak up and say, "you know, good deal all around...", but you know if you made those comments or not, so, if you did, obviously this isn't directed at you.

I look at healthcare reform. Obama was seriously in a no-win situation with this bill. It was a no-win situation because it's proven a no-win situation since Teddy Roosevelt tried to reform our healthcare system. Every president that fought to do it failed and some failed monumentally where it put their presidencies in jeopardy. Jimmy Carter famously lost support of Ted Kennedy in the U.S. Senate over healthcare reform and, among other reasons, it led to Kennedy mounting a primary challenge in 1980 that eventually played a role in Carter's demise. A little over a decade later, Bill Clinton nearly saw his presidency undone by failing to reform healthcare. He was able to pull back from the brink - but it wasn't without taking a huge hit and radically adjusting his administration's goals. Obama started this whole ordeal already the underdog because history had proven it could not be done. Worse, we were still mired in one of the worst recessions in American history.

The left fragmented. The right unified. There was a lot of heated language on both sides and eventually, when it looked doomed after Scott Brown's election (another thing blamed on Obama), healthcare reform passed - barely. That barely is important because much of the left advocated for a far more liberal healthcare reform bill. They wanted a public option (hell, so did I) at the least, and, if at all possible, total universal healthcare. They got neither. They felt jobbed. I can understand the sentiments. But I also couldn't understand why the blame went to Obama, as if he was the one solely responsible for a reform package that didn't placate the base. Let's get real - the public option had limited support among lawmakers and universal healthcare had no support. Sure, Democrats held huge majorities in both the House and Senate, but it took compromise to get every Democrat on board. There was essentially three options - go with what we got, go for smaller reforms (advocated by Rahm Emanuel, opposed by Nancy Pelosi and Obama) or go for broke on something that was essentially dead on arrival. The left wanted Obama to do the latter. In theory, it sounds good because it's standing up for true liberalism as I've been told over and over by those on the left, they just want a president who advocates and advances their causes - even if they ultimately fail. So, I think we can all agree (though, for some odd reason, this is still debated) that had Obama done the last option, had he pushed for universal healthcare, there would've been no healthcare reform. Maybe in the end, it would've proven successful for his presidency (certainly the returns we're seeing right now means it wouldn't have proven successful for the American people), but it would have also meant we got no foot into the door toward a truly universal healthcare plan. Right now, at least it's a start and, prior to 2010, that starting line looked too distant for anyone to ever realistically believe we would be able to cross it.

But even today, Obama is often hit harder by the left than the right on healthcare reform. I'm sure there are many who are still upset that it didn't include the public option or wasn't a true universal package. Still, that doesn't change the fact that it put the country on the right course and has helped benefit millions of Americans and will only continue to benefit millions more when it's fully rolled out in 2014. Moreover, I think we all agree it's immensely better than the status quo.

Then there is Iraq. For a good portion of Obama's first term, the narrative here was that he lied on Iraq. He was keeping us there, he went back on his promise to bring the troops home. He was just like Bush in this regard. Over time, the pullout began and even then, many hit back saying it wasn't enough ... it wasn't good enough. And then the war officially came to an end. Not much talk about Iraq these days - how the President stepped in and finished the war like he said he would. Sure, there are the stories slamming the actual war itself, but we've moved on to Afghanistan - a situation that is playing out almost eerily similar to what happened with Obama & Iraq.

I'm sure when Obama officially ends the Afghanistan War, there will be a few here who will find another reason to criticize his foreign policy.

Oh wait...

There was Egypt. We all remember Egypt. Obama wasn't doing enough. He was too passive. I remember those threads. We all agreed Hosni Mubarak had to go - but Obama wasn't doing enough to get him to go. I don't think anyone really knew what we wanted him to do, except to put more pressure on him, but certainly we wouldn't want to intervene militarily? But there was only one option from the left - Mubarak Out and Obama wasn't moving fast enough.

Hosni Mubarak is out. Even though, in early 2011, Obama was mocked constantly from the left AND the right for his tepid response.

Then Libya happened and everyone's views kinda changed. Gaddafi wasn't a good guy, I think we could all agree with that, but there wasn't near the outcry, even though a revolution was taking place - as was the slaughtering of actual people. The left, who spent much of early 2011 demanding Obama do something with Egypt, then turned around and gasped when Obama did something foreceful with Libya. What business is it of ours to meddle in another country's affairs?

It was a legitimate question - just not a consistent question. Some even floated the idea of impeachment.

Now we're seeing it with Syria. A situation that is dire. It's not just a civil war now. It's something much worse and while all options on the table suck, I promise you Assad is no better than Mubarak - the same guy so many here advocated for his ouster back in 2011.

But Syria is just another extension of Obama's warmongering. He's a warmonger. I hear it all the time from guys like Noam Chomsky! So, you know, it must be true.

This leads into the next constant, and often overblown, attack I see - Obama is just like Bush. Yup. He's Bush's third and fourth terms. With the NSA revelations, something we probably all knew was happening anyway but didn't care to make hay of it all these years, the drumbeats of this attack have only grown louder. It's ridiculous. It's only used by ideologues who look at things in black and white. But as we all know, government isn't black and white. There is rarely any absolutes. Everything is muddled and that makes it harder for us to accept certain positions. Take Guantanamo, Obama is constantly attacked for not closing it down and yet, the blame mostly lies in Congress. Bernie Sanders wants it gone? Then he better round up the votes - put his money where is mouth is. Go build enough support in the senate to show Obama it can be done. But this continues the trend of blaming Obama without blaming those who truly are responsible. Even today, even right now, there are posters ridiculing Obama for saying we need to close Guantanamo because, gosh, if he really believed it, he'd do it! I actually saw someone say that if there is a will, there is a way and that is absolutely not how this situation works.

So, instead of putting pressure on Democrats and Republicans in the House and Senate, where the pressure belongs, we'll continue to make snarky and snide comments to the one guy who is actually trying to do something we all want done. But that's how it's often been the last few years. It was the same with healthcare reform, DADT, DOMA and Mubarak - Obama is all talk but where is the action?

The action comes ... but as we've seen, he can't do it on his own. We want him to, we believe he can, but our government isn't set up for that. Yet that doesn't change the fact we will constantly blame Obama for congresses foibles. But he's just like Bush.

Because Bush ended the Iraq War. Bush got bin Laden. Bush appointed two pro-choice judges to the Supreme Court. Bush reformed our healthcare system. Bush opposed DOMA. Bush came out in support of gay marriage during an election year. Bush signed the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act. Bush repealed DADT. Bush actually raised taxes on the rich. Bush actually tried to reform Wall Street. Bush expanded pell grant funding. Bush was a constant supporter of women's rights, gay rights, voting rights and other civil rights. Bush was beloved around the world. Bush added gender, sexual orientation and disability to hate crimes legislation. Bush extended benefits to same-sex federal employees. Bush supported affirmative action. Bush actually said global warming was a real thing. Bush truly invested in the U.S. economy.

I could go on ... but you get the point. Bush never did any of those things. We could line up the comparisons and the differences and it wouldn't even be close. Of course, those same comparisons would probably work for every single president in modern American history because most every president operates under the same template when it comes to national and international politics - from Woodrow Wilson to FDR all the way through to Barack Obama. There will always be similarities between Obama and Bush because they were presidents. But the differences are far starker and instead of focusing on those differences, the fact society is better today than it was during the Bush administration, we focus on the similar aspects of their presidency. Those who attack Obama constantly, constantly use this line of attack and never concede, or admit, the good he's done.

You know, it's interesting - Obama is in Berlin, or was, I don't know if he's still there, and the reception he received, along with the reception he received in Northern Ireland, truly shows the disconnect between the American left (and right) and most the rest of the world. Our president still remains a very popular figure in most parts (though, I suspect he isn't in the Middle East - which isn't a surprise) and why? I'm just told over and over here by American intellectuals and liberals that he's just Bush with a tan (google that one) ... but they hated Bush. I don't remember thousands of people lining the streets in Ireland (or Northern Ireland) wanting to see Bush. Hell, I remember this from Dublin:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6695-2004Jun25.html

And then there was this when Obama visited:



Are they delusional? Are they woodchucks?

But he's such a disappointment! They just don't understand!

Obama is probably more popular in England and Germany and Ireland and Australia than their leaders are and that says a lot about him, our country and our position in the world.

But he's just Bush.

For me, it's hard to reconcile much of this hatred. I can understand disappointment and displeasure with his policy - but there is voicing concern and outright attack that leaves many questioning the motives behind those attacks. Is it racism? Maybe not - but if not racism, then what is it? That is a legitimate question because it seems some here are only content on judging Obama by his faults instead of his whole body of work - you know, saving the U.S. auto industry, the economy, reforming healthcare, embracing equality, ending DADT, pushing for the end of DOMA, ending the Iraq War, putting us on the path to ending the Afghanistan War, trying to close Guantanamo even with a hostile congress, appointing two wonderful, qualified women to the Supreme Court, supporting a woman's right to choose more so than any president in American history, pushing for immigration reform even though he's doing it with a Republican House and a combative Senate, trying to advance sensible gun control and building a better, stronger relationship with our allies so that we're not the isolated country Bush turned us into during his presidency.

And that's just half of the good Obama has done for this country. But none of it matters. It wasn't good enough. Healthcare reform wasn't good enough. He didn't end the Iraq War fast enough. He took too long to overturn DADT. He isn't doing enough when it comes to DOMA. He really doesn't mean it when he says he wants to close Guantanamo because if he did, it would be closed. He only came out in support of gay marriage because of political opportunism. He's a neo-con. He's a hawk. He's indecisive. He's a corporatist. His stimulus wasn't big enough (even though it was the biggest in U.S. history). He's in the back pockets of all the banks. He's a DLCer. He's a third-wayer. He's ruining the Democratic Party. He's driving the youth to vote Republican. He's a DINO. He's a Republican. He's to the right of Ronald Reagan. He wants to gut Social Security. He wants to gut medicare. He is ruining the middle class. He's an elitist. He's too powerful. He's not powerful enough. He's going to get us into a war with Egypt/Libya/Syria. He can't be trusted. He's a coward. He has no backbone.

These are the attacks I've seen here on DU over the last four and a half years. Many of these attacks are also from the racist right-wing media. When attacks are irrational, you have to question why they're irrational in the first place. We do it all the time with the right-wing and we concede their irrationality toward Obama, you know, when they call him fascist or socialist or Marxist or communist, is because they can't handle there is a black man in the White House.

That doesn't mean the left is racist for making very similar irrational arguments (Obama has been called fascist by both the left and the right) - but there has to be an explanation for that irrationality. What is it? To wonder if it is racism, when the attacks are so eerily similar to the racist attacks from the right, is not entirely unreasonable. I don't think it's true for a vast majority of DUers or liberals ... but there does appear to be a collection of people who, from day one decided they didn't like Obama and were going to express that dislike at every chance they got - without ever admitting when he did something right.

To those members, to those attackers, their reasoning is always suspect. It's always suspect when someone spews nothing but hate. It's suspect when the right does it and it's suspect when the left does it as well.

So, if it's not racism, then what is the reasoning behind the often irrational attacks toward our President?

304 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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If it's not racism, then what is it? [View all] Drunken Irishman Jun 2013 OP
Well, that's certainly a lot of things people seem to disagree with Obama about. sibelian Jun 2013 #1
I have criticized 840high Jun 2013 #164
It takes a thicker skin than ever to be on the DU. But it's still my favorite site. NYC_SKP Jun 2013 #2
+1 JustAnotherGen Jun 2013 #80
legitimate criticism of obama and his policies is neither "hater" nor "racist". Oddly enough msongs Jun 2013 #3
Some posters ONLY post criticism. Ever. KittyWampus Jun 2013 #27
Some defend everything he does. No different. n-t Logical Jun 2013 #43
Then if one side can do it why can't the other? treestar Jun 2013 #176
The difference is that the DU people complaining vote for and... Logical Jun 2013 #192
Some posters only post love Coccydynia Jun 2013 #75
Some posters still like their spoon. Katashi_itto Jun 2013 #181
The threads get bolloxed by the same old assclowns piling on Kolesar Jun 2013 #168
Spoons. Katashi_itto Jun 2013 #183
So what? Shouldn't we focus on the problems? morningfog Jun 2013 #193
And some only post positives Ter Jun 2013 #300
The complaints go well beyond legitimate criticism jeff47 Jun 2013 #55
I've never seen anyone say those "not legitimate" things. vi5 Jun 2013 #64
Then you aren't looking at many threads jeff47 Jun 2013 #67
I've seen those. Still doesn't address the rest. vi5 Jun 2013 #74
I don't recall seeing that level of animosity, either. enlightenment Jun 2013 #232
I agree Progressive dog Jun 2013 #288
Yep. nt Mojorabbit Jun 2013 #138
Thank you for your thoughtful OP ismnotwasm Jun 2013 #4
Thank you. GeorgeGist Jun 2013 #5
Legitimate criticisms. That's what. Quantess Jun 2013 #6
It's the old "Gotta work twice as hard to get half the credit" thing going on. MADem Jun 2013 #7
Ding ding fucking ding. redqueen Jun 2013 #15
lol MADem, sometimes I SWEAR you must be black. At least a little bit on the inside Number23 Jun 2013 #25
Yeah! JustAnotherGen Jun 2013 #83
I am a little bit of everything--a "Heinz 57" as my Granny would say. MADem Jun 2013 #140
This "almost 50" white guy agrees. JoePhilly Jun 2013 #108
+1 MADem Jun 2013 #130
I wish I could upvote your comment 1000 times. Liberal Veteran Jun 2013 #157
Thanks. At times I wish more of us would call Bullshit on this stuff. JoePhilly Jun 2013 #163
I'm not real happy with the President pscot Jun 2013 #186
It might have something to do with the tone and frequency of the attacks. Liberal Veteran Jun 2013 #201
I don't disagree pscot Jun 2013 #277
This. Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #148
Exactly. You said what I was trying to think of. nomorenomore08 Jun 2013 #149
Yes indeed. eom treestar Jun 2013 #177
+∞² Scootaloo Jun 2013 #236
No doubt it is a different standard. reusrename Jun 2013 #268
There were/are a couple of rapists here on DU, so why would we be surprised if there are racists? n/ Whisp Jun 2013 #8
Could it be about the NSA? And spying of Americans? nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #9
a single explanation won't suffice for two very different phenomena carolinayellowdog Jun 2013 #10
so, after an absence you just couldn't resist when you saw the "they must be racists!" OP quinnox Jun 2013 #11
Exactly, totally spur of the moment Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #18
I think there are a couple of problems re. Obama and his opponents here BeyondGeography Jun 2013 #12
I think we are often on opposite "sides" Vanje Jun 2013 #205
Me too BeyondGeography Jun 2013 #212
Ask Cornel West, Harry Belafonte, Tavis Smiley, etc. progressoid Jun 2013 #13
I can't speak for Belafonte PragmaticLiberal Jun 2013 #72
This message was self-deleted by its author HangOnKids Jun 2013 #114
You Can't Speak For West Or Smiley Either HangOnKids Jun 2013 #118
So NOT racism then. progressoid Jun 2013 #187
I don't believe all of the criticism is justified. PragmaticLiberal Jun 2013 #273
Etc? Etc. like Skip Gates, Oprah Winfrey, Michael Eric Dyson, Al Sharpton, Tom Joyner MADem Jun 2013 #167
Right. And Melissa Harris Perry has also criticized the President... progressoid Jun 2013 #175
Criticism is one thing; constant, nitpicking beatdowns are another. MADem Jun 2013 #203
there's no such big mystery as you pretend. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #14
If Hillary was president, it would presumably be sexism (nt) Nye Bevan Jun 2013 #16
That and maybe ageism Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #19
I was saving ageism in case Biden is our next president (nt) Nye Bevan Jun 2013 #20
I think it could well be worse in that case. treestar Jun 2013 #178
Welcome back Drunken Irishman Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 #17
just look at the Trayvon Martin Case, how can anyone who is truly liberal JI7 Jun 2013 #21
Comparing Travon Martin to President Obama? zeemike Jun 2013 #37
look at the outrage when Obama said if he had a son he would look like Trayvon JI7 Jun 2013 #38
outrage on DU? where? cali Jun 2013 #40
one i remember is some shit from emilyg JI7 Jun 2013 #44
Oh .Correct me if I'm wrong Vanje Jun 2013 #209
I saw no outrage here....and I was here then. zeemike Jun 2013 #59
since your op is, at least to some degree, a response to mine, I'd like to respond cali Jun 2013 #22
A brave, intelligent and excellent post. Thanks for posting it Number23 Jun 2013 #23
The OP asks "What is the driving force behind the constant criticism of Obama" Maedhros Jun 2013 #24
+1 OrwellwasRight Jun 2013 #229
And this is why we need you here, DI. babylonsister Jun 2013 #26
The constant critics who never give Obama credit are ratfuckers, Greens, Cynics or ideologues. KittyWampus Jun 2013 #28
I think the word you're looking for is... sibelian Jun 2013 #31
Give him credit for what? leftstreet Jun 2013 #78
Not being Bush, I think. sibelian Jun 2013 #82
I agree. I'm familiar with right wing hatred of Obama treestar Jun 2013 #188
Yes everyone knows disagreement with policy = Racism ileus Jun 2013 #29
''Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.'' DeSwiss Jun 2013 #30
The Constitution was written by racists, you know! MNBrewer Jun 2013 #34
I suppose the fact that my 3/5 of a person great-grandfather and great grandmother were slaves..... DeSwiss Jun 2013 #35
Being counted as 3/5s wasn't even the worst thing the Constitution inflicted on your ancestors MNBrewer Jun 2013 #42
First, I forgave myself. Then I forgave everyone else, long ago. DeSwiss Jun 2013 #52
Actually, it was treestar Jun 2013 #182
We're a better country than we were back then! Vanje Jun 2013 #214
Yes, don't you know if you complain about any of these things you are a racist? OrwellwasRight Jun 2013 #233
''Argumentum magnifica....'' DeSwiss Jun 2013 #243
I didn't read your whole post, but your characterization of criticism as MNBrewer Jun 2013 #32
Gee, if it's irrational to attack chained cpi, potential approval of the keystone pipeline, etc, etc stupidicus Jun 2013 #33
It's ProSense Jun 2013 #36
so Pro, are you saying that a lot of the cali Jun 2013 #39
Wait, ProSense Jun 2013 #48
absolution? huh? from the likes of YOU? cali Jun 2013 #84
You should be so lucky. nt ucrdem Jun 2013 #109
Well, Prosense, I guess I think whatever you say I think. sibelian Jun 2013 #47
Consider being courteous and not hijacking this thread with your nonsense. n/t ProSense Jun 2013 #49
lol. cali Jun 2013 #85
. ProSense Jun 2013 #102
Sweet Baby Jesus. Number23 Jun 2013 #145
ouch Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #156
cali would you please log off for an hour? ucrdem Jun 2013 #106
no cali Jun 2013 #153
Do you know what? sibelian Jun 2013 #95
Do you know what else? ucrdem Jun 2013 #101
Nah, she's an issue bunny. sibelian Jun 2013 #117
I can't believe what I'm reading. ucrdem Jun 2013 #126
this is how bad it is, it's not enough to criticize Obama , they go after anyone who likes him JI7 Jun 2013 #135
Prosense could enter a thread and say "I agree." That's it. And have 12 Number23 Jun 2013 #144
Prosense is the same poster that links JW2020 Jun 2013 #271
She links to her own threads because they often have links to things like, you know ARTICLES Number23 Jun 2013 #291
you'd actually need to have been around a little longer cali Jun 2013 #155
sputter G_j Jun 2013 #53
Nicely articulated. nt ucrdem Jun 2013 #99
Your problem is that you do not think someone can be extremely disappointed in Obama.... Logical Jun 2013 #57
Is it because I'm black? ProSense Jun 2013 #62
I swear you have an issue where you are so attached or fascinated with Obama that any complaint... Logical Jun 2013 #68
Well, ProSense Jun 2013 #70
Well Miss paranoid....... Logical Jun 2013 #93
Just stop. This is bad form and beneath DU. ucrdem Jun 2013 #98
What are you talking about? I defended her BS. If you want to defend her then do it. Otherwise.... Logical Jun 2013 #103
What's beneath DU is letting OPs like this one -- OrwellwasRight Jun 2013 #240
"Here are the contents of the only four PMs I have ever sent you." ProSense Jun 2013 #100
Yes, Yikes when I have to tell you 10 times to quit stalking me. n-t Logical Jun 2013 #105
LOL! ProSense Jun 2013 #111
Way weird Kolesar Jun 2013 #150
those pms make you look bad JI7 Jun 2013 #154
Prosense has never attacked people for the criticism treestar Jun 2013 #195
You have got to be kidding me! Fearless Jun 2013 #91
"You have nothing to do with it AT ALL." ProSense Jun 2013 #94
I'll rephrase... Fearless Jun 2013 #104
Oh please, ProSense Jun 2013 #115
I responded to your statement that this is racism Fearless Jun 2013 #139
Will you just stop. ucrdem Jun 2013 #97
I haven't said anything insensitive. Fearless Jun 2013 #107
If that's what you think then this thread is for you ucrdem Jun 2013 #113
Saying something that isn't racism isn't racism Fearless Jun 2013 #134
And I would say it is. ucrdem Jun 2013 #142
To be sure Fearless Jun 2013 #146
No. It's not because you're black. sibelian Jun 2013 #110
Will you please just stop. nt ucrdem Jun 2013 #112
Thanks ProSense, once again you've hit the nail on the head ucrdem Jun 2013 #92
Wow, I get it now. n-t Logical Jun 2013 #120
Good. Then you know it's time to leave this thread. nt ucrdem Jun 2013 #124
Funny you never told Prosense to "quit". n-t Logical Jun 2013 #127
ProSense never lost her marbles. nt ucrdem Jun 2013 #129
LOL.....you are just looking silly now..... Logical Jun 2013 #137
Fine you made your point, now just skedaddle will ya? nt ucrdem Jun 2013 #143
To be honest, I didn't know Prosense was black until that post. SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #160
No one on the DU, I hope, cares what color any of us are. Maybe I am naive. But I have never... Logical Jun 2013 #166
Racist Democrats...really? That's it? No snips? Safetykitten Jun 2013 #242
it's called principle and it's called being consistent.. frylock Jun 2013 #41
That does not cover the wide ranging attacks on the President by your party* Kolesar Jun 2013 #158
+1 A cogent and succinct argument. Kudos. SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #161
+1000 OrwellwasRight Jun 2013 #246
Outstanding post, DI Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #45
Thank you very much, Drunken Irishman MrScorpio Jun 2013 #46
Did it not occur to you many DUers object to being spied upon? HooptieWagon Jun 2013 #50
CONGRESS needs to change the law or the courts need to rule that Skidmore Jun 2013 #269
To be sure Congress needs to step up and be responsible for oversight. HooptieWagon Jun 2013 #280
A consistent moral compass. nt Bonobo Jun 2013 #51
Well said DI warrior1 Jun 2013 #54
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #56
It's called Skidmore Jun 2013 #63
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #202
Well this "racist voted for Obama twice and in the primary zeemike Jun 2013 #58
If you're only in your 20's then you don't remember Starry Messenger Jun 2013 #60
Calling criticism of government policy "racism" is simpleminded LittleBlue Jun 2013 #61
It was inferred that I was a racist for making a similar comment during the 2012 election Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #257
What a load of BS vi5 Jun 2013 #65
Fuckin do it! Iggo Jun 2013 #66
If you want to know why moderates and uninformed don't take JoeyT Jun 2013 #69
Having read through the Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #71
Wow, that is outstanding. Major Hogwash Jun 2013 #73
Ah my dear DI annabanana Jun 2013 #76
+1 JustAnotherGen Jun 2013 #133
A lot of people here didn't start paying attention to politics until Bush... Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2013 #77
There was no DU before Bush. Vanje Jun 2013 #194
Some of us were actually into politics before this place existed. Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2013 #200
YAwn L0oniX Jun 2013 #79
DADT was not his success Fearless Jun 2013 #81
OP is only defending O'Bama because he's Irish. HooptieWagon Jun 2013 #86
Its racism pure and simple madokie Jun 2013 #87
How did Obama get elected? leftstreet Jun 2013 #89
Not all people are racist madokie Jun 2013 #119
Yeah, yeah, just the ones who criticize his policies n/t leftstreet Jun 2013 #125
So you think the DUers who complain about Obama are racists? n-t Logical Jun 2013 #122
Two days ago I would have disagreed. nt ucrdem Jun 2013 #128
That's some sick shit shanti Jun 2013 #131
The dorks of DU were attacking Pelosi in the same manner before President Obama took office. Kolesar Jun 2013 #165
"Free enterprise"? OrwellwasRight Jun 2013 #251
Favorite group: Creative Speculation, Kolesar Jun 2013 #267
WTF is that supposed to mean? OrwellwasRight Jun 2013 #270
Is that so? DeSwiss Jun 2013 #250
Very dashing portrait, DeSwiss! Starry Messenger Jun 2013 #263
I disagree Marrah_G Jun 2013 #88
With one sentence, you nailed the snake's skin to a wall bluestate10 Jun 2013 #90
This post is a work of art JustAnotherGen Jun 2013 #96
It is all the apologists have left, and it's popping up regularly now. Skip Intro Jun 2013 #116
An extraordinarily well thought-out post BumRushDaShow Jun 2013 #121
It's a natural reaction against gov lying and spying usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #123
Welp, I think that cleared up any doubts. ucrdem Jun 2013 #132
In a democracy it is the reponsiibility of the people to hold its public servants accountable. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #136
Passionate disagreement and/or disillusionment with policy. LanternWaste Jun 2013 #141
The last thing to bring up is Obama on gay civil rights. The Link Jun 2013 #147
I'm going to have to take issue with your comment. Liberal Veteran Jun 2013 #170
He went where the money and the votes were. He didn't lead. The Link Jun 2013 #173
Say what? He campaigned on homophobia? Liberal Veteran Jun 2013 #180
He used well known, distinguished homophobes to campaign for him. The Link Jun 2013 #185
And the other candidate I mentioned? Liberal Veteran Jun 2013 #196
But he was a homophobe...until last year. The Link Jun 2013 #198
That's what I'd call a great example of the perfect being the enemy of the good. Liberal Veteran Jun 2013 #206
DI, I was one of those young people who saw hope in Obama back in 2008. alp227 Jun 2013 #151
Welcome back, Drunken Irishman BainsBane Jun 2013 #152
Aliens? DirkGently Jun 2013 #159
K & R Scurrilous Jun 2013 #162
My point is absolutely echoed in many replies to this post... Drunken Irishman Jun 2013 #169
Agreed. It does seem that some folks pounce on any and everything to tear down Obama. Liberal Veteran Jun 2013 #174
Those who engage in irrational attacks know damned well you weren't talking about criticism alone. redqueen Jun 2013 #225
Second exception of the day nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #230
Who are you to determine which criticisms are "irrational" and which are not? OrwellwasRight Jun 2013 #254
Simple-minded B.S. truebluegreen Jun 2013 #171
Well for one thing FAKING accusations of racism are not going to do any good, NOBODY believes that - Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #172
You foils are like Republicans everywhere: experts on Benghazi, birth certificates, Florida recount Kolesar Jun 2013 #179
Even after DADT passed, they started saying he won't sign it! treestar Jun 2013 #184
'I could go on' NO SHIT! 3,468 words in 35 paragraphs?!?!? markiv Jun 2013 #189
for comparison, the US Constitution is 4,501 words markiv Jun 2013 #210
Using a lot of words to make a dumb argument Union Scribe Jun 2013 #190
Wrong... Drunken Irishman Jun 2013 #199
Oh please Union Scribe Jun 2013 #204
Just admit it, much of the criticism on DU is irrational... Drunken Irishman Jun 2013 #211
"corporatist" is not irrational. Union Scribe Jun 2013 #215
Yeah, it kinda is. Drunken Irishman Jun 2013 #216
"socialist" wouldn't be offensive either Union Scribe Jun 2013 #217
Instead of using throw away words, why not substance? Drunken Irishman Jun 2013 #219
To end this on a positive note I agree with you that Union Scribe Jun 2013 #220
Well said. OrwellwasRight Jun 2013 #255
You're really going to sit there and take shots at the LGBT community. Prism Jun 2013 #191
Being gay myself, I'm perplexed by the disdain shown the president... Liberal Veteran Jun 2013 #222
I can speak only for myself. Prism Jun 2013 #223
Your reply is eloquent and well-stated, but I can't share in the being sour on him. Liberal Veteran Jun 2013 #241
Well said Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #275
Freaking sickest little tirade in a long time. Safetykitten Jun 2013 #239
It is a centrist who embraced or acquiesced to too morningfog Jun 2013 #197
This OP had me practically cheering from my desk. phleshdef Jun 2013 #207
It's about issues such as a horrible surveillance policy Corruption Inc Jun 2013 #208
oh for fuck sake can't you see it's not racism it"s RIGhT WING BULLSHIT he's promulgating! boilerbabe Jun 2013 #213
Your discussion on DADT is dishonest on several levels dsc Jun 2013 #218
+1 Lord, the revision around here Prism Jun 2013 #224
Sad little show going on in this thread. Quite amazing that the gays get the first strike... Safetykitten Jun 2013 #245
Given personal poster histories Prism Jun 2013 #248
On the other hand...let's recall the 90's backlash. Liberal Veteran Jun 2013 #249
oh please dsc Jun 2013 #258
I understand your argument, but I don't agree with it. Liberal Veteran Jun 2013 #262
I don't know if you were alive or an adult when Clinton was President dsc Jun 2013 #274
Clinton DID get a free pass. He pushed for and signed DOMA, then went all over the south Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2013 #293
the same people who are speaking out now could it be dsc Jun 2013 #295
I don't know about where you lived but I lived Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2013 #296
that would be hatred from the right dsc Jun 2013 #298
It's Chiffon! Vinnie From Indy Jun 2013 #221
Cheap. Shameful. JackRiddler Jun 2013 #226
Some people come to message boards to VENT. hughee99 Jun 2013 #227
And as for Berlin, you have confused 2013 with 2008. JackRiddler Jun 2013 #228
You Liberals with your "facts" and "history" (nm) MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #234
+1 OrwellwasRight Jun 2013 #259
as long as my son is being cheated out of a good education I will criticize Obama and every other liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #231
He's not been as good as I wanted him to be Prophet 451 Jun 2013 #235
Nancy Pelosi used to be called a "bitch" here Enrique Jun 2013 #237
a search reveals that what you cast as some everyday occurrence actually happened about HiPointDem Jun 2013 #261
Hi, I am going to post something causing something and I do not know the answer... Safetykitten Jun 2013 #238
Racism. Definitely. MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #244
Manny, help me! I may be a closet racist and not know it! What do I do? Safetykitten Jun 2013 #247
I don't think it's racism at all. (Not here.) Amonester Jun 2013 #252
Swing and a miss Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #253
how about this reason: "I don't belong to an organized party. I'm a Democrat." DebJ Jun 2013 #256
This is my take on things steve2470 Jun 2013 #260
Largely overblown expectations and disappointment that it was not Hillary intaglio Jun 2013 #264
^That was really good Kolesar Jun 2013 #266
the criticisms from the left are the exact opposite of those of Fox News and based on substance yurbud Jun 2013 #265
Imagine. A poster with an offensive stereotype for a user name accusing people of being racist forestpath Jun 2013 #272
NO.FUCKING.SHIT! MotherPetrie Jun 2013 #279
You didn't actually bother reading the post, did you? intaglio Jun 2013 #282
I read it. And it's a nice wordy bit of deflection in the guise of "asking" a question forestpath Jun 2013 #284
Fine, intaglio Jun 2013 #285
word Vanje Jun 2013 #286
Good post - thank you pgr Jun 2013 #276
Progressivism. Orsino Jun 2013 #278
what u can't criticise policy Rise Rebel Resist Jun 2013 #281
Actually the policies can be defended intaglio Jun 2013 #283
then why resort to this low brow shit Rise Rebel Resist Jun 2013 #289
Of course, low brow, intaglio Jun 2013 #292
Sub racism for hate and the link runs into the same dogma Rise Rebel Resist Jun 2013 #297
Sorry but word salad is not in my diet ... intaglio Jun 2013 #304
another kick warrior1 Jun 2013 #287
If it's not racism or hate (see ProSense's OP), then it must be The Black Tax Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2013 #290
What you're describing here is called The Black Tax. Plain and simple. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2013 #294
Kick Scurrilous Jun 2013 #299
K&R BklnDem75 Jun 2013 #301
Last line is a leading sentence. I will not be boxed in by your framing. Pholus Jun 2013 #302
Is this racist? Eddie Haskell Jun 2013 #303
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