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joshcryer

(62,536 posts)

94. And yet, that position does not suggest that he "opposed it" as you falsely claimed.

Mon Feb 13, 2012, 07:11 AM

Feb 2012

Must be very muddled memory, because he never held the position that he ever "opposed it" (your words). In Libya Obama did attempt diplomacy, even as Gaddafi was making speeches about cleansing the country of its "rats." It wasn't until a whole month later that action was done.

Obama was fully consistent on this policy, there was no "change of mind."

As far as power is concerned, I believe Obama's original position was naive, and it sold well to those who ignorantly believed he was a populist, so it worked out for him, his own naivety. Bush got the Presidential position to have enormous military powers (see: targeted killing, which Obama has taken to extremes no one had ever conceived), and unfortunately in the history of the United States no President has ever not used those powers when they wanted to. No President. None. Power corrupts.

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Caught on video: Horrifying proof that Libya's freedom fighters have turned into brutal torturers [View all] David__77 Feb 2012 OP

To some of us it was obvious that we were not backing "good guys". Bonobo Feb 2012 #1

It fixed everything we wanted fixed, the existing tax structure for oil exlporation and production. Arctic Dave Feb 2012 #3

You mean the tax structure that robbed all oil revenue from the Libyan people? TheWraith Feb 2012 #4

Do we really have to go through this again? Did you not learn your lesson last time? Arctic Dave Feb 2012 #75

Really, can you provide some specific details? tabatha Feb 2012 #9

I would have thought you would have learned your lesson last time we went around on this. Arctic Dave Feb 2012 #77

Really? You are dismissing a whole nation because of the acts of a few. tabatha Feb 2012 #5

I didn't dismiss a whole nation. I will tell you specifically who I dismissed. Bonobo Feb 2012 #8

I supported the intervention because of humanitarian reasons. tabatha Feb 2012 #12

First, the Jewish thing. Bonobo Feb 2012 #32

Most of the black people in Libya were there to wor the oil fields Nevernose Feb 2012 #38

My mistake. Thanks for the correction. nt Bonobo Feb 2012 #40

Crickets on the jewish thing? I gave you the answer you requested. Bonobo Feb 2012 #47

Most of the Arab World is antisemitic. ellisonz Feb 2012 #99

This message was self-deleted by its author polly7 Feb 2012 #101

Thank you, Bonobo. Once I saw how brutal and racist the sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #15

Boy, you would have had a hard time living in South Africa after 1994. tabatha Feb 2012 #25

Yes, another African Nation destroyed by Colonialism. sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #31

Gaddafi came to power thanks to the CIA. joshcryer Feb 2012 #35

Where the EFF did I say something about colonialism. tabatha Feb 2012 #41

I gave up responding to you as you always devolve into personal attacks. sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #55

Obama has always been pro-intervention, he was against unilaterally using power... joshcryer Feb 2012 #67

And that was a contradiction of what he said in 2007. sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #85

No, he did not. That is simply false, total revisionism. joshcryer Feb 2012 #88

That is not the quote I am talking about. sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #93

And yet, that position does not suggest that he "opposed it" as you falsely claimed. joshcryer Feb 2012 #94

I'm going to end this conversation because it is the second time you have reverted to sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #95

Her intentions are good? Don't kid yourself. Having observed pattern of her posting here - Fool Count Feb 2012 #102

I disagree. What is needed is perspective. joshcryer Feb 2012 #28

42 years of violence by the state tiny elvis Feb 2012 #50

Good advice, stop allowing the propaganda we receive here to influence sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #57

Huh? joshcryer Feb 2012 #68

Please see post #6 tabatha Feb 2012 #7

Broad brush, much? joshcryer Feb 2012 #19

It is mind boggling. tabatha Feb 2012 #26

When China comes in and arms the OWS movement Bonobo Feb 2012 #33

So, actions of a few can be applied to a whole group if there's a mass insurgency or violent unrest. joshcryer Feb 2012 #36

My chief criticism is against those who support US military intervention in other countries. Bonobo Feb 2012 #46

It was going to be bad either way. joshcryer Feb 2012 #52

No, it wasn't going to be bad. That is what you are meant to believe. sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #86

Patently dishonest. joshcryer Feb 2012 #87

Another personal attack from you. sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #96

Well said...nt SidDithers Feb 2012 #43

We will never learn, will we? chrisa Feb 2012 #22

Did you know that there are some ex-freedom fighters who are protecting the Tawerga in Libya? tabatha Feb 2012 #2

Yes, there is no unified force. David__77 Feb 2012 #14

Freedom fighters, my @ss. EFerrari Feb 2012 #18

Wise, my ass. tabatha Feb 2012 #27

You're still defending these people, not only after their abuses have become plain EFerrari Feb 2012 #39

If you read what I said tabatha Feb 2012 #44

Do you give South African whites the pass on apartheid as you did Germans vis a vis Nazism? nt Bonobo Feb 2012 #48

Nope. Because I personally fought against it. tabatha Feb 2012 #56

Got it. Germans = not responsible. South Africans = responsible. Bonobo Feb 2012 #59

Nope you have got it wrong. tabatha Feb 2012 #63

BTW, I was arrested demonstrating for divestment from the Apartheid govt. of S. Africa. nt Bonobo Feb 2012 #66

And in response to this OP, you post an incredibly idiotic propaganda piece EFerrari Feb 2012 #49

20k were murdered during apartheid, 175k were murdered after. joshcryer Feb 2012 #21

Yes, it is funny how some people here are unwittingly mimicking the pro-apartheid people. tabatha Feb 2012 #30

They're indistinguishable from the pro-apartheid people. joshcryer Feb 2012 #53

OMG. You have not only jumped the shark. Bonobo Feb 2012 #58

Militias from Benghazi and Zintan are trying to protect a refugee camp of 1,500 people tabatha Feb 2012 #6

Actually more judging of American people for the actions of their government would be a good thing. Bonobo Feb 2012 #10

Yes, if the truth is known. tabatha Feb 2012 #23

"I do not blame Germans who had no part in the decisions made by Hitler. " Bonobo Feb 2012 #37

You really stretech the meaning of what I say. tabatha Feb 2012 #60

I did not assign anything to you. Bonobo Feb 2012 #62

Still waiting for your reply to the anti-semitic issue re the Libyan rebels. n Bonobo Feb 2012 #65

It is simply not worth the effort. tabatha Feb 2012 #70

I am referring to the anti-semitism of the Libyan rebels. Bonobo Feb 2012 #71

I've seen this before. joshcryer Feb 2012 #74

I think you need sleep. Bonobo Feb 2012 #78

Yes, I looked up that quote, you conveniently left out the whole quote. joshcryer Feb 2012 #80

The rest of the quote did nothing to change the meaning. Bonobo Feb 2012 #83

The book in question, if I am not wrong, does not absolve the German people either. sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #97

"Judge the individual": did that apply to the pro-Gaddafi forces? David__77 Feb 2012 #16

Yes, any pro-Gaddafi force that took part in atrocities of their own free will are guilty. tabatha Feb 2012 #24

And those that did not, are not guilty. David__77 Feb 2012 #29

Correction to the OP. They didn't "turn" into anything. They always were. nanabugg Feb 2012 #11

Wow, what a judge you are. tabatha Feb 2012 #20

Well, we did probably pay them to sit back and whack Ghadafi and his family. Not sure why. n/t Leopolds Ghost Feb 2012 #13

Or at least 3 random thugs. Swede Feb 2012 #17

Yes, because these 3 assholes represent all the rebels! *SARCASM* Odin2005 Feb 2012 #34

The people of Tawergha have not been allowed to go home. David__77 Feb 2012 #42

See post 89. Odin2005 Feb 2012 #90

Systematic abuse of detainees has been reported at a number of facilities, unfortunately. EFerrari Feb 2012 #45

I am not defending those commiting abuses. Odin2005 Feb 2012 #89

And the French were evil for helping us in the American Revolution?? JoePhilly Feb 2012 #51

Have the Libyan rebels produced any great works of political philosophy? Bonobo Feb 2012 #54

Is that how you judge a people. tabatha Feb 2012 #61

It is how I judge how prepared they are to set up a good, mature political system. Bonobo Feb 2012 #64

Heh, it took 5 years for the US to vote after the Revolutionary War. joshcryer Feb 2012 #69

Again, it is not a trashing of the Libyan people. Bonobo Feb 2012 #72

"it is not a trashing of the Libyan people" "a true people's movement" joshcryer Feb 2012 #73

Huh? You totally missed my point. Bonobo Feb 2012 #76

1) a peoples are not represented by their fighters 2) fighters do not represent the sole source... joshcryer Feb 2012 #79

Look how well it is going. Bonobo Feb 2012 #81

Continue trashing. joshcryer Feb 2012 #82

Yes,I will keep on resisting US military intervention and killing. Thanks. nt Bonobo Feb 2012 #84

So you were against us interviening in Bosnia? Odin2005 Feb 2012 #91

No, I wasn't. But like I said, the US is batting .100 or below. Bonobo Feb 2012 #92

You're not alone, fortunately. And now it seems the rest of the world is resisting it also. sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #98

And we're surprised? Taverner Feb 2012 #100