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In reply to the discussion: Yet Another NSA Program Raises Questions About Obama's Statements to Charlie Rose [View all]leveymg
(36,418 posts)59. You had your chance to argue that last night, and failed. Unless you bring any new facts or
arguments to the table, please show enough common courtesy to stop spewing. Nobody's making anything up here, except maybe the President.
BTW: here are two other violations of Sec. 702 that we can argue about. Shall we?
Reverse lookups ("trace-backs" from targets abroad) are illegal under 1881(b)(2), and minimization of US person data is mandatory under Sec. 1881(e). The President's statement seems to imply that neither part of the law is being followed.
Here is what Sec. 702 of the 2008 FISA Amendment, as codified at 50 USC Sec. 1881, requires: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/1881a
50 USC § 1881a - Procedures for targeting certain persons outside the United States other than United States persons
(a) Authorization
Notwithstanding any other provision of law, upon the issuance of an order in accordance with subsection (i)(3) or a determination under subsection (c)(2), the Attorney General and the Director of National Intelligence may authorize jointly, for a period of up to 1 year from the effective date of the authorization, the targeting of persons reasonably believed to be located outside the United States to acquire foreign intelligence information.
(b) Limitations
An acquisition authorized under subsection (a)
(1) may not intentionally target any person known at the time of acquisition to be located in the United States;
(2) may not intentionally target a person reasonably believed to be located outside the United States if the purpose of such acquisition is to target a particular, known person reasonably believed to be in the United States;
(3) may not intentionally target a United States person reasonably believed to be located outside the United States;
(4) may not intentionally acquire any communication as to which the sender and all intended recipients are known at the time of the acquisition to be located in the United States; and
(5) shall be conducted in a manner consistent with the fourth amendment to the Constitution of the United States.
(c) Conduct of acquisition
(1) In general
An acquisition authorized under subsection (a) shall be conducted only in accordance with
(A) the targeting and minimization procedures adopted in accordance with subsections (d) and (e); and
(B) upon submission of a certification in accordance with subsection (g), such certification.
(2) Determination
A determination under this paragraph and for purposes of subsection (a) is a determination by the Attorney General and the Director of National Intelligence that exigent circumstances exist because, without immediate implementation of an authorization under subsection (a), intelligence important to the national security of the United States may be lost or not timely acquired and time does not permit the issuance of an order pursuant to subsection (i)(3) prior to the implementation of such authorization.
(3) Timing of determination
The Attorney General and the Director of National Intelligence may make the determination under paragraph (2)
(A) before the submission of a certification in accordance with subsection (g); or
(B) by amending a certification pursuant to subsection (i)(1)(C) at any time during which judicial review under subsection (i) of such certification is pending.
(4) Construction
Nothing in subchapter I shall be construed to require an application for a court order under such subchapter for an acquisition that is targeted in accordance with this section at a person reasonably believed to be located outside the United States.
(d) Targeting procedures
(1) Requirement to adopt
The Attorney General, in consultation with the Director of National Intelligence, shall adopt targeting procedures that are reasonably designed to
(A) ensure that any acquisition authorized under subsection (a) is limited to targeting persons reasonably believed to be located outside the United States; and
(B) prevent the intentional acquisition of any communication as to which the sender and all intended recipients are known at the time of the acquisition to be located in the United States.
(2) Judicial review
The procedures adopted in accordance with paragraph (1) shall be subject to judicial review pursuant to subsection (i).
(e) Minimization procedures
(1) Requirement to adopt
The Attorney General, in consultation with the Director of National Intelligence, shall adopt minimization procedures that meet the definition of minimization procedures under section 1801 (h) of this title or section 1821 (4) of this title, as appropriate, for acquisitions authorized under subsection (a).
(2) Judicial review
The minimization procedures adopted in accordance with paragraph (1) shall be subject to judicial review pursuant to subsection (i).
Let's dance.
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Yet Another NSA Program Raises Questions About Obama's Statements to Charlie Rose [View all]
leveymg
Jun 2013
OP
We at least deserve not to be further confused by contradictory official statements.
leveymg
Jun 2013
#2
Or, perhaps, he understands it so well that he can state facts like a lawyer - selectively,
leveymg
Jun 2013
#5
I think Obama was parsing words as instructed and will claim that this wasn't "listening" to calls
cascadiance
Jun 2013
#7
What's the importance of whether the NSA keeps voice and email content, or just metadata?
leveymg
Jun 2013
#8
Here's the rub: Sec. 702(e) requires the NSA to minimize US person data - they aren't. It's illegal
leveymg
Jun 2013
#58
Yes - LinkedIn, the job networking site, contains many resumes that reference these programs
leveymg
Jun 2013
#12
No, I'm not conflating. But, Obama's statement is confusing as it seems to say that voice content
leveymg
Jun 2013
#13
No. The data is being collected as part of 2015 but retained for 702. That's illegal.
leveymg
Jun 2013
#15
You are misreading the information and taking the President's statements out of context. n/t
ProSense
Jun 2013
#16
Explain that, please. I've provided the context because the context makes it clear he's
leveymg
Jun 2013
#17
There are also "exigent circumstances" that give them another week to obtain a warrant.
leveymg
Jun 2013
#57
Bill Binney says it's based in profiling and terrorism potential scoring software.
leveymg
Jun 2013
#74
I have to agree with about 99% of that. However, they have much more than metadata on which to
leveymg
Jun 2013
#77
this is the person that was measuring that bush droned more people to protect their hero
Monkie
Jun 2013
#47
Acton also said something about the consequences of failure to learn from history.
leveymg
Jun 2013
#29
exactly, to think that a "nerd" like snowden, and a lawyer like greenwald are stupid
Monkie
Jun 2013
#48
Ths OP is nonsense, but people are determined to make up stuff to call Obama a liar.
ProSense
Jun 2013
#54
You had your chance to argue that last night, and failed. Unless you bring any new facts or
leveymg
Jun 2013
#59
So assuming he is telling the truth, this 'collection' of theirs would be useless and the
sabrina 1
Jun 2013
#45
I wish that Rose had asked: 1) Do you do reverse lookups? 2) Do you minimize the data? Because
leveymg
Jun 2013
#51
But if NUCLEON is only recording and storing phone calls that take place in other countries
Jarla
Jun 2013
#87
NSA analysts, and the MAINWAY/MARINA systems have access to virtually all gov't databanks
leveymg
Jun 2013
#89
"Every government is run by liars and nothing they say should be believed." ~I.F. Stone
DeSwiss
Jun 2013
#83
The "Presidents credibility" was in doubt from the get go with his appointments
xtraxritical
Jun 2013
#91