General Discussion

GreenStormCloud

(12,072 posts)

198. It takes much more than speaking Chinese to trace a Chinese gun.

Thu Jun 20, 2013, 10:27 AM

Jun 2013

In each case, it takes the cooperation of the government of the country that the gun was made in. Our government has to ask their government to trace the gun. Some of those governments will not want their black market dealing in the international arms market traced. Others simply don't keep those kinds of records.

And some guns will not have a country of manufacture and serial number stamped on them and will be untraceable.

Foriegn guns that were imported into the U.S. and then trafficed to Mexico can be traced in the U.S. and count as part of the 87% of the 24%.

The Mexicans aren't stupid. They know which guns we can't possibly trace and won't bother asking us to trace them.

Where do you think the cartels get their machine guns, grenades, and rockets?

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

244 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

When Men Hate Women: Femicide in Ciudad Juarez [View all] BainsBane Jun 2013 OP

k and r for this horrific story. I used to go to ciudad juarez years ago, when it was relatively niyad Jun 2013 #1

I live two miles from Juarez. rl6214 Jun 2013 #2

The Madonna/Whore complex SoCalDem Jun 2013 #19

So true. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #91

ALL Mexican men consider themselves to be Don Juans datasuspect Jun 2013 #121

You take every comment literally? rl6214 Jun 2013 #127

your question doesn't make any sense datasuspect Jun 2013 #187

The documentary links the killings to demand for drugs in the US BainsBane Jun 2013 #3

book links it to NAFTA and the factories that sprung up at the border Monkie Jun 2013 #6

Maquilas predate NAFTA BainsBane Jun 2013 #7

didnt realise it was as bad then Monkie Jun 2013 #8

the murders kicked up around 1993 BainsBane Jun 2013 #10

maybe NAFTA was too much of a shortcut Monkie Jun 2013 #11

Indeed, and hatred of women BainsBane Jun 2013 #12

I would guess that NAFTA contributed to a flood of new female workers to Juarez... antigone382 Jun 2013 #26

Yours is the most reasonable guess. N/T GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #29

That could well be the case BainsBane Jun 2013 #31

It's not just Mexico senseandsensibility Jun 2013 #4

Of course BainsBane Jun 2013 #5

Do you have any evidence that the killers are Americans crossing the border for kicks? GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #16

WTF do you think? They act with impunity. BainsBane Jun 2013 #17

So you still don't have any evidence. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #18

They haven't been caught BainsBane Jun 2013 #20

You are the one accusing Americans of doing the killing. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #23

What difference does it make to you? BainsBane Jun 2013 #36

from the Harvard, DRCLAS piece BainsBane Jun 2013 #21

From the Harvard DRCLAS piece: GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #28

I do, which is why I work for gun control BainsBane Jun 2013 #38

Why are you making this a fight? Why does this conversation make you jump to being offended? Squinch Jun 2013 #41

"although we discount wild theories like snuff films. . . " zazen Jun 2013 #107

I wish I could say I disagreed. BainsBane Jun 2013 #130

The TV series Weeds touched on this siligut Jun 2013 #9

Sadly, these women in Juarez referenced above don't make it long enough BainsBane Jun 2013 #14

then again, gejohnston Jun 2013 #125

I completely disproved that NRA propaganda BainsBane Jun 2013 #128

actually you disproved nothing gejohnston Jun 2013 #132

You didn't even take time to look at the numbers BainsBane Jun 2013 #134

project much? gejohnston Jun 2013 #136

Here is the post about Statfor BainsBane Jun 2013 #139

I know the difference between secondary and primary source documents gejohnston Jun 2013 #140

If you want to compare the effectiveness of gun bans BainsBane Jun 2013 #147

UK is irrelevant because gejohnston Jun 2013 #153

You consider them irrelevant BainsBane Jun 2013 #157

the UK murder rate was still lower before any gun control gejohnston Jun 2013 #173

You bet wrong BainsBane Jun 2013 #183

Stratfor does nothing but provide a pro gun assessment of the GAO report BainsBane Jun 2013 #151

China or Russia as a source of AK-47s makes a lot of sense. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #163

and transportation all the way from across the world BainsBane Jun 2013 #168

Transportation is cheap. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #178

if the price is right, it would make sense edit to add gejohnston Jun 2013 #174

Oh, no media accounts are reliable BainsBane Jun 2013 #184

over generalization gejohnston Jun 2013 #188

Oh right BainsBane Jun 2013 #220

slate said the same thing gejohnston Jun 2013 #232

said what? BainsBane Jun 2013 #233

no gejohnston Jun 2013 #235

This is a very strange exchange BainsBane Jun 2013 #237

By the way, these dead women are all under 35 BainsBane Jun 2013 #13

Note the gunners think El Paso is paradise. BainsBane Jun 2013 #15

No - we just know El Paso has an extremely low murder rate hack89 Jun 2013 #30

I wonder how many NRA members vacation there? BainsBane Jun 2013 #40

Anyone looking for a safe place would certainly enjoy vacationing there hack89 Jun 2013 #56

Try reading the OP BainsBane Jun 2013 #57

I know - American CCW holders killing women and smuggling the bodies into Mexico hack89 Jun 2013 #58

Where does the OP mention CC or guns at all? BainsBane Jun 2013 #59

True - you just think it is Americans in general hack89 Jun 2013 #61

Look at the date BainsBane Jun 2013 #63

My bad. hack89 Jun 2013 #67

Wrong about what? BainsBane Jun 2013 #69

That liberal gun laws result in increased gun violence hack89 Jun 2013 #70

That's dishonest bullshit BainsBane Jun 2013 #72

We are talking about America, not Mexico hack89 Jun 2013 #73

Gunner number 1 BainsBane Jun 2013 #74

I make the travel reservations for the people I work with tammywammy Jun 2013 #76

"highly likely that rapists and murderers go across the border" hack89 Jun 2013 #77

Why wouldn't they? BainsBane Jun 2013 #79

Chicago's murder rate is down 40% this year BainsBane Jun 2013 #75

Everyone's murder rate is at historic lows hack89 Jun 2013 #78

40% in one year? Really? No BainsBane Jun 2013 #80

Their murder rate went up 16% in 2012 hack89 Jun 2013 #106

It is down 40% this year BainsBane Jun 2013 #129

It was down 40% from Jan to April. Cumulatively to date it's down 34%. n/t tammywammy Jun 2013 #131

Thank you for that clarification BainsBane Jun 2013 #149

Summer is the killing season in Chicago hack89 Jun 2013 #133

I didn't say gun laws were responsible for the drop BainsBane Jun 2013 #150

Considering the vast majority of murders are intra-racial hack89 Jun 2013 #166

No, it doesn't BainsBane Jun 2013 #169

Show me any group using CCW laws to travel to cities and "hand out weapons" hack89 Jun 2013 #179

A theory should have some evidence to back it up. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #180

Well, I could always try your tactic BainsBane Jun 2013 #238

I thought I read somewhere... NaturalHigh Jun 2013 #55

the gunners love to point out how safe El Paso is BainsBane Jun 2013 #60

Never been there, just quoting statistics. NaturalHigh Jun 2013 #62

Evidence for your allegations? You don't have any. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #82

speaking of evidence BainsBane Jun 2013 #84

You are the one making the accusations. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #90

I didn't make an accusation BainsBane Jun 2013 #92

So you admit you have ZERO evidence that Americans are doing it. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #110

Not really. "Accusation" and "theory" are two wholly separate concepts. LanternWaste Jun 2013 #116

She began, in other posts, with a flat-out accusation. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #120

Yes, just as there is zero evidence that Mexicans are the killers BainsBane Jun 2013 #141

That article doesn't specify the sex of the victims BainsBane Jun 2013 #94

Murder rate in Mexico BainsBane Jun 2013 #95

I am comparing two adjancent, similar cities. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #111

Your comparison is an NRA scam BainsBane Jun 2013 #112

The numbers didn't come from the NRA. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #113

That story gets more distorted with each telling BainsBane Jun 2013 #143

What percentage of guns did the Mexican goverment submit to the US government for tracing? hack89 Jun 2013 #145

24% according to the pro-gun site BainsBane Jun 2013 #154

So .24 X .87 = 20% of guns seized in Mexico come from America hack89 Jun 2013 #167

Of those that are traceable BainsBane Jun 2013 #171

No, serial numbers were not filed off the rest hack89 Jun 2013 #177

Wrong BainsBane Jun 2013 #193

I have no problem giving the ATF the tools they need to combat gun trafficking hack89 Jun 2013 #196

Obviously there is far more involved than just guns BainsBane Jun 2013 #200

I would completely support the legalization of drugs. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #204

Yes, isn't that nice BainsBane Jun 2013 #205

I haven't distorted the Mexican info. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #206

But what that doesn't say BainsBane Jun 2013 #208

Foreign guns legally imported to the U.S. can be traced. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #211

No, I don't BainsBane Jun 2013 #227

Round-about smuggling routes are expensive. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #241

Not only did I read page 16 BainsBane Jun 2013 #209

And only 24% were submitted. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #217

Yes, that was the sample BainsBane Jun 2013 #228

Nope, not a sample. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #242

The sample was NOT random. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #181

Mexico doesn't submit all guns for tracing. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #176

Did you read the part of the report BainsBane Jun 2013 #186

It takes much more than speaking Chinese to trace a Chinese gun. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #198

What possible reason would the Mexican government have BainsBane Jun 2013 #240

The Mexican gov't doesn't camouflage the gun sources. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #244

Hundreds of women killed, thousands of men killed. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #22

yes, to these folks men are expendable meatshields. nt galileoreloaded Jun 2013 #24

But the OP completely ignores the thousands of men killed. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #25

no, i get it and you are correct. its an attempt to define a protected class. i fight it often. nt galileoreloaded Jun 2013 #27

what you mean is your effort to deny these murders BainsBane Jun 2013 #33

i think you might need or want a break from DU because your ability to read my mind galileoreloaded Jun 2013 #39

"targeting"? lumberjack_jeff Jun 2013 #47

WTF BainsBane Jun 2013 #49

Do you not see a difference between when members of drug cartels Squinch Jun 2013 #54

Actually a number of sources BainsBane Jun 2013 #64

Ok. I'll edit. Thanks. Squinch Jun 2013 #66

I counted ALL the murdered. ALL 3,111 of them. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #83

1) I was talking to another poster BainsBane Jun 2013 #85

Here's clear evidence of sexism BainsBane Jun 2013 #87

Oh, DO you? DO you "fight it often"? As often as men murder women? WinkyDink Jun 2013 #43

men are murdered 3-1 over women nationally. go bark up a different tree nt galileoreloaded Jun 2013 #44

By men. Try THAT tree. And not, as the OP notes, SEXUALLY tortured. WinkyDink Jun 2013 #46

so men killing men doesn't count. most sexist quote ive seen on DU. please stop making galileoreloaded Jun 2013 #48

Learn to read BainsBane Jun 2013 #98

pick one galileoreloaded Jun 2013 #101

Do you have to ask? BainsBane Jun 2013 #102

Fixed it for ya! galileoreloaded Jun 2013 #103

Just make an effort to stick with the reality based community BainsBane Jun 2013 #104

and 87% of homicides are committed by men BainsBane Jun 2013 #51

Yeah, that has to do with the minor fact the serial killers are targeting women BainsBane Jun 2013 #32

This OP is a she BainsBane Jun 2013 #34

Reading comprehension, much? The OP DOES mention men, but notes that their murders ARE NOT WinkyDink Jun 2013 #42

Thanks for that. BainsBane Jun 2013 #53

If you would like to make an OP about the deaths of men in Juarez, which are primarily from the Squinch Jun 2013 #65

The fight started in another thread. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #81

Yes, regardless of your views about guns BainsBane Jun 2013 #97

So maybe you should be fighting on a page about Mexican gun laws, and not be Squinch Jun 2013 #124

there is nothing stopping you from posting an article on the number of men killed, you know. niyad Jun 2013 #114

Yeah, well that rest of that is courtesy of your friends in the gun lobby BainsBane Jun 2013 #35

Most of the cartel's guns are smuggled in for countries that make real AK-47s. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #86

proof? BainsBane Jun 2013 #96

That from you!! CokeMachine Jun 2013 #99

He asks it constantly, and in the most bizarre instances BainsBane Jun 2013 #100

Thanks for the laugh!! nt CokeMachine Jun 2013 #118

I know more about evidence and primary sources BainsBane Jun 2013 #135

If you say so and it makes you feel superior. CokeMachine Jun 2013 #146

You contribute so much to this discussion BainsBane Jun 2013 #156

No heavier than yours!! CokeMachine Jun 2013 #207

up to 66 recs BainsBane Jun 2013 #210

Cool -- if that's what makes you feel good about yourself CokeMachine Jun 2013 #214

I thought we were in your favorite thread BainsBane Jun 2013 #216

If you want to address that thread then post in it -- please. CokeMachine Jun 2013 #218

Bait? BainsBane Jun 2013 #229

Ok -- if you say so!! CokeMachine Jun 2013 #236

I gave it to you. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #109

The ATF shows 87% came from the US, murder apologist corp. says 90% didn't come from US BainsBane Jun 2013 #138

actually, we knew all of that gejohnston Jun 2013 #144

The logical fallacy is yours BainsBane Jun 2013 #152

sample frame error gejohnston Jun 2013 #155

Now you've contradicted yourself. BainsBane Jun 2013 #158

when did I contradict myself? gejohnston Jun 2013 #172

I mentioned a case in Texas BainsBane Jun 2013 #182

Some newspaper accounts are better than others gejohnston Jun 2013 #192

now that I'm fully awake, gejohnston Jun 2013 #202

GAO report BainsBane Jun 2013 #185

key words being gejohnston Jun 2013 #190

That is 87% of 24% of the total. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #197

Look at ALL the numbers, not just the ones you want to see. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #175

The people of Juarez have lots of guns BainsBane Jun 2013 #37

Start your own thread, then. BTW: Serial sex murders are not the same category as other killings. WinkyDink Jun 2013 #45

You realize we are talking about a single killer here, right? BainsBane Jun 2013 #71

When I count ALL the deaths, I am not discounting anybody. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #88

Look at what you did here BainsBane Jun 2013 #89

I don't think that illustrating concern for A denies in any way any additional concern for B. LanternWaste Jun 2013 #117

See my post #81. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #122

So it's OK for you to hijack a discussion about a serial killer to push a fight from another thread? Squinch Jun 2013 #126

In the other thread she referred to this thread to make her point. N/T GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #165

No, I referred to this thread so you would learn something BainsBane Jun 2013 #225

I compared total HUMAN deaths to total HUMAN deaths. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #243

What the hell difference does that make? Squinch Jun 2013 #239

Great (and chilling) book on the subject arely staircase Jun 2013 #50

Thanks! BainsBane Jun 2013 #52

k&r Liberal_in_LA Jun 2013 #68

K&R ismnotwasm Jun 2013 #93

I live in El Paso BellaKos Jun 2013 #105

Thanks for sharing that BainsBane Jun 2013 #108

?El Paso's low violent crime rate, high natual lithium duhneece Jun 2013 #137

Shouldn't Juarez have similar lithium levels? N/T GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #201

. . . niyad Jun 2013 #115

This message was self-deleted by its author Catherina Jun 2013 #119

Most likely several serial killers, Quantess Jun 2013 #123

the OP downbythelake Jun 2013 #142

I didn't say a thing about guns or gun nuts in the OP BainsBane Jun 2013 #148

I just want to say... Pelican Jun 2013 #159

That's what you think my signature says? BainsBane Jun 2013 #160

But gun policy is a perfect example of what Paz meant BainsBane Jun 2013 #161

you dont think the OP title wrote itself did you? galileoreloaded Jun 2013 #162

A fear based response to serial killing? BainsBane Jun 2013 #164

i wasnt talking to you. nt galileoreloaded Jun 2013 #199

remdi95 BainsBane Jun 2013 #213

interesting.... opiate69 Jun 2013 #223

Totally deserved BainsBane Jun 2013 #224

Careful, now. Your transparency page is recently clean. opiate69 Jun 2013 #230

Did you take that as an insult? BainsBane Jun 2013 #231

My interpretation of it may have been wrong. If so, I apologize. opiate69 Jun 2013 #234

Jury results: Lizzie Poppet Jun 2013 #215

its nice to see rational thought rewarded 6-0. DU never lets me down! nt galileoreloaded Jun 2013 #221

prostitution and family violence both unchecked in the Mad Max lands Sunlei Jun 2013 #170

Women and employment Bosso 63 Jun 2013 #189

Yes, the documentary linked makes that very point BainsBane Jun 2013 #194

It's the culture.... loose wheel Jun 2013 #191

The Harvard report specifically addresses that view BainsBane Jun 2013 #195

Yes. Mexican culture does treat women that way. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #203

OMG BainsBane Jun 2013 #212

Interesting ismnotwasm Jun 2013 #219

witness how powerful the evil Islam is BainsBane Jun 2013 #222

Nope ismnotwasm Jun 2013 #226