General Discussion

reusrename

(1,716 posts)

80. You're absolutely right that we need some creativity.

Thu Jun 20, 2013, 03:03 PM

Jun 2013

I surpassed my fear threshold several years ago. Now I just want to look at what's in the matrix. It seems the shadow government could be rooted out very effectively with this technology. I want it all made public. At least the part that is used for the targeting portion of the system.

I know that this new science is much more effective than the old "cell and block leader" systems that were used by the vichy governments of occupied Europe. But that's exactly how we should view ourselves, as an occupied citizenry with a shadow government that will stop at nothing to stay in power.

So that's how things break down in my view. It no longer has anything to do with party or national labels. We (the ones who are trying to change things) are up against the most sophisticated organization that's ever existed.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

96 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Yet Another NSA Program Raises Questions About Obama's Statements to Charlie Rose [View all] leveymg Jun 2013 OP

full candor grasswire Jun 2013 #1

We at least deserve not to be further confused by contradictory official statements. leveymg Jun 2013 #2

I'm beginning to wonder if Obama understands this program at all leftstreet Jun 2013 #3

Or, perhaps, he understands it so well that he can state facts like a lawyer - selectively, leveymg Jun 2013 #5

I dount they let any president know everything about it magellan Jun 2013 #6

military industrial complex questionseverything Jun 2013 #37

I agree with you. JDPriestly Jun 2013 #88

K&R for TRUTH! n/t Skip Intro Jun 2013 #4

I think Obama was parsing words as instructed and will claim that this wasn't "listening" to calls cascadiance Jun 2013 #7

+1 n/t Catherina Jun 2013 #20

Right.. Human Agency is required for "listening" nice fig leaf... bobduca Jun 2013 #30

They should just come out and admit it, but like pot Rex Jun 2013 #71

What's the importance of whether the NSA keeps voice and email content, or just metadata? leveymg Jun 2013 #8

Double-think. reusrename Jun 2013 #50

Here's the rub: Sec. 702(e) requires the NSA to minimize US person data - they aren't. It's illegal leveymg Jun 2013 #58

I was making a reference to the prophet Orwell. reusrename Jun 2013 #69

Absolutely! When you parse Obama's statement, you get two mutually exclusive leveymg Jun 2013 #70

I believe he is articulating the government's position rather accurately. reusrename Jun 2013 #73

Any confirmation of these programs? tia uponit7771 Jun 2013 #9

Yes - LinkedIn, the job networking site, contains many resumes that reference these programs leveymg Jun 2013 #12

unbelievable, and these are the people "protecting" us, "we" fear them? Monkie Jun 2013 #46

why get into the details, let the press do the heavy lifting... n/t CrazyJudy Jun 2013 #10

Cute. Yuk yuk yuk... ReRe Jun 2013 #36

You're conflating ProSense Jun 2013 #11

No, I'm not conflating. But, Obama's statement is confusing as it seems to say that voice content leveymg Jun 2013 #13

Yes, he said that, but that's in the context of a specific program. n/t ProSense Jun 2013 #14

No. The data is being collected as part of 2015 but retained for 702. That's illegal. leveymg Jun 2013 #15

You are misreading the information and taking the President's statements out of context. n/t ProSense Jun 2013 #16

Explain that, please. I've provided the context because the context makes it clear he's leveymg Jun 2013 #17

There is nothing ProSense Jun 2013 #18

What do you think happens to all that content that eventually goes into 702? leveymg Jun 2013 #25

You are misinterpreting what is being reported. n/t ProSense Jun 2013 #32

did i not tell you that this would end in tears for you soon a few days ago? Monkie Jun 2013 #49

2 parts? questionseverything Jun 2013 #39

I don't think what you said is exactly accurate. reusrename Jun 2013 #53

There are also "exigent circumstances" that give them another week to obtain a warrant. leveymg Jun 2013 #57

I think the whole mechanism is automated. reusrename Jun 2013 #72

Bill Binney says it's based in profiling and terrorism potential scoring software. leveymg Jun 2013 #74

Apples and oranges, I believe. reusrename Jun 2013 #76

I have to agree with about 99% of that. However, they have much more than metadata on which to leveymg Jun 2013 #77

You're absolutely right that we need some creativity. reusrename Jun 2013 #80

do we have any idea what constitutes questionseverything Jun 2013 #75

There are general guidelines, but those are subject to interpretation. leveymg Jun 2013 #78

willfully misunderstanding the president isnt the same as fighting tyranny sigmasix Jun 2013 #24

702 and 2015 are just two parts of the same program. leveymg Jun 2013 #26

this is the person that was measuring that bush droned more people to protect their hero Monkie Jun 2013 #47

What makes you believe Obama has the correct answers? reusrename Jun 2013 #55

Too bad he didn't volunteer THAT detail up front. Pholus Jun 2013 #52

kick Liberal_in_LA Jun 2013 #19

Somebody's LYING blkmusclmachine Jun 2013 #21

There's no content? So all those acres at Bluffdale are to store flat files? Catherina Jun 2013 #22

What Lord Acton said... Octafish Jun 2013 #23

Acton also said something about the consequences of failure to learn from history. leveymg Jun 2013 #29

What better than to have someone unexpected lead its return? Octafish Jun 2013 #65

But, but, but........it's JUST METADATA! Yeah, right. Th1onein Jun 2013 #27

This is what is driving all the racism bullshit. The Link Jun 2013 #28

POTUS has fooled himself into thinking the only program to be exposed is PRISM. dkf Jun 2013 #31

exactly, to think that a "nerd" like snowden, and a lawyer like greenwald are stupid Monkie Jun 2013 #48

We knew it was in there somewhere Hydra Jun 2013 #33

Surprise! Fearless Jun 2013 #34

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Jun 2013 #35

Oops anther cat...out of the bag nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #38

K&R ReRe Jun 2013 #40

This one is definitely military intelligence related. DevonRex Jun 2013 #41

Ths OP is nonsense, but people are determined to make up stuff to call Obama a liar. ProSense Jun 2013 #54

You had your chance to argue that last night, and failed. Unless you bring any new facts or leveymg Jun 2013 #59

ACLU: Calls and Emails can't be "targeted" under FISA, but certainly collected temmer Jun 2013 #42

How many of us are more than "two hops" from Bin Laden? 51%? leveymg Jun 2013 #67

ugh. : | allin99 Jun 2013 #90

This makes no sense to me: sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #43

Yep - reverse phone number search temmer Jun 2013 #44

So assuming he is telling the truth, this 'collection' of theirs would be useless and the sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #45

I wish that Rose had asked: 1) Do you do reverse lookups? 2) Do you minimize the data? Because leveymg Jun 2013 #51

still tiltiing at windmills? sigmasix Jun 2013 #56

Who the fuck are you? Oilwellian Jun 2013 #60

This post was alerted on. The jury voted 6/0 to let it stand. ohiosmith Jun 2013 #62

Amen JustAnotherGen Jun 2013 #63

Right on! ohiosmith Jun 2013 #64

Good jury Progressive dog Jun 2013 #92

Not windmills: leveymg has stood up to the giant Beast. Octafish Jun 2013 #66

I guess this nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #68

Wow, that was one of the best posts LondonReign2 Jun 2013 #81

According to the White House they typically madville Jun 2013 #61

leveymg is a great poster at DU. Thank you. kr PufPuf23 Jun 2013 #79

I think there are 2 separate databases Jarla Jun 2013 #82

The question is, how separate are they? leveymg Jun 2013 #84

But if NUCLEON is only recording and storing phone calls that take place in other countries Jarla Jun 2013 #87

NSA analysts, and the MAINWAY/MARINA systems have access to virtually all gov't databanks leveymg Jun 2013 #89

I'm guessing they are as separate as ohheckyeah Jun 2013 #95

"Every government is run by liars and nothing they say should be believed." ~I.F. Stone DeSwiss Jun 2013 #83

Kick for later. hootinholler Jun 2013 #85

yes we scan limpyhobbler Jun 2013 #86

The "Presidents credibility" was in doubt from the get go with his appointments xtraxritical Jun 2013 #91

You can vote Green next time Progressive dog Jun 2013 #93

His endorsements of these things, what do you think your smart? I don't. xtraxritical Jun 2013 #94

You don't like to be agreed with? Progressive dog Jun 2013 #96