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In reply to the discussion: Chomsky: Obama Is ‘Dedicated To Increasing Terrorism’ [View all]limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)202. It's easy to dismiss evidence even when presented with it if your mind is already made up.
US Drone Strike Policies Foment Anti-American Sentiment and May Aid Recruitment to Armed Non-State Actors
Admiral Mike Mullen has observed,
Each time an errant bomb or a bomb accurately aimed but against the wrong target kills or hurts civilians, we risk setting out strategy back months, if not years. Despite the fact that the Taliban kill and maim far more than we do, civilian casualty incidents such as those weve recently seen in Afghanistan will hurt us more in the long run than any tactical success we may achieve against the enemy.(39)
It is clear from polling and our research teams interviews that drone strikes breed resentment and discontent toward the US, and there is evidence to suggest that the strikes have aided militant recruitment and motivated terrorist activity.
US drone strikes are extremely unpopular in Pakistan. A 2012 poll by the Pew Research Centers Global Attitude project found that only 17% of Pakistanis supported drone strikes. And remarkably, among those who professed to know a lot or a little about drones, 97% considered drone strikes bad policy.(40) As numerous analysts have noted, (i)f the price of the drone campaign that increasingly kills only low-level Taliban is alienating 180 million Pakistanisthat is too high a price to pay.(41)
The Waziris interviewed for this report almost uniformly reported having neutral or in some instances positive views of the US before the advent of the drone campaign. One 18-year-old, for example, admitted, (f)rankly speaking, before the drone attacks, I didnt know anything about a country called America. I didnt know where it was or its role in international affairs.(42) But the strikes now foster the development of strongly negative views toward the US. Another interviewee explained: Before the drone attacks, we didnt know (anything) about America. Now everybody has come to understand and know about America . . . . Almost all people hate America.(43) Noor Khan, whose father, Daud Khan, a respected community leader, was killed when a drone struck the March 17, 2011 jirga over which he presided, remarked that America on one hand claims that it wants to bring peace to the world and it wants to bring education. But look at them, what they are doing?(44) One man, who has lost relatives in drone strikes, expressed his deep-seated anger toward the US, declaring that we wont forget our blood, for two hundred, two thousand, five thousand yearswe will take our revenge for these drone attacks.(45) A Waziri who lost his younger brother in a strike stated that there would be revenge: Blood for blood. . . . All I want to say to them is . . . why are you killing innocent people like us that have no concern with you?(46)
A teenage victim of a drone strike commented: America is 15,000 kilometers away from us; God knows what they want from us. We are not rich . . . . We dont have as much food as they do. God knows what they want from us.(47) Unable to find any other explanation for why US strikes have struck innocent people in their community, some Waziris believe that the US actively seeks to kill them simply for being Muslims, viewing the drone campaign as a part of a religious crusade against Islam.(48)
Recognizing the danger posed by a campaign that breeds such hostility, more than two dozen US congressmen penned a letter to President Obama in June 2012 that described drones as faceless ambassadors that cause civilian deaths, and are frequently the only direct contact with Americans that targeted communities have.(49)
Many of the journalists, NGO and humanitarian workers, medical professionals, and Pakistani governmental officials with whom we spoke expressed their belief that, on balance, drone strikes likely increase terrorism. Syed Akhunzada Chittan, for example, a parliamentarian from North Waziristan, expressed his conviction that for every militant killed, many more are born.(50) In another interview, a Pakistani professional told us that a professional school classmate had joined the Taliban after a drone strike killed a friend of his.(51) Noor Behram is a Waziri-based journalist who has spent years photographing and interviewing victims of drone strikes. Having personally witnessed the immediate aftermath of numerous strikes, he relates: When people are out there picking up body parts after a drone strike, it would be very easy to convince those people to fight against America.(52)
Numerous policy analysts, officials, and independent observers have come to similar conclusions. David Kilcullen, a former advisor to US General David Petraeus, has stated that, every one of these dead noncombatants represents an alienated family, a new desire for revenge, and more recruits for a militant movement that has grown exponentially even as drone strikes have increased.(53) Der Spiegel has also reported that in Pakistan militants profit in a gruesome way from the drone missions. After each attack in which innocent civilians die, they win over some of the relatives as supporterswith a few even volunteering for suicide attacks.(54) As a May 2012 New York Times article succinctly put it, (d)rones have replaced Guantánamo as the recruiting tool of choice for militants.(55) Pakistani Ambassador to the US Sherry Rehman told CNNs Christiane Amanpour in a recent interview that the drone program radicalizes foot soldiers, tribes, and entire villages in our region, and that (w)e honestly feel that there are better ways now of eliminating Al Qaeda.(56) It is also important to note that similar counter-productive effects have been noted in Yemen.(57)
While quantitative data is limited, one study, in June 2012 by the Middle East Policy Council, identified a correlation between drone strikes and terrorist attacks in the years 2004-2009. That study found it probable that drone strikes provide motivation for retaliation, and that there is a substantive relationship between the increasing number of drone strikes and the increasing number of retaliation attacks.(58) A July 2010 study by the New America Foundation revealed that almost six in ten residents of the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) now believe that suicide attacks are often or sometimes justified against the US military,(59) although a July 2012 journalistic assessment by Bergen and Rowland suggests that drone strikes may have contributed to reduced suicide attacks in Pakistan in 2010-2011.(60)
Indeed, US drone strikes have been explicitly referred to as a motive for a number of specific planned or implemented terrorist attacks. For instance, a suicide bomber who targeted a CIA compound in Khost, Afghanistan identified drones as his motivation, announcing that (t)his (suicide) attack will be the first of the revenge operations against the Americans and their drone teams outside the Pakistani borders.(61) Faisal Shahzad, who allegedly attempted to detonate a car bomb in Times Square, viewed his planned attack as retaliation for several US policies, including drone strikes.(62) In addition, Najibullah Zazi, an Afghan who allegedly plotted to attack New Yorks subway system was in part, motivated by drone strikes in (his) ancestral homeland().(63) Similarly, a group responsible for the bombing of a Pakistani police academy in early 2009 cited the collaboration of Pakistani authorities with the US drone campaign.(64) It is also clear that some US officials themselves consider that drone strikes may influence the likelihood of terrorist activity in the US. A June 2012 deposition suggests, at least, that the New York City Police Department has monitored conversations involving individuals from countries of concern(65) following and about drone strikes,(66) to find those people that were radicalized towards violence.(67)
Those we interviewed in Pakistan emphasized their belief that enmity toward the US stems largely from particular US rights-violating post-9/11 policies, and could be reversed if the US changed course. Many expressed hope for reconciliation with the US, for good relations with the American people, and aspirations for a peaceful future. A victim of the March 17, 2011 jirga strike, for example, stated: We dont have any revenge or anything else to take from America if they stop the drone attacks.(68) Many interviewees repeatedly implored our research team to ask the US government to stop or fundamentally change drone strike policies,(69) and instead assist their communities through, for example, investments in health and education infrastructure.(70)
http://www.livingunderdrones.org/report-strategy/Each time an errant bomb or a bomb accurately aimed but against the wrong target kills or hurts civilians, we risk setting out strategy back months, if not years. Despite the fact that the Taliban kill and maim far more than we do, civilian casualty incidents such as those weve recently seen in Afghanistan will hurt us more in the long run than any tactical success we may achieve against the enemy.(39)
It is clear from polling and our research teams interviews that drone strikes breed resentment and discontent toward the US, and there is evidence to suggest that the strikes have aided militant recruitment and motivated terrorist activity.
US drone strikes are extremely unpopular in Pakistan. A 2012 poll by the Pew Research Centers Global Attitude project found that only 17% of Pakistanis supported drone strikes. And remarkably, among those who professed to know a lot or a little about drones, 97% considered drone strikes bad policy.(40) As numerous analysts have noted, (i)f the price of the drone campaign that increasingly kills only low-level Taliban is alienating 180 million Pakistanisthat is too high a price to pay.(41)
The Waziris interviewed for this report almost uniformly reported having neutral or in some instances positive views of the US before the advent of the drone campaign. One 18-year-old, for example, admitted, (f)rankly speaking, before the drone attacks, I didnt know anything about a country called America. I didnt know where it was or its role in international affairs.(42) But the strikes now foster the development of strongly negative views toward the US. Another interviewee explained: Before the drone attacks, we didnt know (anything) about America. Now everybody has come to understand and know about America . . . . Almost all people hate America.(43) Noor Khan, whose father, Daud Khan, a respected community leader, was killed when a drone struck the March 17, 2011 jirga over which he presided, remarked that America on one hand claims that it wants to bring peace to the world and it wants to bring education. But look at them, what they are doing?(44) One man, who has lost relatives in drone strikes, expressed his deep-seated anger toward the US, declaring that we wont forget our blood, for two hundred, two thousand, five thousand yearswe will take our revenge for these drone attacks.(45) A Waziri who lost his younger brother in a strike stated that there would be revenge: Blood for blood. . . . All I want to say to them is . . . why are you killing innocent people like us that have no concern with you?(46)
A teenage victim of a drone strike commented: America is 15,000 kilometers away from us; God knows what they want from us. We are not rich . . . . We dont have as much food as they do. God knows what they want from us.(47) Unable to find any other explanation for why US strikes have struck innocent people in their community, some Waziris believe that the US actively seeks to kill them simply for being Muslims, viewing the drone campaign as a part of a religious crusade against Islam.(48)
Recognizing the danger posed by a campaign that breeds such hostility, more than two dozen US congressmen penned a letter to President Obama in June 2012 that described drones as faceless ambassadors that cause civilian deaths, and are frequently the only direct contact with Americans that targeted communities have.(49)
Many of the journalists, NGO and humanitarian workers, medical professionals, and Pakistani governmental officials with whom we spoke expressed their belief that, on balance, drone strikes likely increase terrorism. Syed Akhunzada Chittan, for example, a parliamentarian from North Waziristan, expressed his conviction that for every militant killed, many more are born.(50) In another interview, a Pakistani professional told us that a professional school classmate had joined the Taliban after a drone strike killed a friend of his.(51) Noor Behram is a Waziri-based journalist who has spent years photographing and interviewing victims of drone strikes. Having personally witnessed the immediate aftermath of numerous strikes, he relates: When people are out there picking up body parts after a drone strike, it would be very easy to convince those people to fight against America.(52)
Numerous policy analysts, officials, and independent observers have come to similar conclusions. David Kilcullen, a former advisor to US General David Petraeus, has stated that, every one of these dead noncombatants represents an alienated family, a new desire for revenge, and more recruits for a militant movement that has grown exponentially even as drone strikes have increased.(53) Der Spiegel has also reported that in Pakistan militants profit in a gruesome way from the drone missions. After each attack in which innocent civilians die, they win over some of the relatives as supporterswith a few even volunteering for suicide attacks.(54) As a May 2012 New York Times article succinctly put it, (d)rones have replaced Guantánamo as the recruiting tool of choice for militants.(55) Pakistani Ambassador to the US Sherry Rehman told CNNs Christiane Amanpour in a recent interview that the drone program radicalizes foot soldiers, tribes, and entire villages in our region, and that (w)e honestly feel that there are better ways now of eliminating Al Qaeda.(56) It is also important to note that similar counter-productive effects have been noted in Yemen.(57)
While quantitative data is limited, one study, in June 2012 by the Middle East Policy Council, identified a correlation between drone strikes and terrorist attacks in the years 2004-2009. That study found it probable that drone strikes provide motivation for retaliation, and that there is a substantive relationship between the increasing number of drone strikes and the increasing number of retaliation attacks.(58) A July 2010 study by the New America Foundation revealed that almost six in ten residents of the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) now believe that suicide attacks are often or sometimes justified against the US military,(59) although a July 2012 journalistic assessment by Bergen and Rowland suggests that drone strikes may have contributed to reduced suicide attacks in Pakistan in 2010-2011.(60)
Indeed, US drone strikes have been explicitly referred to as a motive for a number of specific planned or implemented terrorist attacks. For instance, a suicide bomber who targeted a CIA compound in Khost, Afghanistan identified drones as his motivation, announcing that (t)his (suicide) attack will be the first of the revenge operations against the Americans and their drone teams outside the Pakistani borders.(61) Faisal Shahzad, who allegedly attempted to detonate a car bomb in Times Square, viewed his planned attack as retaliation for several US policies, including drone strikes.(62) In addition, Najibullah Zazi, an Afghan who allegedly plotted to attack New Yorks subway system was in part, motivated by drone strikes in (his) ancestral homeland().(63) Similarly, a group responsible for the bombing of a Pakistani police academy in early 2009 cited the collaboration of Pakistani authorities with the US drone campaign.(64) It is also clear that some US officials themselves consider that drone strikes may influence the likelihood of terrorist activity in the US. A June 2012 deposition suggests, at least, that the New York City Police Department has monitored conversations involving individuals from countries of concern(65) following and about drone strikes,(66) to find those people that were radicalized towards violence.(67)
Those we interviewed in Pakistan emphasized their belief that enmity toward the US stems largely from particular US rights-violating post-9/11 policies, and could be reversed if the US changed course. Many expressed hope for reconciliation with the US, for good relations with the American people, and aspirations for a peaceful future. A victim of the March 17, 2011 jirga strike, for example, stated: We dont have any revenge or anything else to take from America if they stop the drone attacks.(68) Many interviewees repeatedly implored our research team to ask the US government to stop or fundamentally change drone strike policies,(69) and instead assist their communities through, for example, investments in health and education infrastructure.(70)
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"Proves why Chomsky is irrelevant" was, until recently, the mantra of rightwingers like Limbaugh.
MiddleFingerMom
Jun 2013
#151
They're not rightwingers. They're just vehemently opposed to ANY criticism of "our side'...
MiddleFingerMom
Jun 2013
#160
I don't know if DU as a website has moved sharply to the right, I think it's a small and...
MiddleFingerMom
Jun 2013
#163
He supports the NSA "industry" and they have a vested interest (their jobs) in terrorism.
xtraxritical
Jun 2013
#53
You are mixing up concepts. For instance actions (and your interpretation thereof) & motive
stevenleser
Jun 2013
#70
No, it's not. Chomsky's entire article is about imputing motive. And even if for a moment I
stevenleser
Jun 2013
#109
"Chomsky's entire article" lolz,. there is no article, this post links to a video interview.
Civilization2
Jun 2013
#141
Well, you defended an article that imputes motive. Are you now saying you disagree with that?
stevenleser
Jun 2013
#112
Chomsky's title and entire article imputes motive to Obama. Again do you disagree with Chomsky
stevenleser
Jun 2013
#119
Do you understand what the title of Chomsky's article is? It says Obama is dedicated to...
stevenleser
Jun 2013
#124
Drones murdering folks tends to create enemies from the surviving family and friends.
Civilization2
Jun 2013
#140
if he was irrelevant, you wouldn't bother to discount this. Chomsky's source are all mainstream...
yurbud
Jun 2013
#131
Well said, All of America's terror activity kills random unlucky victims as well as intended targets
Civilization2
Jun 2013
#146
the "signature strike" ones stretched the definition of "suspected" to breaking
yurbud
Jun 2013
#170
Lol, and here we go again. Btw, are there any Progressive authors of his stature that are still okay
sabrina 1
Jun 2013
#195
Chomsky considered bin Laden's killing to be a "political assassination" and declared Obama
geek tragedy
Jun 2013
#2
By that reasoning, Chapo Guzman will be a political prisoner if they catch him nt
geek tragedy
Jun 2013
#14
The Pakistanis saw it as a violation of their sovereignty that we went in without
karynnj
Jun 2013
#35
We are in armed conflict with AQ. The only reason there was no formal declaration
geek tragedy
Jun 2013
#187
The specific operation to kill bin laden didn't involve killing all of those innocent children nt
geek tragedy
Jun 2013
#211
IOW, war is war. I don'T think the Germans enjoyed getting bombed from my dad's
Amonester
Jun 2013
#182
Imagine believing that a communications major and being an ex-homecoming queen
Generic Other
Jun 2013
#162
I love Chomsky...but Obama is dedicated to Obama. And he is doing what he thinks America wants.
McCamy Taylor
Jun 2013
#15
I think Chomsky thinks being shamed from the left will have more effect on a Democrat than it would
McCamy Taylor
Jun 2013
#23
K&R It would be nice to watch the video, but GRITtv wants to sell it's viewers too many times.
Egalitarian Thug
Jun 2013
#24
An endless war on TERROR! needs a steady stream of terrorists. Gotta float that budget! $$$
Fire Walk With Me
Jun 2013
#37
There are three things which could help them accept it and work toward its end...
Fire Walk With Me
Jun 2013
#59
No he didn't. And neither do the people whose human rights the US violates everyday
Catherina
Jun 2013
#64
Obviously, we need to hear much more detail from ALL of the people, ordinary people, in these
patrice
Jun 2013
#66
Dear Dr. Chomsky, is the killing okay as long as it is freelance? & Where are the weapons from??? nt
patrice
Jun 2013
#68
Maybe Mr. Putin can tell us where the ASSAULT WEAPOONS are from, or NOT from, as the case may be.nt
patrice
Jun 2013
#77
People, we MUST get over thinking every word out of the mouth of someone we like is 100%
patrice
Jun 2013
#76
Talk to me when people here aren't saying Obama might have had Hastings MURDERED.
DevonRex
Jun 2013
#167
See post #82 for "dedicated to increasing terrorism," and for that matter, our ongoing support
yurbud
Jun 2013
#171
Just like Obama was the only thing standing between the banks and the people w pitchforks
Catherina
Jun 2013
#115
If Obama were a true progressive, he would never have permitted the drones programme.
sibelian
Jun 2013
#133
Chomsky has written extensively on solutions that would actually work in the real world:
cpwm17
Jun 2013
#218
Since Chomsky is a linguistics professor at MIT, it's hard to suggest he didn't know and didn't mean
stevenleser
Jun 2013
#168
LOL. Neither Chomsky nor anyone who defends this should be taken seriously.
stevenleser
Jun 2013
#175
Just like Bush's policies, Obama's policies are also creating more terrorists
Marrah_G
Jun 2013
#217
you said there is no evidence that Obama's polices are increasing threat of terrorism.
limpyhobbler
Jun 2013
#197
None of the 3 articles you posted support that claim with anything close to quantifiable evidence.
ucrdem
Jun 2013
#201
It's easy to dismiss evidence even when presented with it if your mind is already made up.
limpyhobbler
Jun 2013
#202
Major Mike's "evidence" points to fear and dislike of drones but not to terrorist recruitment.
ucrdem
Jun 2013
#204
Chomsky wants to mislead us so he can transfer Bush's crimes to the black guy.
limpyhobbler
Jun 2013
#221