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BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)

22. I can not ask any person to lay down their life

Sun Jun 23, 2013, 01:05 AM

Jun 2013

I could not do it, nor could I suspect all the authoritarians who are calling for Snowden's head could do it either. It's like people who went to hangings and yelled "Kill him!" It's blood lust beyond belief.

You are saying he should pay the ultimate price and submit to being jailed for a very long time, like Bradley Manning most likely will, who has also suffered torture and solitary confinement. Yet at the same time you say this is old news, it's not whistleblowing, etc. His allegations are completely false. Which one is it?

You are asking for a man to give up everything for embarrassing the NSA and the Administration. He must face the wrath of the most powerful government on the planet to satisfy you?

So I ask you, "Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?"

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Let's be Clear [View all] sheshe2 Jun 2013 OP

I think there is a difference between Snowden and the 'real' civil rights heroes Tx4obama Jun 2013 #1

I could not agree with you more Tx! sheshe2 Jun 2013 #13

What's your verdict on Daniel Ellsberg?- nt HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #46

Did he run off to China? Ever hear of the Pentagon Papers Trial? KittyWampus Jun 2013 #120

I take it from the tone and substance of your questions that you don't HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #128

You got that right madokie Jun 2013 #99

Snowden is a punk ass criminal?...wow backwoodsbob Jun 2013 #125

Hero schmero. sibelian Jun 2013 #147

Kick and rec. madamesilverspurs Jun 2013 #2

And what happened to Dr. King? MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #3

Martin Luther King is a Hero! sheshe2 Jun 2013 #15

why is it the only people comparing Snowden to MLK Union Scribe Jun 2013 #42

They're not the only ones. Major Hogwash Jun 2013 #62

No kidding. Marr Jun 2013 #71

Actually, no. thucythucy Jun 2013 #107

Eddie wouldn't be in danger for his life treestar Jun 2013 #133

Snowden doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of living as a free man. Major Hogwash Jun 2013 #4

You have no idea what "he envisioned himself". You just want to get a posse and lynch him rhett o rick Jun 2013 #32

The FBI uses profilers to determine a person's state of mind. Major Hogwash Jun 2013 #35

K&R! nt sheshe2 Jun 2013 #40

"Tortured logic"?? One sides traitor is the other sides patriot. Seems pretty rhett o rick Jun 2013 #100

the fact that the FBI uses profilers does not make you a expert on anything Monkie Jun 2013 #105

The FBI is a slobbering pile of twits. "Profiles" are for people who read horoscopes. sibelian Jun 2013 #148

"...he dared to upset your comfortable denial bubble." Exactly! scarletwoman Jun 2013 #63

Not hardly. Major Hogwash Jun 2013 #66

Your post just cracked me up....you truly don't see the hypocricy, do you. Sheepshank Jun 2013 #109

And those living in denial bubbles trying to discourage others from discussing rhett o rick Jun 2013 #111

Your martyr syndrome is even funnier Sheepshank Jun 2013 #113

My "martyr syndrome"?? Now this is about me? Apparently anything to defect from the discussion. nm rhett o rick Jun 2013 #130

IMHO sheshe2 Jun 2013 #118

What I actually said was that some here are feverishly trying to shut down the discussion rhett o rick Jun 2013 #132

"You just want to get a posse and lynch him" sheshe2 Jun 2013 #122

No, open minded people dont see things in black and white. rhett o rick Jun 2013 #129

No, I would like to see him go to trial treestar Jun 2013 #135

Of course you are a real advocate of laws and justice. But it's ok if Clapper, a Republican lies to rhett o rick Jun 2013 #140

You advocate something other than laws and justice? treestar Jun 2013 #141

I support laws and justice. But the 99% should be treated the same as the 1%. rhett o rick Jun 2013 #142

Should Cheney get due process if accused? treestar Jun 2013 #143

And when your disobedience stands up against agencies like CIA, FBI, etc. alp227 Jun 2013 #54

All my GAWDS sakes Iliyah Jun 2013 #60

It's the full moon. Major Hogwash Jun 2013 #64

And he ought to be in jail to make his point treestar Jun 2013 #134

Lets be clear. The issue is the future of human rights in western democracies. delrem Jun 2013 #5

LOL frazzled Jun 2013 #7

You think this is a laughing matter? delrem Jun 2013 #9

Yeah, and I think you're about a dozen years late ... frazzled Jun 2013 #12

The program itself is an abuse of privacy. delrem Jun 2013 #14

Supreme Court and other courts have ruled meta-data isn't protected by the 4th amendment. n/t Tx4obama Jun 2013 #17

"meta-data" wasn't even a concept in those times. delrem Jun 2013 #19

Link Please! sheshe2 Jun 2013 #33

Here's one. But I doubt that you're interested. delrem Jun 2013 #69

Supreme court has also declared corporations people. progressoid Jun 2013 #108

You're against surveillance completely? treestar Jun 2013 #136

Do you deny that people have been "disappeared"? delrem Jun 2013 #16

Oh christ. Not that shit again. The 16 yr old was not the target of the drone. Tx4obama Jun 2013 #18

Ah, the "it was a coincidence" argument. delrem Jun 2013 #20

Well, we could send the US Army and the US Air Force, like Bush/Cheney did. Now there's a good idea. Hekate Jun 2013 #37

so why the fuck does he always do the opposite????? delrem Jun 2013 #39

Why does he do the opposite of what? Hekate Jun 2013 #51

ah, you joke. very funny. haha delrem Jun 2013 #52

No, you genuinely did not make sense Hekate Jun 2013 #65

Damned near his entire bloody campaign platform. TheMadMonk Jun 2013 #98

How about not invading countries Union Scribe Jun 2013 #43

Why not target known suicide attackers before they blow themselves up here? Hekate Jun 2013 #61

A "known suicide attacker" would already be dead. Union Scribe Jun 2013 #83

Suppose you are the leader of a nation, perhaps this one. What. Would. You. Do? Hekate Jun 2013 #85

So many things. Union Scribe Jun 2013 #92

I was half an hour into writing you a nice response when my browser quit Hekate Jun 2013 #97

So you support that idea there should be no attempt whatsoever to head off terrorists attacks here treestar Jun 2013 #137

It's the end of the world as we know it!... SidDithers Jun 2013 #103

Can dish it out but can't take it frazzled Jun 2013 #6

"a melodrama about how your life is in danger" Union Scribe Jun 2013 #11

I feel the same as you! LeftInTX Jun 2013 #79

And why do you think he did it? dawg Jun 2013 #8

I don't know what he thought Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #41

If Naomi is right, then then things are even worse than any of us think. dawg Jun 2013 #104

Yeah, I'm not exactly following her police state theory Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #121

Why must we be told to assume that Snowden had a noble cause? Sheepshank Jun 2013 #110

The point is that the guy obviously really believed in something ... dawg Jun 2013 #112

That is not a point...it is an assumption based on the paradign you have created for yourself. Sheepshank Jun 2013 #114

Yes, we do. It is a prima facie case. dawg Jun 2013 #115

No...you are wrong. Prima Facie points to a national traitor. But that is under discussion, no? Sheepshank Jun 2013 #117

We're talking about two different things. dawg Jun 2013 #119

"The only point I'm trying to get you to understand is that Snowden, in his own mind,*had* a cause." Sheepshank Jun 2013 #123

So you admit he had a cause. One that he was willing to risk everything for? dawg Jun 2013 #124

sure...I already gave you a list of possible causes? I don't understand what you are trying to imply Sheepshank Jun 2013 #127

Snowden took information and gave it to the media, not "a foreign government." Comrade Grumpy Jun 2013 #139

Good point treestar Jun 2013 #138

Trying hard still to personalize nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #10

Actually sheshe2 Jun 2013 #21

We're certainly not in Kansas anymore. Major Hogwash Jun 2013 #34

And a few Americans who are free Iliyah Jun 2013 #38

Let me get this straight. Union Scribe Jun 2013 #45

Yes, I do. Iliyah Jun 2013 #56

Facts is that this stopped being about Snowden a while ago nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #102

I can not ask any person to lay down their life BrotherIvan Jun 2013 #22

Well said. NT hueymahl Jun 2013 #23

No, they don't. The majority of Americans have lost, if they ever had, any sense Egalitarian Thug Jun 2013 #29

1 in 5 American children experience at least one instance HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #57

I have not asked anyone to lay down their life sheshe2 Jun 2013 #30

+1 on that sheshe2 Lady Freedom Returns Jun 2013 #36

Thank you sheshe2 Jun 2013 #53

+2 sheshe Hekate Jun 2013 #68

Ok, if you like facts, here's some for you BrotherIvan Jun 2013 #145

Snowden knew when he STOLE government records/property that he was committing felonies Tx4obama Jun 2013 #74

+1 Lady Freedom Returns Jun 2013 #80

Ironic you mentioned MLK... Taft_Bathtub Jun 2013 #24

+1 liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #28

+ Infinity! - nt HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #59

And did he? Iliyah Jun 2013 #67

MLK clearly isn't Snowden Taft_Bathtub Jun 2013 #86

"Tortured"? Now you're just making a strong case for.. you don't Cha Jun 2013 #90

The US tortures American Citizens Taft_Bathtub Jun 2013 #93

Could you please give me that link! sheshe2 Jun 2013 #70

Here you go, it's pretty mean what they wrote to him Taft_Bathtub Jun 2013 #81

Could you please give me that link! sheshe2 Jun 2013 #76

The 'same government' ??? NO. The majority of those folks are either retired or DEAD Tx4obama Jun 2013 #77

The US still does this sort of stuff Taft_Bathtub Jun 2013 #82

Would that include slaves and draft resistors who fled to Canada? Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #25

I do believe sheshe2 Jun 2013 #84

OTOH, he also didn't cash in on it as he certainly could have. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jun 2013 #26

this is not about Snowden or even Obama. This is about the NSA and the law that allows them liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #27

Yet the loudest posters here make it ALL about Snowden and about Obama. Hekate Jun 2013 #48

Agree LeftInTX Jun 2013 #87

I don't understand how you fantasy unfolds in reality. TheKentuckian Jun 2013 #144

Snowden seems to be making it about himself LeftInTX Jun 2013 #89

Thanks! Iliyah Jun 2013 #31

We get it already. Messenger shot, message ignored. Coccydynia Jun 2013 #44

A bit over the top, even for a pain in the butt Hekate Jun 2013 #73

Maybe. Coccydynia Jun 2013 #91

Let's be clear. People who spy on us and try to keep that from us are criminals. mhatrw Jun 2013 #47

DU rec! ucrdem Jun 2013 #49

Oh he knew there were consequences, and he knew they were inevitable Taverner Jun 2013 #50

The Dalai Lama avoided the consequences of his "law breaking" and fled. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #55

Apples. Cornish pasty. Hekate Jun 2013 #72

This is based on a talking point.... Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2013 #58

+10 avaistheone1 Jun 2013 #88

Very good analysis, from smartypants, she.. Cha Jun 2013 #75

"comfortable as possible without paying any price. Isn't that what libertarians do?" great white snark Jun 2013 #106

Hey great white snark! Cha Jun 2013 #146

I did not vote for Edward Snowden or his agenda!!!!!!!!! LeftInTX Jun 2013 #78

Breaking: Edward Snowden 'leaves Hong Kong on Moscow flight' Tx4obama Jun 2013 #94

Makes since if he could not get a deal with the Chines for whatever he's stolen. n/t Lady Freedom Returns Jun 2013 #95

Has he claimed what he did was an act of civil disobedience? cali Jun 2013 #96

My guess from the way some of the posters and the OP pontificates is they would have us believe.... nolabels Jun 2013 #101

Look what they did to Manning. JoeyT Jun 2013 #116

No. wtmusic Jun 2013 #126

Not to mention that there's nothing inherently wrong with having a security apparatus treestar Jun 2013 #131

Thanks, I use character assassination threads such as these... Corruption Inc Jun 2013 #149