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In reply to the discussion: The leak was an attempt to bolster the libertarian brand. [View all]
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)211. I liked Lindsay too. But there was no way he could have done well against Nixon in 1972.
By that time his popularity had fallen apart in New York City. By that time he was no longer a popular figure nationally. As good of man and a mayor as he was - by 1972 he was portrayed by just about he entire media as an out-of-touch New York City elitist which would been just as much a liability as McGovern's hippie leader image - a World War II hero and a former small town Methodist minister was turned into a counterculture icon. There is no reason to believe Nixon would not have been equally successful against the by then very unpopular Lindsay.
Of course McGovern was not an absolute pacifist - no one running for Commander and Chief is electable if they were. But he did challenge bipartisan Cold War assumptions on matters beyond only Vietnam and he did so more than any other major party post World War II nominee. I don't believe the system is going to support any candidate who challenges bipartisan foreign policy assumptions. If Rand Paul continues to challenge bipartisan foreign policy assumptions - there is no way the Republican establishment will back him - even if he does pull off the nomination - which would be highly unlikely. If Rand Paul stays in that mode and does launch a successful insurgency campaign it will rip apart the Republican Party from inside.
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There is absolutely ZERO evidence that Rand Paul is involved in the NSA or any other leaks.
Maedhros
Jun 2013
#125
Because we all know anyone who disagrees with Obama must certainly be a Rand Paul fan
davidn3600
Jun 2013
#8
there is nothing to criticize the government for. These are Paulites 100%.
graham4anything
Jun 2013
#178
that meme is a faux straw man. Boston was two thrill killer 15 minute fame seekers AND NOT
graham4anything
Jun 2013
#196
It is REASONABLE and 100% legal. And LOL we are conversing freely right all over the world
graham4anything
Jun 2013
#199
I don't know any Rand Paul fans here. Perhaps they exist & I just haven't come across them.
scarletwoman
Jun 2013
#16
"Agreeing" with Snowden is not the point, however much you might like it to be.
scarletwoman
Jun 2013
#78
"Because I put it there?" Well, yeah, obviously. Thing is, I sort of assumed you put it there
scarletwoman
Jun 2013
#94
You're going to get another third grade tactic in response. As if we didnt know that when you said
stevenleser
Jun 2013
#113
The thing is, I simply don't give a rip if Rand Paul is "exploiting" the leak. It's just so totally
scarletwoman
Jun 2013
#121
Conspiracy theory? Snowden donated $500 to Ron Paul's Presidential campaign in 2012 and what
stevenleser
Jun 2013
#135
Appeals to authority, bandwagon and guilt by association are all logical fallacies. This issue is a
stevenleser
Jun 2013
#95
That's not what I see her as saying. She's pointing out the truth -- that Rand Paul
pnwmom
Jun 2013
#102
You have your teams mixed up. It's not Libertarians vs. Dems, it's Surveillance State vs.
scarletwoman
Jun 2013
#111
How did I "hijack" this thread? I wrote a response, you responded to my response, I responded
scarletwoman
Jun 2013
#126
So what? Why aren't Dem politicians "luring" people in with a strong stance on Civil Liberties?
scarletwoman
Jun 2013
#148
I don't think about Rand Paul at all. I think the Repugs aka Libertarians are idiots.
scarletwoman
Jun 2013
#158
Gawd, this is worse than silly! Who gives a shit about the Libertarians?
Comrade Grumpy
Jun 2013
#151
You act as if Prosense wrote the article. Lowry wrote it, Prosense is letting us know about it.
stevenleser
Jun 2013
#92
Given that Snowden donated $500 to Ron Paul's 2012 Presidential run plus Lowry's article it's not a
stevenleser
Jun 2013
#101
Lowry's article just mentions the NSA as one more thing Paul is using
muriel_volestrangler
Jun 2013
#162
No? Then it's about the availability of assault weapons in secret markets that supply
patrice
Jun 2013
#223
k, as long as we agree that propaganda is propaganda, no matter what label it's wearing. nt
patrice
Jun 2013
#224
freshwest all the reasons is reason for Rand Paul not be in office anywhere.
Thinkingabout
Jun 2013
#64
I think some of the oldest money is NOT blind & all of this is about preparing their "life" raft,
patrice
Jun 2013
#226
I think that's always been the case. It explains their positions on the environment in all ways.
freshwest
Jun 2013
#255
Snowden was wrong to get those Jim Crow laws passed all those years before he was born.
dawg
Jun 2013
#31
I am entirely comfortable with the idea of comparing who looks more stupid than whom.
Bonobo
Jun 2013
#33
You dispute that Lowry is a good source for how the right wing thinks on an issue? nt
stevenleser
Jun 2013
#97
The OP is quoting NRO so I thought I would give you Bush Torture Memo Author and
neverforget
Jun 2013
#106
The OP is quoting NRO on their interpretation of a possible right wing motive of Snowden.
stevenleser
Jun 2013
#108
The OP quotes right wingers and I link to a right winger who agrees and I'm threadjacking?
neverforget
Jun 2013
#110
As I said above in the thread with someone else, third grade tactics like these are not convincing
stevenleser
Jun 2013
#114
I'll tell you what. Agree that this issue falls across party lines and makes for strange bed fellows
neverforget
Jun 2013
#118
for the first time ever I actually looked up the Green Party website. I love their platform
liberal_at_heart
Jun 2013
#40
Just keep asking them how many people should die for what THEY call "Liberty", but which could
patrice
Jun 2013
#222
Those on the left libertarian train of thought, think they are oppressed by government.
freshwest
Jun 2013
#237
I care, and always have as far back as I can remember, very passionately about freedom. & In order
patrice
Jun 2013
#240
There is no Left, because there is no Left agenda and the reason there is no Left agenda is
patrice
Jun 2013
#225
Okay Th1onein, REALLY, why is it that all of the things I/you/we don't know about this don't matter?
patrice
Jun 2013
#218
Your objection is that the Republicans are too intelligent and swift to be caught flatfooted by what
stevenleser
Jun 2013
#107
Libertarian brand with a "cause". The brand would not bring in the type of support needed to win.
Thinkingabout
Jun 2013
#77
Rachel Maddow had an interview with Rand Paul about the exclusion of coloreds from businesses
Major Hogwash
Jun 2013
#103
I'm still wondering why he wasn't laughed off the stage at Simmons College.
Tarheel_Dem
Jun 2013
#147
I have very personally known Libertarians who say precisely that. & Another thing they say is:
patrice
Jun 2013
#233
I think this actually made those of us that bothered to read it dumber.
Egalitarian Thug
Jun 2013
#155
Then why is Obama all of the sudden willing to discuss 'surveillance transparency'???
Logical
Jun 2013
#166
Snowden is a Pauliac all the way. So much so that he would throw his life away for his belief.
MjolnirTime
Jun 2013
#177
We really should stop this fighting, otherwise we'll miss the fireworks! nt
galileoreloaded
Jun 2013
#181
Yep! & All of those whom he opposes MUST be smeared. Now ... WHY is that? Hmmm????nt
patrice
Jun 2013
#221
a libertarian/Rand Paul insurgency within the GOP will rip the Republican Party completely apart
Douglas Carpenter
Jun 2013
#190
actually Rand Paul is part of Jeb Bush's team and a faithful BushPaulfamilyinc member.
graham4anything
Jun 2013
#202
well that we just don't know. How much of a careerist versus how much of an ideologue is Rand Paul?
Douglas Carpenter
Jun 2013
#203
His ideology was spelled out in his literature, and he is that. A JBS George Wallace/David Duke
graham4anything
Jun 2013
#204
if he supports the traditional libertarian isolationism -he will be anathema to the Republican Party
Douglas Carpenter
Jun 2013
#205
I am a John V. Lindsay LBJ liberal. JVL actually got more votes in the few primaries he ran in, than
graham4anything
Jun 2013
#206
John' linday's strongest showing was 5th place in the Florida primary - he never scored above the
Douglas Carpenter
Jun 2013
#208
I didn't say anything of that sort. I said in the FEW primaries he was in, he got more total votes
graham4anything
Jun 2013
#209
I liked Lindsay too. But there was no way he could have done well against Nixon in 1972.
Douglas Carpenter
Jun 2013
#211
again, I think Jeb would use him as VP. I didn't say Rand would win the nomination, I think Jeb will
graham4anything
Jun 2013
#212
Photo proof here. Anyone who wants to check his associations and statements with these guys, enjoy:
freshwest
Jun 2013
#258
No! but don't you think we should know everything there is to know about WHO he was trying to warn?
patrice
Jun 2013
#228
Some people's minds are easily boggled. Now I understand your sense of humor. And I'll work on mine.
freshwest
Jun 2013
#246
So do you get paid by the post? Or by each positive reference to a public official?
Gravitycollapse
Jun 2013
#250
I can't think of a single other person on this board who is a bigger party shill than you.
Gravitycollapse
Jun 2013
#253
Because the Libertarians don't have a website as cool as Skinner's and are trying to steal this one?
freshwest
Jun 2013
#247
Congratulations. That's lower than the bottom of the pit beneath the DU troll shithouse.
Zorra
Jun 2013
#207
That's one of my highest order hypotheses, but there are questions about how stochastic
patrice
Jun 2013
#213
... because Plausible Deniability is one of the highest marketable commodities there is & evoking it
patrice
Jun 2013
#214
That COULD be merely a matter of labeling. "A 'rose' by any other name would smell as sweet."nt
patrice
Jun 2013
#220
K&R for a useful line of inquiry, ProSense! But then you need to know that it is my opinion that,
patrice
Jun 2013
#230
If the focus was just the spying on Americans, I would say no, but that it has expanded to involve
still_one
Jun 2013
#252
So are you saying say Democrats have to be okay with spying on non-citizens?
Gravitycollapse
Jun 2013
#256