General Discussion

Cleita

(75,480 posts)

26. My husband, a naturalized American and very patriotic one as most immigrants

Sun Jun 23, 2013, 02:23 PM

Jun 2013

who take the oath are, was no fool though where this was concerned. He was fond of saying that the Americans were defeated by a bunch of farmers with the equivalent of shovels and pitchforks against our formidable military because they had the passion of patriotism in defending their country from invaders. We, on the other hand, were very unenthusiastic about participating in this war and did so grudgingly regardless of how much our war hawks pushed it. We were doomed to fail just as we have in Iraq and Afghanistan. It seems we are getting ready to hand Afgh. back to the Taliban, the outfit we went to war to defeat to begin with and give arms to the Syrian rebels, many of who are Al Queda, another faction we went to war with. Of course we all know that Iraq was a raid for oil and a vendetta Bush, Jr. held against Saddam.

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The Snowden Saga has revealed something else [View all] nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 OP

"The fall of the American Empire is upon us" ProSense Jun 2013 #1

Laugh at your own peril... Cooley Hurd Jun 2013 #2

And they are gloating about it! treestar Jun 2013 #5

It sure does sound like they are Control-Z Jun 2013 #10

Money spent exerting control elsewhere Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #27

There's an element among the far-left fringe and libertarian left... SidDithers Jun 2013 #42

You call it delusional Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #46

+1 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #88

Not it's the rise of a liberal utopia that is foreseen. sibelian Jun 2013 #103

It'll be a real utopia, all right...one where, if you don't speak Chinese, you ain't shit! MADem Jun 2013 #109

Oh. You're in favor of Imperialism? Cooley Hurd Jun 2013 #14

what imperialism? treestar Jun 2013 #18

Iraq. Afghanistan, Several S. American countries. Cooley Hurd Jun 2013 #33

mexico BOG PERSON Jun 2013 #35

My bad. Absolute(ly) Mexico, as well. Cooley Hurd Jun 2013 #36

Not the same thing treestar Jun 2013 #37

Are we? Cooley Hurd Jun 2013 #39

I'm against that but at least can see it as a war treestar Jun 2013 #77

I don't see the Obama Admin as "imperialistic" by nature. At all. Cooley Hurd Jun 2013 #81

I think that was the original plan BobbyBoring Jun 2013 #87

horried @ whitewashing of the crimes of british imperialism BOG PERSON Jun 2013 #76

That's ridiculous treestar Jun 2013 #78

did you even read what you posted? BOG PERSON Jun 2013 #80

You should never have gone into Iraq and Afghanistan in the first place... sibelian Jun 2013 #104

Countries the US has colonized. Melinda Jun 2013 #71

So this country is an empire because it was built up into a country? treestar Jun 2013 #73

This land was colonized, period. Each of the examples I gave you were colonialized by the US Melinda Jun 2013 #86

Weird, huh? They go from Marr Jun 2013 #119

That is mystifying, isn't it? Whisp Jun 2013 #22

many romans welcomed the barbarians as liberators n/t BOG PERSON Jun 2013 #34

the whole barbarian label is just a myth! Monkie Jun 2013 #115

If it is true, then I am happy about it Scootaloo Jun 2013 #56

I want my nation back too undergroundpanther Jun 2013 #108

The Empire is failing as all empires do, not just Rome. Cleita Jun 2013 #9

Empires fail because they're created for a primary reason: Cooley Hurd Jun 2013 #20

Well, we've been doing that for a long time. Cleita Jun 2013 #24

Now that's a huge pile of stupid. All Empires fail because they go bankrupt paying for expansions. KittyWampus Jun 2013 #30

Not all... Cooley Hurd Jun 2013 #31

"That argument is stupid" is not a personal attack. (nt) Posteritatis Jun 2013 #92

You quoted something that was not a quote. Cooley Hurd Jun 2013 #94

Close enough. Get off the cross, someone else needs the lumber. (nt) Posteritatis Jun 2013 #96

"Get off the cross..." Cooley Hurd Jun 2013 #98

Empire's don't fall for singular reasons. sibelian Jun 2013 #105

I agree American imperialism Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #3

It is becoming way obvoous nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #6

Kicked and recommended! Th1onein Jun 2013 #4

+1! And all those countries have changed their encryption keys and rerouted communications Catherina Jun 2013 #7

That is what Keith Alexander was complaining about nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #8

It also reveals that they fear alsame Jun 2013 #11

Like all other declining Empires nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #17

Lay it all on NSA's doorstep. Downwinder Jun 2013 #12

Ingrates! After all we've done to...er...for them! Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #13

As I said in another thread, a sclerotic military/industrial empire, unable to truly respond villager Jun 2013 #15

We may be better off if it happens. Cleita Jun 2013 #16

China is the rising power nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #21

If an alien invasion hit the news agent46 Jun 2013 #65

Well my view is a tad different. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #67

Unlikely - the timing is all wrong agent46 Jun 2013 #107

Aside from the North Sea oil & financial services boom, the last Century has been hell for the Brits FarCenter Jun 2013 #32

They have done better from a social point of view. They have national health care Cleita Jun 2013 #38

The reason that we were so prosperous between 1945 and 1975 was we could exploit everyone else FarCenter Jun 2013 #47

Whatever you want to call it. It was pretty middle class to all other countries looking in on us Cleita Jun 2013 #54

The US middle class was well into the global upper class FarCenter Jun 2013 #57

They were. Even a kid I knew from Mexico, back then, sixteen years old, told me Cleita Jun 2013 #60

The old Soviet Union only took 2 years to trade Gary Francis Powers WestStar Jun 2013 #19

And the Gary Powers saga is a perfect example nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #23

My husband, a naturalized American and very patriotic one as most immigrants Cleita Jun 2013 #26

The American Empire is approximately where the British Empire was in 1895 FarCenter Jun 2013 #25

I think it is more like 1940 nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #28

I don't think that will happen. The poor states in this country depend on the more Cleita Jun 2013 #40

1940 was 2 years into WW II? WW II was just the tail end of the 1914-1949 global war. FarCenter Jun 2013 #43

And I see this as a roman curve nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #45

This message was self-deleted by its author truebluegreen Jun 2013 #82

We've given other nations the ammunition to call us a rogue state. DirkGently Jun 2013 #29

All the abuses you mention is because our governing bodies have stopped Cleita Jun 2013 #41

"I'm not going with 'Nazi'. But corruption occurs by degrees. DirkGently Jun 2013 #44

Fine. Ignore history then. You know that the Weimar Republic was never overthrown Cleita Jun 2013 #49

Not ignoring history. People wig out when Nazis are brought DirkGently Jun 2013 #52

That's because those who are following in their footsteps want people not to discuss it. Cleita Jun 2013 #63

It's idiotic to compare everything to the most extreme. DirkGently Jun 2013 #68

History is history. You cannot deny it. It's idiotic to ignore abuses of the past. Cleita Jun 2013 #74

Don't need your help with "history," thanks. DirkGently Jun 2013 #75

Totally agree with Cleita. The parallels are too similar for their comfort level, especially GoneFishin Jun 2013 #110

In 1935 the Nazis were not there yet either nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #64

Precisely. The point is to notice your frog DirkGently Jun 2013 #70

Yes, but if I wait until my frog is completely cooked then at least I have the piece of mind GoneFishin Jun 2013 #112

The US' current structure pretty much goes back to the Civil War FarCenter Jun 2013 #53

So maybe we should. Cleita Jun 2013 #55

Weimar Republic under the Nazis rounded up political opponents en masse One of the 99 Jun 2013 #114

Yes. You make a person illegal or an action illegal, then you can round them up Cleita Jun 2013 #116

No the round ups of political opponents started after the Reichstag fire One of the 99 Jun 2013 #117

McConnell and Paul are communists? Your historical equivalencies are rather strange. Cleita Jun 2013 #118

That's because they are based on the facts. One of the 99 Jun 2013 #122

this should be an OP FirstLight Jun 2013 #83

Watch what you say because the US The Second Stone Jun 2013 #48

They have been spying on us since the cold war. I found out I have an FBI file on me Cleita Jun 2013 #50

I know, and as a reporter I am doubly an enemy of the state. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #51

Snowden signed papers and took oaths that he would not compromise information. He violated that, still_one Jun 2013 #58

The US was not an empire in 1865 nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #59

If things are so terrible here, why don't you involve yourself with candidates that support your still_one Jun 2013 #66

I thought I did, I even voted twice or him and gave money. (Never again, getting taken by a DC pol) nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #69

If only the judges, legislators and Presidents The Second Stone Jun 2013 #120

We're learning quick, or pretending at least. We've gone from demanding to *hoping* Catherina Jun 2013 #61

Before long I expect the administration nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #62

Probably. And only to complicate things if they dare touch him afterwards lol n/t Catherina Jun 2013 #72

ding! FirstLight Jun 2013 #79

a minor embellishment to the OP 90-percent Jun 2013 #84

Agreed and he is actually number seven nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #85

The Travesty Is Not Snowden - The Travesty Is The Emasculation Of The 4th Amendment cantbeserious Jun 2013 #90

I think timdog44 Jun 2013 #93

Snowden could not have done much or any damage to the US and her allies, junior partners in Empire, RC Jun 2013 #106

Well done, Nad. I agree. gateley Jun 2013 #89

very interesting reads in this thread temmer Jun 2013 #91

This has been indeed timdog44 Jun 2013 #95

I don't think we can do that nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #97

I think the ingenuity timdog44 Jun 2013 #99

I write dystopian fiction nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #100

I have no answer. timdog44 Jun 2013 #101

It has some of that. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #102

In good ol' days the rest of the world relied on the US One of the 99 Jun 2013 #111

hoooookay nostradamus... dionysus Jun 2013 #113

The US will fall due to our war with North Korea tammywammy Jun 2013 #121