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East Coast Pirate

(775 posts)

49. Says who?

Reply to michigandem58 (Reply #48)

Sun Jun 23, 2013, 07:44 PM

Jun 2013

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Yoohoo! Thomas Jefferson left a message: [View all] Are_grits_groceries Jun 2013 OP

Haters gotta hate. East Coast Pirate Jun 2013 #1

"The people" support the NSA surveillance michigandem58 Jun 2013 #48

Says who? East Coast Pirate Jun 2013 #49

But John Adams sought to establish "a government of laws and not of men." baldguy Jun 2013 #2

I haven't called anyone a fascist or a dictator. Are_grits_groceries Jun 2013 #3

And nobody here is trying to argue with Thomas Jefferson, either. baldguy Jun 2013 #4

I will just say that that's your opinion. Are_grits_groceries Jun 2013 #6

When Adams promoted the idea of a nation of laws he iemitsu Jun 2013 #26

Well said. cui bono Jun 2013 #80

True, as it is true that the Supremes, themselves, are iemitsu Jun 2013 #87

ISTM both Adams and Jefferson were addressing the same sort of problem... HereSince1628 Jun 2013 #5

So, when one man decides by himself that he's not going to follow a properly enacted law? baldguy Jun 2013 #11

Red herring Are_grits_groceries Jun 2013 #12

"This thread and that quote is not about Snowden specifically." baldguy Jun 2013 #16

If I wanted it to be about Snowden, Are_grits_groceries Jun 2013 #19

I believe Adam's and Jefferson's comments were about leaders and governance HereSince1628 Jun 2013 #15

So, individuals have no responsability to follow their leaders? baldguy Jun 2013 #22

So, individuals have no responsability (responsibility) to follow their leaders? malokvale77 Jun 2013 #61

Absurd juvenile Objectivist fantasy is not a Democratic Party value. baldguy Jun 2013 #71

Juvenile? malokvale77 Jun 2013 #72

Typical. You advocate for a libertarian utopia and have no clue what Objectivism means. baldguy Jun 2013 #74

I never said "every man for himself" malokvale77 Jun 2013 #75

That doesn't mean we just follow the leaders. This is supposed to be a representative cui bono Jun 2013 #81

OP intended us to be forced to disagree with Jefferson treestar Jun 2013 #65

A government of laws endowed with power granted by the people and serving at their pleasure. Nimajneb Nilknarf Jun 2013 #8

Yeah, it'd be nice to have that too. JoeyT Jun 2013 #24

So did Jefferson. What's your point? sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #27

There DUers who love to criticize Democratic leaders who follow the law honestly & sincerely. baldguy Jun 2013 #29

If leaders are not abiding by the Constitution of the US which they swore to defend and protect sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #34

The Courts, Congress, and ultimately the People decide what is and is not Constitutional. baldguy Jun 2013 #36

Ultimately the people! The people are responsible for the courts and Congress. sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #38

So, where does it end? Should all govt secrets at every level be exposed to the world? baldguy Jun 2013 #43

Nicely put treestar Jun 2013 #66

Are you talking about the NSA spying when you say cui bono Jun 2013 #82

Could you explain that please? sibelian Jun 2013 #84

Which of the following do you think Adams would be in favor of: BlueStreak Jun 2013 #58

To be legitimate... malokvale77 Jun 2013 #62

Adams was practical treestar Jun 2013 #68

And so the Founders would never want to see this unconstitutional spying then. n/t cui bono Jun 2013 #83

I don't think they'd agree with you on this treestar Jun 2013 #85

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, sounds like you and they agree with me then? cui bono Jun 2013 #86

that can be interpreted in two ways, ya know. the government has already broken the HiPointDem Jun 2013 #76

re: "Argue with him and cast aspersions on his character." thesquanderer Jun 2013 #7

Jefferson is dead, so arguing with him would be tough Progressive dog Jun 2013 #9

Do you disagree with the FFs that a government should be 'by the people, of the people and for the sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #28

Wow, the Founding Fathers agree with you too Progressive dog Jun 2013 #39

IMO, he didn't take it quite far enough. Every government degenerates Zorra Jun 2013 #10

Yep. Don't trust the government for anything. Roads, services, whatever. Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #13

That was not what was said. Are_grits_groceries Jun 2013 #20

It most certainly does not. How can you even infer that? Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #21

Ok Are_grits_groceries Jun 2013 #23

"And to render even them safe, their minds must be improved to a certain degree.", suggests iemitsu Jun 2013 #45

This isn't Six Degrees of Separation. The context of Jefferson's comments was education, not secrecy Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #46

Except that education and secrecy are the polar opposites, iemitsu Jun 2013 #47

The people built those roads, the people provide the services. Our system of government sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #30

A lot of people want the government to protect them from unknown, sneaky, evil things. Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #40

Actually they are leaving surveillance to corporations. Union Scribe Jun 2013 #69

Jefferson loved asparagus! hootinholler Jun 2013 #14

When People Fear The Government, Tyranny Prevails - When Government Fears The People, Liberty Prevails cantbeserious Jun 2013 #17

the founding fathers disagreed with each other like people now alc Jun 2013 #18

Yet the all came together in the end and wrote the Constitution which every elected official sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #31

A DUer today LWolf Jun 2013 #25

Well, the President said in his statement after the leaks, that we 'can't have 100% security without sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #32

WUT? magellan Jun 2013 #35

Yes, I thought that was a pretty shocking statement to be made by Democratic president. sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #37

Yes. LWolf Jun 2013 #51

I'm too old to be shocked anymore... malokvale77 Jun 2013 #67

We're never gonna have 100% security. winter is coming Jun 2013 #54

That's what we do when we have a government treestar Jun 2013 #70

Laws are intended to protect people. sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #73

And Lincoln suspended habeus corpus, reversing Ben Progressive dog Jun 2013 #44

FF. nt LWolf Jun 2013 #52

Well for FF #1, a man named Thomas Jefferson Progressive dog Jun 2013 #56

I was just making sure that your FF LWolf Jun 2013 #60

Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #33

He said some cool things about religion too Progressive dog Jun 2013 #41

oh, I like that one. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #53

Well clearly Jefferson was a pole-dancer dating racist. n/t DirkGently Jun 2013 #42

Oh Jefferson, Schmefferson! Sheldon Cooper Jun 2013 #50

Gotta admit... malokvale77 Jun 2013 #63

James Madison called and wants us to return his Bill of Rights if we aren't going to use it. BlueStreak Jun 2013 #55

good one. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #57

"Remember, today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday." - V for Vendetta BOG PERSON Jun 2013 #59

He meant having a representative body treestar Jun 2013 #64

cast aspersions on his character.... side note but... lunasun Jun 2013 #77

There are Hissyspit Jun 2013 #78

1. Thomas Jefferson opposed the Constitution's passage Recursion Jun 2013 #79