General Discussion

geckosfeet

(9,644 posts)

85. And I feel much the same regarding you and your posts as well.

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 04:43 AM

Jun 2013

However as regards the issue of background checks, I don't think that simply "expanding background" checks is a panacea. I do think that background checks should be done at dealers shops (they are) and uniformly for gun show sales (sometimes they are, sometimes not - depends on state). However beyond that the manner of implementation is critical to it having any affect at all.

The arrogant and boisterous position that background checks will keep guns out the hands of criminals is simplistic and even erroneous. To actively propagate this as the solution to criminal gun violence is wrong headed. To actually believe and openly state the gun lobby, gun owners and gun manufacturers court criminal clients is beyond wrong headed - it is firmly rooted in the delusional.

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Guns used for self-defense vs. acts of violence [View all] BainsBane Jun 2013 OP

The problem with Jenoch Jun 2013 #1

This is an assessment of homicide BainsBane Jun 2013 #2

YOU ARE the OP. Jenoch Jun 2013 #3

False. Unused firearms are irrelevant to either side of the gun debate. Gravitycollapse Jun 2013 #5

Please provide Jenoch Jun 2013 #99

Only for those who consider human life less important than guns BainsBane Jun 2013 #7

What about the lives Jenoch Jun 2013 #100

Everyone's life counts BainsBane Jun 2013 #119

If it's about me, why not link to this? BainsBane Jun 2013 #8

A thread about Brazil Jenoch Jun 2013 #101

This thread has zilch to do with CCW BainsBane Jun 2013 #124

Yes, but I thought Jenoch Jun 2013 #125

I'm the OP BainsBane Jun 2013 #117

Are you saying this thread Jenoch Jun 2013 #127

So anything about guns relates to any other thing ever said about guns? BainsBane Jun 2013 #129

You don't have to keep track like you suggest Jenoch Jun 2013 #137

I do care about human life, especially my own. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #153

That's not how it's labeled. Lizzie Poppet Jun 2013 #98

It is mislabled, I agree BainsBane Jun 2013 #118

And in the spectrum of gun crime in general violence and homocide geckosfeet Jun 2013 #4

Isn't it nice of the NRA and gun proponents BainsBane Jun 2013 #6

No. Not really. Kind of surprised you would think so. geckosfeet Jun 2013 #12

Yet gungeoneers rally around expanding concealed carry BainsBane Jun 2013 #20

So? geckosfeet Jun 2013 #28

It shows little concern about keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. BainsBane Jun 2013 #29

Better no law than a bad law. ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #39

again, more proof that you all oppose background checks BainsBane Jun 2013 #44

You seem to have an odd sense of proof. ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #48

saying they don't work BainsBane Jun 2013 #49

Not useless but badly implemented. ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #52

Or maybe it recognizes that the effort would be waste of time and money.... geckosfeet Jun 2013 #40

no, if it were a waste of time they wouldn't spend money opposing it BainsBane Jun 2013 #42

Uhhh. You cannot even entertain the possibility? geckosfeet Jun 2013 #59

When you say something is a waste of time BainsBane Jun 2013 #61

And I feel much the same regarding you and your posts as well. geckosfeet Jun 2013 #85

nothing is a panacea BainsBane Jun 2013 #111

Ok. How is it to be implemented outside of dealer sales and gun shows? geckosfeet Jun 2013 #123

The defeated amendment didn't include that BainsBane Jun 2013 #158

NICS checks as implemented now in guns stores are over the phone and geckosfeet Jun 2013 #159

The defeated amendment DID include that. ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #162

We have had the conversation twice... Pelican Jun 2013 #65

What specific problems? BainsBane Jun 2013 #69

Seriously.... Pelican Jun 2013 #84

if you refuse to be specific BainsBane Jun 2013 #109

How many criminals would Jenoch Jun 2013 #102

Obviously the gun lobby fears that criminals would not have access to guns BainsBane Jun 2013 #120

I don't oppose background checks. I have been on record on these threads Jenoch Jun 2013 #131

The best way to do that is UBC combined with registration, and harsher penalties for jmg257 Jun 2013 #126

I am opposed to gun registration. Jenoch Jun 2013 #132

Firearms registration is a complete non starter for me also. premium Jun 2013 #133

Other then limiting straw purchases and better enforcing UBC. nt jmg257 Jun 2013 #139

Sorry, premium Jun 2013 #140

Understood - we'll disagree then. Registration seems THE best way to ensure UBC. jmg257 Jun 2013 #144

Other then ensuring background checks are much more likely to be carried out, ya mean. jmg257 Jun 2013 #138

...would be quite a deterent for someone looking to deal it Jenoch Jun 2013 #141

They would have to get them from somewhere. Quite a few do so from jmg257 Jun 2013 #142

I fully support Jenoch Jun 2013 #143

Important, if unconditionally true. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #9

Proven false by Nate Silver BainsBane Jun 2013 #11

If true, then more Democrats were elected to Congress in 1994 than Republicans, AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #15

More pro-gun myths proven false BainsBane Jun 2013 #23

If you perceived your points as valid, maybe you wouldn't be frustrated to the point where you AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #35

voting against background checks is supporting gun proliferation BainsBane Jun 2013 #38

No, it is not. It is voting for the status quo. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #41

it's voting to keep allowing guns to wind up in the hands of criminals BainsBane Jun 2013 #45

Obviously, the gun bans in Chicago is a reason why gun violence is so low in Chicago. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #91

as you well know there is no effective gun ban in Chicago BainsBane Jun 2013 #113

That's what I don't get about carrying a weapon around mokawanis Jun 2013 #10

Why keep a fire extinguisher? pipoman Jun 2013 #13

I think a fire extinguisher makes more sense mokawanis Jun 2013 #26

Few of the licensed Jenoch Jun 2013 #103

a gun is designed to kill BainsBane Jun 2013 #31

Each tool is designed to handle the appropriate emergency. ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #34

Killed to protect property BainsBane Jun 2013 #47

Those uses would normally be defined as bad/illegal. ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #50

This graphic makes clear BainsBane Jun 2013 #51

Yes, it does to, the small extent that it goes. ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #53

provide evidence for that point then BainsBane Jun 2013 #54

Which point? That a study of limited scope as a limited use? ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #56

That guns are mostly used for non-lethal self defense BainsBane Jun 2013 #60

You misread my post. ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #62

You continue to assert that. I would like to see some data to support that claim. BainsBane Jun 2013 #115

You need to be more specific about "that". ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #151

this BainsBane Jun 2013 #157

There have been multiple studies done. ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #160

That cartoon only proves that the cartoonist is anti-gun. N/T GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #92

The conflation of such things as pipoman Jun 2013 #94

7x more likely is a statistic BainsBane Jun 2013 #116

Hmm...interesting.. pipoman Jun 2013 #155

That is probably the main difference... Pelican Jun 2013 #43

The rational world thinks about killing people? BainsBane Jun 2013 #46

First... Pelican Jun 2013 #55

On one hand you all claim only 1% of gunowners commit a homicide BainsBane Jun 2013 #57

You need a site for this ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #58

Your experience is not born out by the data BainsBane Jun 2013 #64

As accurate as these facts might be, ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #68

Missed that one BainsBane Jun 2013 #70

That one does not support your claim either. ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #72

try reading it BainsBane Jun 2013 #73

Yes, they are. ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #74

those who carry guns are more likely to involve themselves in altercations and homicides BainsBane Jun 2013 #77

Only if you misread it. ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #80

Statistically the point is the same BainsBane Jun 2013 #81

There is the unlikely possibility you might be right. ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #82

You're dissecting the text BainsBane Jun 2013 #105

No, I just understand what is, and is not, being said in your sited stats. ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #110

OMG BainsBane Jun 2013 #147

It is a nice hypothetical and all. ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #150

It's irrelevant BainsBane Jun 2013 #156

Irrelevant to you maybe. ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #161

That statement about Texas is a LIE. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #89

MJ was hoping you would not notice that. ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #108

Well, the issue is in Texas they aren't convincted BainsBane Jun 2013 #112

In Texas every shooting has to go before a grand jury. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #122

Stand your ground BainsBane Jun 2013 #149

Who said there is a high risk? Pelican Jun 2013 #63

The most common method for homicide BainsBane Jun 2013 #67

It's like you are reading entirely different posts and then responding to mine... Pelican Jun 2013 #83

Thinking does NOT equate to fantasizing. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #93

I refer you to this thread BainsBane Jun 2013 #114

Where, in that thread, is any gungeoner fantasizing about killing someone? N/T GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #121

the most graphic BainsBane Jun 2013 #148

Not fantasize, but consider. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #152

Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #14

This is an interesting question. geckosfeet Jun 2013 #17

Many automobile manufacturers equip their cars with spare tires. How many car owners actually AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #19

Complete the probability equation. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #88

Woah there. This is deaths by firearm. A minority of self-defense uses kill anyone Recursion Jun 2013 #16

Yes, it is about homicide BainsBane Jun 2013 #18

So what's the distribution of those six categories? Are non-lethal self defense uses more or less... Recursion Jun 2013 #22

I don't know BainsBane Jun 2013 #25

the chart is of gun homicides BainsBane Jun 2013 #145

Evidence of non-lethal self defense use of guns is and has always been the missing piece Recursion Jun 2013 #146

"Most self defense protects property" is an interesting statement galileoreloaded Jun 2013 #107

Can't help myself. Define "acts of violence" if you would please. flvegan Jun 2013 #21

In your world, self-defense does not involve violence? How does that work? AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #24

My world? BainsBane Jun 2013 #27

The article is not available to the public. ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #32

You could access it from a university library BainsBane Jun 2013 #33

Lucky me that I have one of those within an hour of my house. ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #36

some public libraries as well BainsBane Jun 2013 #37

The chart seems to come from this article: ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #30

And everything on that chart madville Jun 2013 #66

guns don't kill, people do BainsBane Jun 2013 #71

True, but a small number is exponentially higher ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #75

nonetheless true BainsBane Jun 2013 #76

OK, that really was your point? ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #78

Probably around 0.0004% madville Jun 2013 #79

hmm, other gungenoneers have claimed it is one percent BainsBane Jun 2013 #104

An image pulled from Facebook pintobean Jun 2013 #86

Thanks anyway but I'll take my chances. ileus Jun 2013 #87

That graphic is from 1998, do you have anything more recent? n/t tammywammy Jun 2013 #90

Of coarse not.. pipoman Jun 2013 #97

So rrneck Jun 2013 #95

It's a body count distribution, a chart of deaths Nimajneb Nilknarf Jun 2013 #96

I am a bit confused sarisataka Jun 2013 #106

Typical flawed anti rights study. former9thward Jun 2013 #128

anti rights, as though guns are the only rights that matter BainsBane Jun 2013 #130

If I have to provide evidence that me holding a gun will stop you from attacking former9thward Jun 2013 #134

Common sense should be enough evidence. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #154

From my vantage, you're doing a fine job, Bains. nt Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #135

Them main use of guns is not for either Suicide, Self-defense, or acts of violence 1-Old-Man Jun 2013 #136