General Discussion

ProSense

(116,464 posts) Mon Jun 24, 2013, 02:21 PM Jun 2013

The problem with defending Snowden. [View all]

It went from whistleblowing to a premeditated leak.

I wasn't against Snowden and was laughing when people called him a spy but...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023082447

He intentionally planned to steal the information, making the decision even before he had access to the information, He then stole it and misrepresented the program and other details via Glenn Greenwald.

Glenn Greenwald's 'Epic Botch'?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023012813

Greenwald is accusing President Obama of making "false" claims, but hasn't backed up his claims
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023041862

He then made the story about him, and his actions revealed that his goal was likely to embarrasss the United States.

NYT editor's blog: Snowden’s Questionable New Turn
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023034825

China Said to Have Made Call to Let Leaker Depart
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023078738

146 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

The problem with defending Snowden. [View all] ProSense Jun 2013 OP

I have no problem with that-- sunlight is the best disinfectant... mike_c Jun 2013 #1

You may not have a problem with it, but ProSense Jun 2013 #2

Give it a rest, PS. bluedigger Jun 2013 #3

Oh look...another board nanny trying to regulate what's posted on DU Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 #4

GMTA! Cha Jun 2013 #46

Lol, you crack me up! n-t Logical Jun 2013 #76

daily? More like every other hour or so. she's posted 75 Snowden ops. yep. 75 cali Jun 2013 #14

*snort* Skidmore Jun 2013 #24

I sure the hell haven't posted 75 ops about one person cali Jun 2013 #35

You know, every time one of you tries to shut ProSense down, I rec the read, Denzil_DC Jun 2013 #34

Thanks for the reminder, Denzil Hekate Jun 2013 #48

Hey look, another activated dormant account. Union Scribe Jun 2013 #53

Dormant? Another unfounded allegation. Denzil_DC Jun 2013 #67

Those who don't take part gain no standing, so when the fist thing they do is lecture Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #84

Luckily, it's not up to you to dictate how I or anybody else participate here, Denzil_DC Jun 2013 #90

Too bad you think so.. who are you to tell a member of a politcal board to Cha Jun 2013 #45

I don't think any of us were aware you were the story police. The sheer arrogance of your okaawhatever Jun 2013 #57

Why are her ops obsessive, when you don't call the many making him the karynnj Jun 2013 #128

Exactly....he's definitely not a "whistleblower" Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 #5

This message was self-deleted by its author Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #15

Bingo.... Historic NY Jun 2013 #111

He became disenchanted with the NSA spying, but hoped Obama would intervene siligut Jun 2013 #124

You know, you have to provide evidence if you are going to be successful siligut Jun 2013 #126

the problem with defending Snowden's rights... grasswire Jun 2013 #6

zing! Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #7

And you know that Snowden's detractors are all being paid because the little voice talking ... 11 Bravo Jun 2013 #8

Nobody *knows* it Bravo, but... you know... sibelian Jun 2013 #9

Only a few are being paid, those that have the biggest bang. Katashi_itto Jun 2013 #10

Prove to me that you aren't a hamster. Ikonoklast Jun 2013 #72

Bravo, you owe me some screen cleaner Hekate Jun 2013 #49

DAAAYYUM!!!!!! Number23 Jun 2013 #58

Sounded like a dog whistle to me. Major Hogwash Jun 2013 #79

Bravo Bravo. great white snark Jun 2013 #96

Karl Rove is probably DU's top $$$ contributor emulatorloo Jun 2013 #115

Good thing about democracy: Opinions are free ProSense Jun 2013 #12

once again Prosense is correct and sensible sigmasix Jun 2013 #119

Which of Snowden's rights are being violated? Please be specific. (nt) jeff47 Jun 2013 #19

People are just being crybabies because he's been called out for what he is davidpdx Jun 2013 #56

Damn right. n/t Aerows Jun 2013 #33

^^^ This RetroLounge Jun 2013 #66

Snowden is very naughty because he exposed the government (and corporation) snoops. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #11

the problem with defending killers who murder wedding parties using drones. msongs Jun 2013 #13

Dear God, you want a vegan president! aquart Jun 2013 #30

Are you seriously suggesting a binary choice? Vegan or murderous of large wedding parties? Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #87

Snowden is relevant Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #16

I'm impressed! 75 ops on Snowden from you in two weeks. cali Jun 2013 #17

Where did you get that number? n/t ProSense Jun 2013 #21

Equally impressive ... you have managed to respond to damned near all of them. 11 Bravo Jun 2013 #22

Okay, I swear I'm not stalking you but I was thinking the exact same thing Number23 Jun 2013 #59

Lots of stretch there. Hissyspit Jun 2013 #18

K & R Scurrilous Jun 2013 #20

One thing I haven't seen mentioned about Snowden at all justiceischeap Jun 2013 #23

No "probably" about it at all. Hekate Jun 2013 #51

Some folks on DU only see black or white justiceischeap Jun 2013 #60

This is exactly how I feel. Just Saying Jun 2013 #108

+1 tallahasseedem Jun 2013 #137

What a pathetic sense of morality you seem to have. You keep slamming a hero for the corporatists. In Truth We Trust Jun 2013 #25

Snowden plans more leaks...will let foreign press decide if leaks endanger Americans ProSense Jun 2013 #26

I guess this is an improvement from your usual... ljm2002 Jun 2013 #27

Well, ProSense Jun 2013 #28

I asked you a question... ljm2002 Jun 2013 #29

Yes ProSense Jun 2013 #31

"Yes ...you are. Enjoy" ljm2002 Jun 2013 #36

Again ProSense Jun 2013 #39

You're welcome... ljm2002 Jun 2013 #42

"Thanks, I will" bobduca Jun 2013 #86

I agree, it is spam and not discussion. The basic disrespect for others is just mean. Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #93

Good luck. Flooding the board like this shouldn't be allowed. JackRiddler Jun 2013 #37

Thanks... ljm2002 Jun 2013 #43

its more than allowed bobduca Jun 2013 #88

So nice of you to kick this thread Hekate Jun 2013 #50

I'm pretty sure she's an SEO bot that's spun out of control. nt Romulus Quirinus Jun 2013 #113

LOL. Better an SEO bot than a CEO bot, I say! Still, good one! :) - nt HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #117

Its hard putting toothpaste back in the tube huh! nt galileoreloaded Jun 2013 #32

If you don't want to defend the constitution, you are playing on the wrong side. "I will support and grahamhgreen Jun 2013 #38

Snowden is irrelevant. (nt) nessa Jun 2013 #40

Is the DOJ prosecuting Cheney (Plame leaker) as a leaker or a whistleblower? Dr Fate Jun 2013 #41

I find that you are doing an awesome job. bravenak Jun 2013 #44

And, Leaker Snowden's mentor, Greenwald, has runny egg all over Cha Jun 2013 #47

And a few more dollars are deposited in ProSense's bank account. Gravitycollapse Jun 2013 #52

Alerted. Wonder if it gets to stand? Hekate Jun 2013 #61

Oooh, that was quick! I'm impressed. Hekate Jun 2013 #62

That's because people are tired of watching outright party shills manipulate information. Gravitycollapse Jun 2013 #63

Talk about manipulation Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #65

It means that she has taken a strong, content heavy, articulate stand that is karynnj Jun 2013 #129

I've been checking the snail-mail for my royalty checks. I'm soooo disappointed there aren't any. Hekate Jun 2013 #130

Obviously people are sick of it. n-t Logical Jun 2013 #80

I agree. As you'll see downthread, I disagree vehemently with ProSense on HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #118

That is courteous of you, and I appreciate it Hekate Jun 2013 #131

ACLU member here. We specialize in trying to protect the HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #136

May I shake your hand, then? Hekate Jun 2013 #138

Googlebombing is hard work bobduca Jun 2013 #112

Can you really be that clueless? Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #54

"By this metric, Manning isn't a whistleblower either. " ProSense Jun 2013 #68

Thought so. Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #69

Must Bonobo Jun 2013 #55

Snowden SamKnause Jun 2013 #64

yummy yum more spam SwampG8r Jun 2013 #70

Eat up, and thanks for kicking the thread. ProSense Jun 2013 #71

Pro, since calling you a paid shill is now OK with DU's Angst Brigade, where can I sign up? Ikonoklast Jun 2013 #73

LOL! ProSense Jun 2013 #74

If you look at DU's site stats, traffic is way down, Denzil_DC Jun 2013 #81

Jesus, a new post to link to old posts! Spamming again! n-t Logical Jun 2013 #75

OMG ProSense Jun 2013 #77

Is it an attention deal for you? Seriously? Bumping own posts.... Logical Jun 2013 #78

I love it! ProSense Jun 2013 #82

There is no "problem" but for the one in your mind, IMNSHO. idwiyo Jun 2013 #83

"P.S. Your opinion is not the same as fact." ProSense Jun 2013 #85

I can only wish you were! Unfortunately you can not admit that your posts are nothing else but your idwiyo Jun 2013 #89

Actually ProSense Jun 2013 #92

I am looking forward to your next post where you'll admit its nothing else but your opinion. idwiyo Jun 2013 #95

Yeah, because it will be hard to tell, right? ProSense Jun 2013 #101

I am glad you can laugh at yourself. It's very refreshing. :) idwiyo Jun 2013 #105

The problem w/your point is you still haven't established Espionage, which requires proof leveymg Jun 2013 #91

The OP ProSense Jun 2013 #97

Of course it was premeditated - he didn't think it up after the fact or spill accidentally. Geez. leveymg Jun 2013 #102

What? n/t ProSense Jun 2013 #104

Of course he committed a premediated crime. You imply he was "spying" - Espionage - wrong, leveymg Jun 2013 #107

No, you're the one ProSense Jun 2013 #110

Quoting you: "I wasn't against Snowden and was laughing when people called him a spy but..." leveymg Jun 2013 #121

Actually, ProSense Jun 2013 #123

So that makes the little piece of innuendo about Espionage once removed, or twice? leveymg Jun 2013 #125

What? ProSense Jun 2013 #127

This is a distinction without a difference. Ellsberg's leak of the HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #94

No, ProSense Jun 2013 #100

If Ellsberg "went through the appropriate channels," then why was he prosecuted? Ellsberg HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #106

Are you ProSense Jun 2013 #109

Ellsberg himself justifies Snowden's actions. When you use a word like HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #114

Oh please ProSense Jun 2013 #116

I don't think I'm expressing myself or my feelings very clearly. I'm going to HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #120

"Appropriate Channels"? RobinA Jun 2013 #132

Kick & Rec BklnDem75 Jun 2013 #98

Too bad Greenwald is a former disgraced attorney and not a publicist. great white snark Jun 2013 #99

Disgraced? Are you implying Greenwald was disbarred? leveymg Jun 2013 #103

That's a YP, not an MP usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #122

YP, MP, I don't know all of this industry jargon. n/t hughee99 Jun 2013 #134

Couldn't resist usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #140

If you think what he claims is evidence of an illegal program, or of government abusing hughee99 Jun 2013 #133

Well, ProSense Jun 2013 #135

You can argue about this with respect to his credibility, hughee99 Jun 2013 #139

True, ProSense Jun 2013 #142

The problem with NOT defending Snowden... Octafish Jun 2013 #141

Oh, he's due a fair trial. n/t ProSense Jun 2013 #143

Of course. Like Don Siegelman. Octafish Jun 2013 #144

Are you saying there are no fair trials? ProSense Jun 2013 #145

I'm saying that the Department of Justice railroaded Don Siegelman. Octafish Jun 2013 #146