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treestar

(82,383 posts)

61. All I can say is how naive

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 04:13 PM

Jun 2013

Don't care if the Chinese or Russians have our confidential information? It's not being kept from us, it's being kept by us. We entrust certain people with it. We did not want Osama bin Laden to know we knew where he was. They weren't trying to keep that secret from you. We wanted to keep it secret from Osama.

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So now Snowden's acknowledged that his main goal at Booz Allen was espionage. [View all] pnwmom Jun 2013 OP

Espionage necessarily involves acting on behalf of a foreign power. This doesn't prove that at all. leveymg Jun 2013 #1

You've been watching too many James Bond movies. pnwmom Jun 2013 #2

O.k... Hissyspit Jun 2013 #12

That isn't required either. "Or with reason to believe" covers all the necessary ground. nt pnwmom Jun 2013 #16

O.k... Hissyspit Jun 2013 #17

I'll leave that up to the jury. n/t pnwmom Jun 2013 #24

TS label on the documents. jeff47 Jun 2013 #26

Seems rather vague to me. Hissyspit Jun 2013 #34

No, the Top Secret label means jeff47 Jun 2013 #35

No, I was arguing how the law would be applied in this particular case. Hissyspit Jun 2013 #40

No, you were nitpicking the definition above jeff47 Jun 2013 #43

"Nitpicking" the definition is not important? Hissyspit Jun 2013 #44

Would you prefer a different term? jeff47 Jun 2013 #46

He swore an oath NOT to do what he has done... VanillaRhapsody Jun 2013 #37

I guess it depends "what the meaning of if means". Sounds like that kind of defense you are making still_one Jun 2013 #76

No. Hissyspit Jun 2013 #77

I understand, and it is a valid question still_one Jun 2013 #79

This is from Executive Order 12356 jmowreader Jun 2013 #60

Thanks, jmow. Hissyspit Jun 2013 #62

Then why release the information at key times, ie, when Obama was talking to the Chinese President still_one Jun 2013 #78

That's the logical coincidence fallacy. Hissyspit Jun 2013 #82

The information released specifically about China when he was talking with China still_one Jun 2013 #90

Prove intent to have the info be used "to the injury" of the US. DeltaLitProf Jun 2013 #19

No one has to prove his intent. All that needs to be shown is a "reason to believe." pnwmom Jun 2013 #25

And he went to China to give it to them and is giving it to others. More: DevonRex Jun 2013 #3

So far, as far as we know, he only gave some things to journalists. Hissyspit Jun 2013 #14

LOL. Did you just fall off the Christmas tree? DevonRex Jun 2013 #18

No, I didn't. Hissyspit Jun 2013 #20

If the Chinese forced him to give up the info involuntarily . . . DeltaLitProf Jun 2013 #21

Yep. "Injury to the US" clause in the definition above. (nt) jeff47 Jun 2013 #28

Yes. I didn't just fall off the Christmas tree, either. He intended to steal national security DevonRex Jun 2013 #31

He voluntarily shared documents with the Chinese newspaper. pnwmom Jun 2013 #32

PROVE THAT! randome Jun 2013 #45

LOL pnwmom Jun 2013 #49

Why? Hissyspit Jun 2013 #50

Guess you have to have a sense of humor. n/t pnwmom Jun 2013 #53

I do. Hissyspit Jun 2013 #56

Um, that's what I said. Hissyspit Jun 2013 #52

No one said he didn't. That's not what DevonRex said. Hissyspit Jun 2013 #48

I wasn't responding to what DevonRex said. n/t pnwmom Jun 2013 #51

But DeltaLitProf was. Hissyspit Jun 2013 #54

And DeltaLitProf wanted to know what would happen if China forced him to give up pnwmom Jun 2013 #65

so he set out to expose a great injustice and the surveilance state.... mike_c Jun 2013 #4

it is Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #6

yeah, that seems to be the overarching consideration.... mike_c Jun 2013 #7

And then he let himself get diverted by an issue that would completely pnwmom Jun 2013 #8

so?-- it's all part and parcel of the surveillance state mentality, and WE are the "enemy..." mike_c Jun 2013 #13

Apparently you've never had a bad sunburn. n/t pnwmom Jun 2013 #15

perhaps, but my ass gets chapped on occasion.... mike_c Jun 2013 #29

How could that be? treestar Jun 2013 #39

it's just that purposeful exposure of NSA spying is no different than spontaneous exposure.... mike_c Jun 2013 #42

"...the central fact of the NSA's broad and unfocused spying on Americans..." randome Jun 2013 #47

OK, cool-- you evidently agree that he didn't reveal anything new... mike_c Jun 2013 #58

Why not stop arguing about Snowden and start some OPs telling us how much you favor mhatrw Jun 2013 #72

All I can say is how naive treestar Jun 2013 #61

but they certainly ARE trying to keep secret the extent of surveillance without probable cause.... mike_c Jun 2013 #66

Edward Snowden is a US citizen who wanted to learn more about the US government. Eric J in MN Jun 2013 #5

He had taken an oath to protect classified data and instead he released information on international pnwmom Jun 2013 #10

I don't agree about his motive. Eric J in MN Jun 2013 #23

Timing. He released information on our hacking China while Obama was pnwmom Jun 2013 #36

The US often negotiates with China and Russia. NT Eric J in MN Jun 2013 #73

Not publicly, it doesn't. Not with Obama meeting with their leaders. pnwmom Jun 2013 #85

A lot of people have security clearances treestar Jun 2013 #41

Kinda gives new meaning to the words "Snow job" after awhile Hekate Jun 2013 #9

this will give Booz a bad reputation markiv Jun 2013 #11

Not really...they are still getting new federal contracts HipChick Jun 2013 #22

Booz Allen Hamilton got some 'splainin to do, that's for sure. Buns_of_Fire Jun 2013 #27

Well, it worked and the snoops have been busted. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #30

Good for him. Snowden's actions reveal that BA is utterly incompetent. snagglepuss Jun 2013 #33

How do you figure? They didn't clear him (nt) Recursion Jun 2013 #38

He waltzed out with stashes of classified info. Why weren't systems in snagglepuss Jun 2013 #55

Good question. n/t pnwmom Jun 2013 #63

Booz Allen's main goal is to make money. Octafish Jun 2013 #57

i could swear i posted this this morning and they said it was old news. lol allin99 Jun 2013 #59

here's the problem I have with this claim lanlady Jun 2013 #64

Depending on his level of clearance, he might have been told that before he went to work there. pnwmom Jun 2013 #68

or this might all be a bullshit witch hunt by an administration that pledged transparancy... mike_c Jun 2013 #69

Do you think he was lying to the newspaper about knowing he'd have the access when he took the job? pnwmom Jun 2013 #70

I have no clue about that.... mike_c Jun 2013 #74

I've said repeatedly that I think starting a debate about the internal US surveillance pnwmom Jun 2013 #84

so let me get this correct-- because he released info about U.S. spying on foreign nationals... mike_c Jun 2013 #86

It doesn't matter much what a bunch of DU liberals think -- he's defeating his purpose pnwmom Jun 2013 #87

then they're fools.... mike_c Jun 2013 #88

Kenneth Ford only had a box in his house Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #67

He got off lightly! When I was kid. we got hung for a punch card! n/t mhatrw Jun 2013 #75

So, for you, the issue is Snowden. Right? mhatrw Jun 2013 #71

There are two separate issues. One is the internal surveillance, and I welcome pnwmom Jun 2013 #91

Is this a direct quote from Snowden? kentuck Jun 2013 #80

It's a quote from the newspaper he trusted to tell his story. n/t pnwmom Jun 2013 #96

And he gained access in just three months? caseymoz Jun 2013 #81

And was talking to Greenwald a month BEFORE he took the Booz Allen job. CakeGrrl Jun 2013 #83

That's a leap... Earth_First Jun 2013 #89

Step 1: Gain access to lists of machines all over the world that the NSA hacked pnwmom Jun 2013 #92

No, that's not what he said!!! caseymoz Jun 2013 #93

No, it was more than mere curiosity. Here's what else he said: pnwmom Jun 2013 #94

Point taken, but a leaker is not a spy. caseymoz Jun 2013 #97

And, his mentor Glenn Greenwald has egg dripping all over his face.. Cha Jun 2013 #95