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Life Long Dem

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67. Kenneth Ford only had a box in his house

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 04:37 PM

Jun 2013

Kenneth Wayne Ford Jr. was indicted under the Espionage Act 18 U.S.C. § 793(e) for allegedly having a box of documents in his house after he left NSA employment around 2004. He was sentenced to six years in prison in 2006.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage_Act_of_1917

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So now Snowden's acknowledged that his main goal at Booz Allen was espionage. [View all] pnwmom Jun 2013 OP

Espionage necessarily involves acting on behalf of a foreign power. This doesn't prove that at all. leveymg Jun 2013 #1

You've been watching too many James Bond movies. pnwmom Jun 2013 #2

O.k... Hissyspit Jun 2013 #12

That isn't required either. "Or with reason to believe" covers all the necessary ground. nt pnwmom Jun 2013 #16

O.k... Hissyspit Jun 2013 #17

I'll leave that up to the jury. n/t pnwmom Jun 2013 #24

TS label on the documents. jeff47 Jun 2013 #26

Seems rather vague to me. Hissyspit Jun 2013 #34

No, the Top Secret label means jeff47 Jun 2013 #35

No, I was arguing how the law would be applied in this particular case. Hissyspit Jun 2013 #40

No, you were nitpicking the definition above jeff47 Jun 2013 #43

"Nitpicking" the definition is not important? Hissyspit Jun 2013 #44

Would you prefer a different term? jeff47 Jun 2013 #46

He swore an oath NOT to do what he has done... VanillaRhapsody Jun 2013 #37

I guess it depends "what the meaning of if means". Sounds like that kind of defense you are making still_one Jun 2013 #76

No. Hissyspit Jun 2013 #77

I understand, and it is a valid question still_one Jun 2013 #79

This is from Executive Order 12356 jmowreader Jun 2013 #60

Thanks, jmow. Hissyspit Jun 2013 #62

Then why release the information at key times, ie, when Obama was talking to the Chinese President still_one Jun 2013 #78

That's the logical coincidence fallacy. Hissyspit Jun 2013 #82

The information released specifically about China when he was talking with China still_one Jun 2013 #90

Prove intent to have the info be used "to the injury" of the US. DeltaLitProf Jun 2013 #19

No one has to prove his intent. All that needs to be shown is a "reason to believe." pnwmom Jun 2013 #25

And he went to China to give it to them and is giving it to others. More: DevonRex Jun 2013 #3

So far, as far as we know, he only gave some things to journalists. Hissyspit Jun 2013 #14

LOL. Did you just fall off the Christmas tree? DevonRex Jun 2013 #18

No, I didn't. Hissyspit Jun 2013 #20

If the Chinese forced him to give up the info involuntarily . . . DeltaLitProf Jun 2013 #21

Yep. "Injury to the US" clause in the definition above. (nt) jeff47 Jun 2013 #28

Yes. I didn't just fall off the Christmas tree, either. He intended to steal national security DevonRex Jun 2013 #31

He voluntarily shared documents with the Chinese newspaper. pnwmom Jun 2013 #32

PROVE THAT! randome Jun 2013 #45

LOL pnwmom Jun 2013 #49

Why? Hissyspit Jun 2013 #50

Guess you have to have a sense of humor. n/t pnwmom Jun 2013 #53

I do. Hissyspit Jun 2013 #56

Um, that's what I said. Hissyspit Jun 2013 #52

No one said he didn't. That's not what DevonRex said. Hissyspit Jun 2013 #48

I wasn't responding to what DevonRex said. n/t pnwmom Jun 2013 #51

But DeltaLitProf was. Hissyspit Jun 2013 #54

And DeltaLitProf wanted to know what would happen if China forced him to give up pnwmom Jun 2013 #65

so he set out to expose a great injustice and the surveilance state.... mike_c Jun 2013 #4

it is Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #6

yeah, that seems to be the overarching consideration.... mike_c Jun 2013 #7

And then he let himself get diverted by an issue that would completely pnwmom Jun 2013 #8

so?-- it's all part and parcel of the surveillance state mentality, and WE are the "enemy..." mike_c Jun 2013 #13

Apparently you've never had a bad sunburn. n/t pnwmom Jun 2013 #15

perhaps, but my ass gets chapped on occasion.... mike_c Jun 2013 #29

How could that be? treestar Jun 2013 #39

it's just that purposeful exposure of NSA spying is no different than spontaneous exposure.... mike_c Jun 2013 #42

"...the central fact of the NSA's broad and unfocused spying on Americans..." randome Jun 2013 #47

OK, cool-- you evidently agree that he didn't reveal anything new... mike_c Jun 2013 #58

Why not stop arguing about Snowden and start some OPs telling us how much you favor mhatrw Jun 2013 #72

All I can say is how naive treestar Jun 2013 #61

but they certainly ARE trying to keep secret the extent of surveillance without probable cause.... mike_c Jun 2013 #66

Edward Snowden is a US citizen who wanted to learn more about the US government. Eric J in MN Jun 2013 #5

He had taken an oath to protect classified data and instead he released information on international pnwmom Jun 2013 #10

I don't agree about his motive. Eric J in MN Jun 2013 #23

Timing. He released information on our hacking China while Obama was pnwmom Jun 2013 #36

The US often negotiates with China and Russia. NT Eric J in MN Jun 2013 #73

Not publicly, it doesn't. Not with Obama meeting with their leaders. pnwmom Jun 2013 #85

A lot of people have security clearances treestar Jun 2013 #41

Kinda gives new meaning to the words "Snow job" after awhile Hekate Jun 2013 #9

this will give Booz a bad reputation markiv Jun 2013 #11

Not really...they are still getting new federal contracts HipChick Jun 2013 #22

Booz Allen Hamilton got some 'splainin to do, that's for sure. Buns_of_Fire Jun 2013 #27

Well, it worked and the snoops have been busted. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #30

Good for him. Snowden's actions reveal that BA is utterly incompetent. snagglepuss Jun 2013 #33

How do you figure? They didn't clear him (nt) Recursion Jun 2013 #38

He waltzed out with stashes of classified info. Why weren't systems in snagglepuss Jun 2013 #55

Good question. n/t pnwmom Jun 2013 #63

Booz Allen's main goal is to make money. Octafish Jun 2013 #57

i could swear i posted this this morning and they said it was old news. lol allin99 Jun 2013 #59

here's the problem I have with this claim lanlady Jun 2013 #64

Depending on his level of clearance, he might have been told that before he went to work there. pnwmom Jun 2013 #68

or this might all be a bullshit witch hunt by an administration that pledged transparancy... mike_c Jun 2013 #69

Do you think he was lying to the newspaper about knowing he'd have the access when he took the job? pnwmom Jun 2013 #70

I have no clue about that.... mike_c Jun 2013 #74

I've said repeatedly that I think starting a debate about the internal US surveillance pnwmom Jun 2013 #84

so let me get this correct-- because he released info about U.S. spying on foreign nationals... mike_c Jun 2013 #86

It doesn't matter much what a bunch of DU liberals think -- he's defeating his purpose pnwmom Jun 2013 #87

then they're fools.... mike_c Jun 2013 #88

Kenneth Ford only had a box in his house Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #67

He got off lightly! When I was kid. we got hung for a punch card! n/t mhatrw Jun 2013 #75

So, for you, the issue is Snowden. Right? mhatrw Jun 2013 #71

There are two separate issues. One is the internal surveillance, and I welcome pnwmom Jun 2013 #91

Is this a direct quote from Snowden? kentuck Jun 2013 #80

It's a quote from the newspaper he trusted to tell his story. n/t pnwmom Jun 2013 #96

And he gained access in just three months? caseymoz Jun 2013 #81

And was talking to Greenwald a month BEFORE he took the Booz Allen job. CakeGrrl Jun 2013 #83

That's a leap... Earth_First Jun 2013 #89

Step 1: Gain access to lists of machines all over the world that the NSA hacked pnwmom Jun 2013 #92

No, that's not what he said!!! caseymoz Jun 2013 #93

No, it was more than mere curiosity. Here's what else he said: pnwmom Jun 2013 #94

Point taken, but a leaker is not a spy. caseymoz Jun 2013 #97

And, his mentor Glenn Greenwald has egg dripping all over his face.. Cha Jun 2013 #95