General Discussion

tblue

(16,350 posts)

82. I think I was a lot less worried

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 05:57 PM

Jun 2013

at the time. I was really young and, after 12 years of Reagan/Bush. I was just SO relieved to have a Democratic POTUS. And, before Bush II and 9/11, I just never thought a POTUS would undermine the Constitution to the degree that W and Cheney and Rove did. A desperation has set in since then; GWBush made it urgent that we do a 180 ASAP. A 30, 60, 90, 120 degree turn would not be enough. It's not Obama's fault that that was what was needed. But I do think the expectation was a hard 180 degree reversal of all of Bush's bad policies. Turns out it wasn't possible for various reasons we all won't agree on. But I think that's what drives the frustration you see posted here. People are scared and feel helpless and exasperated. And no amount of screaming at them will change that.

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Snowden is a traitor. He has no moral courage. He should come home and go to prison. [View all] BlueCheese Jun 2013 OP

..... sibelian Jun 2013 #1

Snowden's Polebots - worse than Hitler and Stalin, put together. leveymg Jun 2013 #58

Hey! Gort didn't carry off any busty blondes..lol SummerSnow Jun 2013 #76

What, no pony? nt bemildred Jun 2013 #2

Getting t i r e s o m e..... b l a c k i n g ...... ....ooouuuut....... Smarmie Doofus Jun 2013 #3

There are two completely different issues here that should be kept separate Tx4obama Jun 2013 #4

What is the benefit of Snowden standing trial. nt ZombieHorde Jun 2013 #5

He admitted to committing a crime. They have to put him on trial. hrmjustin Jun 2013 #9

Cheney admitted to committing a crime. They have to HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #11

I am all for putting Cheney on trial. hrmjustin Jun 2013 #12

Who should go on trial first? Let's see: Operation HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #14

Well Cheney has the greater sin in my view so I think he could go first. hrmjustin Jun 2013 #16

Me too, brother, me too. Torture also happens to be a hell of a lot more serious HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #18

Cheney is a murderer, Snowden released state secrets. hrmjustin Jun 2013 #21

And if terrorists use the information that Snowden released, to get around security and kill SoapBox Jun 2013 #44

"who gave the information ... to ... a MURDOCH organization"... ljm2002 Jun 2013 #49

You were born too late for WWII Nazi Germany, huh? RC Jun 2013 #50

+100 Katashi_itto Jun 2013 #61

There's more than one judge in this country jmowreader Jun 2013 #38

What happens if they don't? nt ZombieHorde Jun 2013 #30

Well if they don't catch him there is nothing they can do. hrmjustin Jun 2013 #48

Maybe that would be good. Perhaps very good. ZombieHorde Jun 2013 #87

It would be sending the message that people with clearance who leak pnwmom Jun 2013 #78

That might a very good message to send. ZombieHorde Jun 2013 #88

I don't know what planet you're living on, but it's not Planet Earth. n/t pnwmom Jun 2013 #90

We disagree, so I must be from outerspace. nt ZombieHorde Jun 2013 #93

Because he committed a crime Whisp Jun 2013 #89

I am not convinced that the leaks should stop. ZombieHorde Jun 2013 #92

Excellent idea pscot Jun 2013 #6

We were NOT given the chance to object marions ghost Jun 2013 #7

Just because he exposed things that Americans should probably know about.. DCBob Jun 2013 #22

We should probably not continue to chat marions ghost Jun 2013 #25

Abuse of the word Probably Aerows Jun 2013 #31

Sure. Feel free to ignore me. DCBob Jun 2013 #32

Where are the laws protecting us? marions ghost Jun 2013 #39

Not at all egregious if you factor in national security issues. DCBob Jun 2013 #40

that's what they say...but marions ghost Jun 2013 #42

Im sure no one thinks you are stupid.. DCBob Jun 2013 #45

The government has treated the American people as both stupid marions ghost Jun 2013 #47

They changed the law to make the illegal and unconstitutional, legal. RC Jun 2013 #55

Have you ever read the 4th Amendment? hueymahl Jun 2013 #64

Welcome to DU! Hydra Jun 2013 #73

Well thank Eric Holder for permission to "excuse the crime". L0oniX Jun 2013 #37

When they talk about how we have a "right to know" treestar Jun 2013 #51

Congress isn't going to change shit. Daniel537 Jun 2013 #10

Snowden cant change shit. DCBob Jun 2013 #34

Before change can occur, the problem must first be observed and recognized. RC Jun 2013 #56

ANd you know the NSA is operating under the law how? Looks like they are violating the law. Have rhett o rick Jun 2013 #13

+++ marions ghost Jun 2013 #26

How do you know it is not operating lawfully? DCBob Jun 2013 #43

I hope you are right but I am skeptical. I think it's worth investigation, dont you? nm rhett o rick Jun 2013 #60

False Hydra Jun 2013 #74

+1 DCBob Jun 2013 #19

Exactly Andy823 Jun 2013 #23

+1 n/t tammywammy Jun 2013 #27

Were those "laws" made in the public interests? L0oniX Jun 2013 #36

Funny thing... Scootaloo Jun 2013 #54

Snowden needs to take the full brunt of his punishment. mhatrw Jun 2013 #63

"If folks do not like the current laws then work to have them changed. " progressoid Jun 2013 #70

no, they are told that cause they use racist winger memes to attack Obama vs attacking the law... uponit7771 Jun 2013 #91

It's not about Snowden. Good post, thanks. Scuba Jun 2013 #8

A pony? Aerows Jun 2013 #15

That won't be enough. progressoid Jun 2013 #71

You can't win an argument when a cult of personality is involved. PSPS Jun 2013 #17

Did Clinton have this level of tblue Jun 2013 #41

Good lord yes. JoeyT Jun 2013 #80

I think I was a lot less worried tblue Jun 2013 #82

Bullshit treestar Jun 2013 #52

Frankly, I have no interest in "protecting the security" of any surveillance police state. PSPS Jun 2013 #65

+100 RC Jun 2013 #57

19 replies and I can only see 6 carolinayellowdog Jun 2013 #20

... sibelian Jun 2013 #46

now I see 21 out of 71 carolinayellowdog Jun 2013 #72

I hope DU gets your point. PufPuf23 Jun 2013 #24

If our government listened to every phone call we would have 0% unemployment because it would appleannie1 Jun 2013 #28

Post removed Post removed Jun 2013 #29

You are under-informed about what clever heuristics Romulus Quirinus Jun 2013 #33

A computer can only store ones and zeroes creeksneakers2 Jun 2013 #66

How do you think audio recordings work? Not trying to be mean. Romulus Quirinus Jun 2013 #68

And in the end a human either has to listen or read. appleannie1 Jun 2013 #77

But they don't have to read everything. Romulus Quirinus Jun 2013 #83

No matter what search criteria they use creeksneakers2 Jun 2013 #85

I can lead you to water. Romulus Quirinus Jun 2013 #86

Why? Aerows Jun 2013 #35

Wow Hydra Jun 2013 #75

When you use google, JoeyT Jun 2013 #81

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #53

Till Russia objects to the shooting down one of their planes... RC Jun 2013 #59

I like the way you think, young lady. There's a job that's just opened up for you. leveymg Jun 2013 #62

He van be both a hero and a traitor creeksneakers2 Jun 2013 #67

Stop distracting from the issue of the out-of-control surveillance state. Fire Walk With Me Jun 2013 #69

A traitor to a national government but not to human rights. Which is more important? n/t pampango Jun 2013 #79

That is what Obama and Holder say about Cheney the Plame Leaker too. Dr Fate Jun 2013 #84