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In reply to the discussion: Internet anti-Greenwald agitators are playing some folks for Fools [View all]Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)59. Do you ever read? The news is all over the world, men who worked directly for NSA
as well as one that designed the net they are using have already confirmed the documents were real and Senators are simultaneously telling us that is only the tip of the iceberg.
This level of willfully uninformed consent you display is astonishing. All you keep saying is "that mean man lies about daddy"! You are focused so entirely on Snowden and Obama, you don't even know the issue. Read more and be less emotionally invested in the love and hate of personalities, there is much to learn.
A school of fish swims peacefully in the ocean. Out of sight, a net is spread beneath it. At the edges of the net is a circle of fishing boats. Suddenly, the fishermen yank up the edges of the net, and in an instant the calm, open ocean becomes a boiling caldron, an exitless, rapidly shrinking prison in which the fish thrash in vain for freedom and life.
Increasingly, the American people are like this school of fish in the moments before the net is pulled up. The net in question is of course the Internet and associated instruments of data collection, and the fishermen are corporations and the government. That is, to use the more common metaphor, we have come to live alongside the machinery of a turnkey tyranny. As we now know, thanks to the courageous whistleblower Edward Snowden, the National Security Agency has been secretly ordering Verizon to sweep up and hand over all the metadata from the phone calls of millions of its customers: phone numbers, duration of calls, routing information and sometimes the location of the callers. Thanks to Snowden, we also know that unknown volumes of like information are being extracted from Internet and computer companies, including Microsoft, Yahoo, Google, Facebook, PalTalk, AOL, Skype, YouTube and Apple.
The first thing to note about these data is that a mere generation ago, they did not exist. They are a new power in our midst, flowing from new technology, waiting to be picked up; and power, as always, creates temptation, especially for the already powerful. Our cellphones track our whereabouts. Our communications pass through centralized servers and are saved and kept for a potential eternity in storage banks, from which they can be recovered and examined. Our purchases and contacts and illnesses and entertainments are tracked and agglomerated. If we are arrested, even our DNA can be taken and stored by the state. Today, alongside each one of us, there exists a second, electronic self, created in part by us, in part by others. This other self has become de facto public property, owned chiefly by immense data-crunching corporations, which use it for commercial purposes. Now government is reaching its hand into those corporations for its own purposes, creating a brand-new domain of the state-corporate complex.
Surveillance of people on this scale turns basic libertiesabove all the Fourth Amendment, which protects citizens against unreasonable search and seizureinto a dead letter. Government officials, it is true, assure us that they will never pull the edges of the net tight. They tell us that although they could know everything about us, they wont decide to. Theyll let the information sit unexamined in the electronic vaults. But history, whether of our country or others, teaches that only a fool would place faith in such assurances. What one president refrains from doing the next will do; what is left undone in peacetime is done when a crisis comes.
The executive branch offers a similar assurance about its claimed right to kill American and foreign citizens at its sole discretion. But to accept such assurances as the guarantee of basic liberties would be to throw away bedrock principles of our constitutional order. If there is any single political idea that deserves to be called quintessentially American, it is the principle that government power must be balanced and checked by other government power, which is why federal power is balanced by state power and is itself divided into three branches.
The officialsmost notably President Obamahave assured us that this system is intact, that the surveillance programs are under very strict supervision by all three branches of government, in Obamas words. But the briefest examination of the record rebuts the claim...
Increasingly, the American people are like this school of fish in the moments before the net is pulled up. The net in question is of course the Internet and associated instruments of data collection, and the fishermen are corporations and the government. That is, to use the more common metaphor, we have come to live alongside the machinery of a turnkey tyranny. As we now know, thanks to the courageous whistleblower Edward Snowden, the National Security Agency has been secretly ordering Verizon to sweep up and hand over all the metadata from the phone calls of millions of its customers: phone numbers, duration of calls, routing information and sometimes the location of the callers. Thanks to Snowden, we also know that unknown volumes of like information are being extracted from Internet and computer companies, including Microsoft, Yahoo, Google, Facebook, PalTalk, AOL, Skype, YouTube and Apple.
The first thing to note about these data is that a mere generation ago, they did not exist. They are a new power in our midst, flowing from new technology, waiting to be picked up; and power, as always, creates temptation, especially for the already powerful. Our cellphones track our whereabouts. Our communications pass through centralized servers and are saved and kept for a potential eternity in storage banks, from which they can be recovered and examined. Our purchases and contacts and illnesses and entertainments are tracked and agglomerated. If we are arrested, even our DNA can be taken and stored by the state. Today, alongside each one of us, there exists a second, electronic self, created in part by us, in part by others. This other self has become de facto public property, owned chiefly by immense data-crunching corporations, which use it for commercial purposes. Now government is reaching its hand into those corporations for its own purposes, creating a brand-new domain of the state-corporate complex.
Surveillance of people on this scale turns basic libertiesabove all the Fourth Amendment, which protects citizens against unreasonable search and seizureinto a dead letter. Government officials, it is true, assure us that they will never pull the edges of the net tight. They tell us that although they could know everything about us, they wont decide to. Theyll let the information sit unexamined in the electronic vaults. But history, whether of our country or others, teaches that only a fool would place faith in such assurances. What one president refrains from doing the next will do; what is left undone in peacetime is done when a crisis comes.
The executive branch offers a similar assurance about its claimed right to kill American and foreign citizens at its sole discretion. But to accept such assurances as the guarantee of basic liberties would be to throw away bedrock principles of our constitutional order. If there is any single political idea that deserves to be called quintessentially American, it is the principle that government power must be balanced and checked by other government power, which is why federal power is balanced by state power and is itself divided into three branches.
The officialsmost notably President Obamahave assured us that this system is intact, that the surveillance programs are under very strict supervision by all three branches of government, in Obamas words. But the briefest examination of the record rebuts the claim...
<snip>
More: http://www.thenation.com/article/174889/americas-surveillance-net#axzz2XBLcJHyq
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Internet anti-Greenwald agitators are playing some folks for Fools [View all]
cthulu2016
Jun 2013
OP
Taking into consideration what they are trying to defend, lying is the only option left for them.
idwiyo
Jun 2013
#5
Indeed. I'm thinking Greenwald finally figured out his civil liability, and might have
msanthrope
Jun 2013
#6
I don't think he has a license to lawyer anywhere, and more importantly, that obligation you
msanthrope
Jun 2013
#68
But he never said he knew who he was, did he? He did work with him. Snowden had an internet handle
sabrina 1
Jun 2013
#46
I thought it was slang for "blind obedient groupies". Don't they like follow the bus around
Dragonfli
Jun 2013
#54
I see an issue with an out of control surveillance industry merged with an out of control
Dragonfli
Jun 2013
#57
Do you ever read? The news is all over the world, men who worked directly for NSA
Dragonfli
Jun 2013
#59
Of course it was pre-planned. All Whistle Blowers pre-plan how to get the information they have
sabrina 1
Jun 2013
#47
Actual, although it was 'secret' up to recently, there is a ruling by the FISA court itself that
sabrina 1
Jun 2013
#70
He didn't, as far as I can tell. I looked it up on Twitter just a little while ago.
Hissyspit
Jun 2013
#15
Where did you get this information from? With no credible source to back up your
sabrina 1
Jun 2013
#48
It's sad some on DU can't see ratfucking when it happens. And for you to use the term
KittyWampus
Jun 2013
#21
these people are still convinced this is some nefarious plot cooked up by karl rove..
frylock
Jun 2013
#72
What is the root of your apparent beastiality fixation? Do you even know who ratfuckers were?
Dragonfli
Jun 2013
#44
Yes! "The press has special protections in democracies and for very good reason."
Demit
Jun 2013
#61
Perhaps there is something else about Greenwald that inspires such hatred and derision?
The Link
Jun 2013
#25
Personally, I thought it smelled like a big ol' steamin' cup o' frantic. No surprise though.
cherokeeprogressive
Jun 2013
#30