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(26,355 posts)
108. That's what happens when whistleblowers don't have internal channels to go through.
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 11:01 AM
Jun 2013

Manning didn't. Drake and the other previous NSA whistleblowers tried the channels and got nowhere. Snowden didn't feel like he had channels to go through.

And when Snowden saw what happened to Manning, what did you think he was going to do? He's not stupid.

If the penalty for disclosing secrets is a year in jail, and it's normal jail, and that jail's run professionally, and not a gladiator school, or an Abu Ghraib, then maybe more people like Snowden would be happy to suck it up and serve a sentence.

But when Manning gets supermaxed, Jose Padilla gets tortured, countless other prisoners are routinely subjected to beatings, rape, random shankings, guards instigating prisoners to assault each other, deprivation of medical care, etc. etc. etc., one concludes that America's prison system has turned into medieval dungeons, and you'd have to be crazy to allow yourself to be subjected to that.

That is part of it nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #1
yep, it makes sending him back MUCH harder... mike_c Jun 2013 #3
Good point. MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #4
It would violate Article 3 of the Geneva Convention. OnyxCollie Jun 2013 #138
He left because he hates USA pscot Jun 2013 #2
Those that want life to be easy would agree. Kill Snowden and life goes back to wonderfulness. rhett o rick Jun 2013 #122
I have my own kill list pscot Jun 2013 #127
Is that stupid gecko on the list? rhett o rick Jun 2013 #129
Probably indiscrete pscot Jun 2013 #130
You call them "owners". Not "OUr Authoritarian Overlords"? nm rhett o rick Jun 2013 #132
Torturing people does tend to have a negative reaction Arctic Dave Jun 2013 #5
Torture is a tool of terrorists. Scare the shit out of the population for control purposes. nm rhett o rick Jun 2013 #133
It didn't help. Nt xchrom Jun 2013 #6
I think so. I know if I were in his shoes I would have gotten Autumn Jun 2013 #7
Good guess. dipsydoodle Jun 2013 #8
Obviously Snowden learned from Manning. gulliver Jun 2013 #9
If this keeps up, they're going to have to add another option MattFromKY Jun 2013 #11
Not to mention logic! n/t mhatrw Jun 2013 #23
Wikileaks tortured Manning? sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #46
Obviously you know more than I do nineteen50 Jun 2013 #140
Do the American people ProSense Jun 2013 #10
Of course. Manning's torture was publicized. MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #16
"But Romney would likely have been much worse." ProSense Jun 2013 #22
OK, I give up. MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #25
"I'm wrong, and I'm sorry" nt tridim Jun 2013 #29
Because Manning needed to be held without trial for years? MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #34
You live in Cuckooville. nt tridim Jun 2013 #36
Yes, but do you actually have anything of substance to add? DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #38
You live in Denial. OnyxCollie Jun 2013 #142
You forgot the drugs Hydra Jun 2013 #77
Nakedness as well, I think? sibelian Jun 2013 #107
Yup, and keeping him on suicide watch when he wasn't suicidal Hydra Jun 2013 #117
Soldiers without due process all the while using them as a shield of spreading freedom. Nothing midnight Jun 2013 #116
Ya, I love how they say we need to "Support our troops" Hydra Jun 2013 #118
It really is the only thing to say-bring them home... midnight Jun 2013 #119
If they let him sleep at all, that is. Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #152
Well he isn't wrong. sibelian Jun 2013 #111
Who was president when Manning was being tortured? sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #50
And here we see the failure of the Democratic Party. Coccydynia Jun 2013 #55
I imagine that was the main reason. n/t JimDandy Jun 2013 #12
That's funny. Your always coming up with the craziest consiracy theories. What okaawhatever Jun 2013 #13
Bradley Manning's treatment was cruel and inhuman, UN torture chief rules MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #17
Stick in the mud. East Coast Pirate Jun 2013 #44
Ed Pilkington evidently suffers from a reading comprehension problem. The UN struggle4progress Jun 2013 #54
Thanks for that. I did remember reading something about it, and I wasn't sure if it okaawhatever Jun 2013 #151
The 2011 report is titled struggle4progress Jun 2013 #160
So technically it was not torture RVN VET Jun 2013 #166
No, he wasn't held in solitary; and it's been clear since charges were filed in early July 2010 that struggle4progress Jun 2013 #167
In early 2011, our President declared Manning to be guilty MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #169
Manning has pleaded guilty without any concession from the prosecution struggle4progress Jun 2013 #170
You should be disgusted by your post. Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #148
I wonder if people really believe he was tortured michigandem58 Jun 2013 #14
The UN says... MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #18
Feel free to volunteer for 9 months of what Manning endured. Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #149
I'm sorry michigandem58 Jun 2013 #154
The UN, and the rest of the world, disagrees. Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #155
Manning was tortured? Seriously? lamp_shade Jun 2013 #15
Sadly. MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #19
Apparently it's common knowledge in Cuckoo-Ville. tridim Jun 2013 #21
And at the UN. MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #24
I respect the UN, but not that particular opinion. nt tridim Jun 2013 #27
And on what basis do you reject that opinion? MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #32
It makes Obama look bad Maedhros Jun 2013 #136
so you pick and choose burnodo Jun 2013 #64
No, I'm not lockstep with the UN, or anything in life. tridim Jun 2013 #73
Even the Obama Administration? morningfog Jun 2013 #126
LOL NorthCarolina Jun 2013 #162
Just to make sure I understand your position LondonReign2 Jun 2013 #112
Apparently. Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #153
tridim has left the thread LondonReign2 Jun 2013 #168
What? sibelian Jun 2013 #109
WFT indeed. tridim Jun 2013 #113
:) sibelian Jun 2013 #121
Your responses are deteriorating into the childish range. nm rhett o rick Jun 2013 #124
ignorance of the facts doesn't make the facts less true nashville_brook Jun 2013 #31
How can you say that to those that have worked so hard to craft their denial bubble. nm rhett o rick Jun 2013 #125
Were you living in a cave? n/t backscatter712 Jun 2013 #114
No of course not. Now go back inside and close the door. nm rhett o rick Jun 2013 #123
That has been the DU meme for a while know krawhitham Jun 2013 #147
Ya think? mhatrw Jun 2013 #20
It had to have. MotherPetrie Jun 2013 #26
It did not encourage Snowden not to spy. It is becoming oblivious Snowden is not Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #28
spying is giving/selling information to an enemy -- guess that makes you an enemy of the state nashville_brook Jun 2013 #30
Check the definition of spying again, it is exactly what scumbag Snowden did. Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #33
"Scumbag". bvar22 Jun 2013 #35
Nope, it is a description of Snowden with a better choice of words. Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #39
I think they think it makes them sound cop like Dragonfli Jun 2013 #40
Authoritarians tblue Jun 2013 #49
it's bound to happen, what with all those rats jumping from the republican garbage scow. frylock Jun 2013 #57
Well, that's all very nice and everything, but do you have something more than your own opinion on sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #56
The American people is the enemy of the state the government fears most. n/t backscatter712 Jun 2013 #115
OT, but are you by any chance a LEO? Dragonfli Jun 2013 #37
It's the "dehumanizing stares" OnyxCollie Jun 2013 #145
"It is becoming oblivious" best subconscious error today. Warren Stupidity Jun 2013 #63
K&R DeSwiss Jun 2013 #41
So scary tblue Jun 2013 #45
The Terrorists. :-| n/t DeSwiss Jun 2013 #62
Orwell nailed it Hydra Jun 2013 #80
There really is no public support. DeSwiss Jun 2013 #94
Bradley Manning is military Omaha Steve Jun 2013 #42
Not that different Demeter Jun 2013 #60
Torture is torture whether you are in the military or a civilian. n/t totodeinhere Jun 2013 #69
Torture in the civilian world is hard to get by with Omaha Steve Jun 2013 #75
Not true. The military has to go by the Uniform Code of Military Justice. totodeinhere Jun 2013 #99
One HERO exposed the heinousness that we're capable of...... DeSwiss Jun 2013 #95
Who would stay? tblue Jun 2013 #43
Change you can beLIEve in blkmusclmachine Jun 2013 #47
Hahahaha! Couldn't be all the TSSI stuff he stole to give to Russia, China, etc. DevonRex Jun 2013 #48
also why go to CHina if you have a problem with torture ? JI7 Jun 2013 #52
Or Russia. Sheee-it. Ole Vladimir knows a thing or two about how to torture personally. DevonRex Jun 2013 #66
Some people say Snowden should have stuck around and faced the music MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #53
AFAIC there's no chance in hell a spy will "stay and face the music." Neither DevonRex Jun 2013 #79
How do you define a whistleblower? nm MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #83
These will help you. DevonRex Jun 2013 #96
He would not be tortured. He would have due process treestar Jun 2013 #84
Like Manning? nt MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #85
1, Manning in in the military and subject to that system treestar Jun 2013 #91
The UN said it was torture MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #92
I suppose so. treestar Jun 2013 #97
No, the UN never said Manning was tortured struggle4progress Jun 2013 #146
If you believe that you are extremely naive. n/t totodeinhere Jun 2013 #100
Whoa, whoa, whoa! You actually think Barack Obama would be OK with TORTURE? Pterodactyl Jun 2013 #51
Don't be silly. Obama does not control the military. L0oniX Jun 2013 #143
Huh? I thought he was commander in chief. When did he lose control? Pterodactyl Jun 2013 #171
LOL ...well maybe he just doesn't control the torture squad and Guantanamo. L0oniX Jun 2013 #172
He was certainly in control when we killed Osama Bin Laden. But then not in control of Gitmo. Pterodactyl Jun 2013 #173
Good point dflprincess Jun 2013 #58
It would have encouraged me to leave... truebluegreen Jun 2013 #59
I was just mentioning it to my wife tonight MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #72
As luck would have it-- truebluegreen Jun 2013 #74
May I ask where you went? MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #76
No problem. truebluegreen Jun 2013 #82
Sounds like a great adventure! MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #86
It has been. Thanks. truebluegreen Jun 2013 #93
And this is what happens in countries felix_numinous Jun 2013 #150
I agree. truebluegreen Jun 2013 #156
Manning's torture and NSA spying and Gitmo and all have made me seriously consider leaving, too Demeter Jun 2013 #61
Greenwald reported that Snowden considered both Manning and Assange, what they did and didn't do Warren Stupidity Jun 2013 #65
If true, then the White House's work to terrorize whistleblowers has backfired MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #68
Probably made them more determined too. JDPriestly Jun 2013 #67
True. As a manager, I've found that nothing obliterates morale worse than MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #70
Really an excellent, thought-provoking post, thanks. nt navarth Jun 2013 #71
What or who encouraged him to take all the documents about US spying on foreign countries? pnwmom Jun 2013 #78
You would stay and end up tortured? Hydra Jun 2013 #81
He could have left and only taken documents related to internal US surveillance, pnwmom Jun 2013 #87
A fairer answer than I've seen lately Hydra Jun 2013 #88
I think pretty much everybody agrees, if about nothing else, pnwmom Jun 2013 #89
Highly profitable Hydra Jun 2013 #90
Snowden did not take documents regarding the U.S. spying on other countries Maedhros Jun 2013 #137
Not true. He also took documents related to spying on governments. pnwmom Jun 2013 #157
You're referring to the UK spying on Medvedev. [n/t] Maedhros Jun 2013 #159
I'm sure it did. JVS Jun 2013 #98
Tsk, Tsk, Manny. It's called "Enhanced Interrogation". Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #101
My bad, sorry. MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #104
Post removed Post removed Jun 2013 #105
"Conjugal visits" for prison rape, "Drug holidays" for withholding of medication from prisoners. n/t backscatter712 Jun 2013 #110
And "Liberal" for politicians that support indefinite detention, signature strikes, Maedhros Jun 2013 #139
I don't know what he was thinking, ZombieHorde Jun 2013 #102
I thought the info wasn't really secret? morningfog Jun 2013 #128
Seems highly probable. sibelian Jun 2013 #106
That's what happens when whistleblowers don't have internal channels to go through. backscatter712 Jun 2013 #108
and those internal channels hand out punitive punishment. L0oniX Jun 2013 #144
Snowden DID. And if he didn't want to go through agency channels, pnwmom Jun 2013 #158
He probably never heard of Jose Padilla. Octafish Jun 2013 #120
It implies he was tortured in the first place... Pelican Jun 2013 #131
This message was self-deleted by its author felix_numinous Jun 2013 #134
if he had gone to jail like Manning Enrique Jun 2013 #135
Torture is done to intimidate felix_numinous Jun 2013 #141
No matter what you think of Snowden, you have to admit he is an extremely JDPriestly Jun 2013 #161
Next you'll expect me to believe... Orsino Jun 2013 #163
The more you tighten your grip, the more leakers will slip through your fingers (nt) Babel_17 Jun 2013 #164
friend told me warrprayer Jun 2013 #165
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