General Discussion

beerandjesus

(1,301 posts)

86. Exactly. If there's one thing about this whole discussion that pisses me off...

Tue Jun 25, 2013, 02:00 PM

Jun 2013

...it's the presupposition on the part of the Gore apologists that the Democrats are entitled to our votes.

After all, if you don't assume that the Democrats are entitled to our votes, you can't argue that Nader somehow 'stole' those same votes from the Democrats. This is rank hubris, and frankly, the Republicans know better than to shit all over their base the way the Democrats, in 2000, had spent the previous 8 years doing.

You want to make this about a few thousand votes? Anyone on here remember the PMRC? A hell of a lot of people my age (40) do, and I'll bet the memories of that ignominious episode cost Al Gore a lot more votes from my generation than Nader could have dreamed of.

You want to make this about revisionism? Al Gore now is a hell of a lot better (i.e. more liberal) than Al Gore circa 2000. I would happily vote for Gore 2013. Gore 2000, not so much.

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Ralph Nader ABSOLUTELY Helped Cost President Gore the Election in 2000 despite these revisionists [View all] LaydeeBug Jun 2013 OP

NH and their 4 votes would have put Gore over 270 without Florida. graham4anything Jun 2013 #1

This is very true, but that doesn't mean that Nader had nothing to do with abetting the theft in LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #3

It has been true since 8pm eastern on election day 2000 graham4anything Jun 2013 #14

ummmm...I agree, and then, not so much... LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #19

Yes, if all the votes were there and counted, Al Gore won a landslide (100,000 votes in Florida???) graham4anything Jun 2013 #26

Now I am just getting confused, please clear things up for me A Simple Game Jun 2013 #96

Ralph Nader himself made sure that a 3rd party vote will never interfere with the democratic party graham4anything Jun 2013 #100

There are lots of other possible scenarios riqster Jun 2013 #6

Exactly! Thank you! eom BlueCaliDem Jun 2013 #130

Exactly. They can push all the other reasons why Gore lost but the Main Cha Jun 2013 #137

So what? Nader was a single individual, advocating for progressivism, pnwmom Jun 2013 #62

No. He wasn't. He was a wolf in sheep's clothing and he wanted BUSH over Gore and said as much LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #66

We have been paying for nader's arrogance since 2000, and it isn't getting better still_one Jun 2013 #2

absolutely. And I will not suffer revisionists. nt LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #5

LOL G_j Jun 2013 #28

Oh, I know. These people are a *scream* LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #29

the Congressional Black Caucus: G_j Jun 2013 #36

Thank you for posting that. Facts matter. Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #49

+1 he doesn't sound "clearly sympathetic" to me. he sounds like he blocked them. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #67

I cried when I watched this as it was happening. LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #70

but that was nader's fault too! noiretextatique Jun 2013 #42

Nope...he just helped them. LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #47

THEY did not need any help...pleae try to grasp this noiretextatique Jun 2013 #53

and yet, HE helped them anyway..please try to grasp that. nt LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #54

that's just beyond idiotic noiretextatique Jun 2013 #94

Nice try. No dice. LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #115

that's heaven05 Jun 2013 #93

nader is mostly irrelevant noiretextatique Jun 2013 #95

Yes, thanks for reminding me there's even more to be pissed about. I shouldn't okaawhatever Jun 2013 #78

+1000 Tarheel_Dem Jun 2013 #76

In the other thread, I argued that Nader cost Gore the election. Being a true contrarian... Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #4

Without Nader, there would've been a President Gore. Waiting For Everyman Jun 2013 #7

^^this^^ nt LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #71

R#4 & K n/t UTUSN Jun 2013 #8

It's kind of strange that your own OP contradicts yourself, but... Bonobo Jun 2013 #9

and of course, the registered dems that voted for bush get a free pass frylock Jun 2013 #12

That too. nt Bonobo Jun 2013 #13

There are many wolves in sheep's clothing, pity you don't see Nader as such LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #24

Link or it didn't happen. Nt Bonobo Jun 2013 #25

Link to what or it did not happen? Nader saying he wanted Bush over Gore? Would that help you? LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #61

you're the revisionist in this scenario.. frylock Jun 2013 #31

Nope. I'm not. Pity you can't remember the truth, but I lived it LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #63

yeah, the rest of us were in suspended animation under rocks. only *you* 'lived it'. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #69

let's entertain for just one second your fantasy that ralph nader single-handedly cost gore.. frylock Jun 2013 #79

they sure as hell do noiretextatique Jun 2013 #43

It's even more strange that the contradiction is what happened, but considering back pedaling and LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #21

Honey? ohheckyeah Jun 2013 #48

Terms of endearment are not always meant for condescension LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #52

No, it doesn't. gcomeau Jun 2013 #104

tell that to the 100,000+ registered dems in FL that voted for bush.. frylock Jun 2013 #10

What gives... gcomeau Jun 2013 #105

he has superhuman powers! frylock Jun 2013 #107

Now you're just being a child... gcomeau Jun 2013 #108

yeh, that's what i'm doing... singlehandedly!!112! frylock Jun 2013 #109

Way to effectively reinforce the point. Bravo. -eom gcomeau Jun 2013 #112

that's me. the one with the childlike world view.. frylock Jun 2013 #113

Nader forced Clinton, Gore and Obama to support trade deals and H-1b visas markiv Jun 2013 #11

If Gore wanted the votes of the left, he should have appealed to the left. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #15

wrong, he needed support of corporatists, and obedience from the left markiv Jun 2013 #17

The bottom line. IMHO. marybourg Jun 2013 #20

Gore *GOT* the votes from the left because he WON THE FUCKING ELECTION LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #27

if gore won, then what's you're fucking beef with nader voters? frylock Jun 2013 #32

I have no fucking beef with Nader voters. I have a fucking beef with Nader LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #58

Wait. So now you're saying Gore won? leftstreet Jun 2013 #35

He got the votes of the left and won. But, the left didn't vote for him so he lost? Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #55

Holy convoluted Batman! Your post ASSumes the votes were actually counted... LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #65

So, what is it? It's Naders fault the votes weren't counted? Or, the people who did the counting? Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #75

This is CT and has no business in GD. nm rhett o rick Jun 2013 #16

I think using the word "helped" makes this a fair and valid argument. NCTraveler Jun 2013 #18

katherine harris, jeb bush and SCOTUS cost gore the election noiretextatique Jun 2013 #22

Hammer meets nail! Posts like yours are why need individual Rec function. Thanks! Melinda Jun 2013 #38

+1000 noiretextatique Jun 2013 #40

Yep, Nader didn't have caging lists, unverified electronic voting machines, the Supreme Court... arcane1 Jun 2013 #129

Katherine Harris, SCOTUS et al, stole it with Nader driving the getaway car... LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #60

bullshit noiretextatique Jun 2013 #81

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #23

Nader couldn't take votes from Gore if people ohheckyeah Jun 2013 #50

Pat Buchanan took more votes from Bush in Florida, than Nader took. Fuddnik Jun 2013 #87

yes he did Skittles Jun 2013 #30

Why did so many people vote for Nader when they knew it would be a tight race... Jarla Jun 2013 #33

Good question. SunSeeker Jun 2013 #91

or the people who voted for Nader did. Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #34

Ugh. Apophis Jun 2013 #37

Honestly, I don't give a shit. MattSh Jun 2013 #39

False. PDittie Jun 2013 #41

Hahaha a *blog*. Quick! I'll link to a blog that says he stole it single-handedly. LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #68

That's not a rebuttal. PDittie Jun 2013 #101

Yes it was LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #114

The Centrist, Anti-LABOR, Free Trading, Deregulating Clinton Administration CREATED Nader. bvar22 Jun 2013 #44

Bullshit. Nader was around & seeking POTUS long before Bill Clinton was ever elected anything. nt LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #72

I didn't mean created him in the biblical sense. bvar22 Jun 2013 #85

So H. Ross Perot, who got 19% of the vote, unfairly and cravenly deprived G.H.W.Bush of his rightful byeya Jun 2013 #45

And many on the right said Clinton was not "legitimately" president thanks to Perot's 19%. arcane1 Jun 2013 #131

After 13 years, GTF over it. Daemonaquila Jun 2013 #46

Exactly. If there's one thing about this whole discussion that pisses me off... beerandjesus Jun 2013 #86

No doubt bobduca Jun 2013 #139

This is material designed to absolve Republican theft and Democratic cowardice. Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #51

+1000 noiretextatique Jun 2013 #57

^ This. Poll_Blind Jun 2013 #136

Those instances happened AFTER Ralph drove the get away car on the theft of democracy LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #140

when democratic politicians lose votes to third parties it is the democratic politicians' fault, not liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #56

These Nader threads are pathetic. Comrade Grumpy Jun 2013 #59

they know voters are unhappy and want to make sure we know if we don't vote the way we are told liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #80

You've completely missed the point. Egalitarian Thug Jun 2013 #64

+1 HiPointDem Jun 2013 #73

It seems you're missing the point. LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #74

First, you don't seem to understand the basic concepts on which our government Egalitarian Thug Jun 2013 #116

Oh no, I do. YOU don't seem to understand the letter of the law and the spirit of those laws... LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #117

Rhetoric. Egalitarian Thug Jun 2013 #120

Awww...you even cut and pasted, and yet I've still used the term properly. LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #121

Hey, no problem. If getting your righteous outrage on let's you pretend it's all Egalitarian Thug Jun 2013 #142

exactly...which i why i call them "democrats against democracy" noiretextatique Jun 2013 #84

Blaming Nader achieves nothing. Maedhros Jun 2013 #88

The word "helped" but NOT cause Politicalboi Jun 2013 #77

Ding Ding Ding iandhr Jun 2013 #82

100% agree SCantiGOP Jun 2013 #83

Exactly. I fear many on DU are happy to repeat that mistake. nt SunSeeker Jun 2013 #89

It was President/Senator/Congressman Nader OnyxCollie Jun 2013 #90

Nope. It was candidate Nader saying there's no difference between Gore and Bush. nt LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #118

All I can say is... mikeysnot Jun 2013 #92

Note to Nader and all other supporters of 3rd parties: Jamaal510 Jun 2013 #97

Both parties have been bought by the 1%. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #99

How about prosecuting illegal wars, OnyxCollie Jun 2013 #103

A friggin' MEN Jamaal510 great white snark Jun 2013 #110

Bottom line: SCOTUS unconscionably stopped the recount. Ralph yam what he yam and that's all struggle4progress Jun 2013 #98

A dumb electorate cost Gore the election Auggie Jun 2013 #102

I HATE RALPH NADER trueblue2007 Jun 2013 #106

NO I HATE HIM MORE bobduca Jun 2013 #138

Pope of the PROFESSIONAL "Left". I've been asking his gatekeepers since 2009 who. . . Aunt Bold Ire8 Nov 2015 #146

Sad but goddamn true. n/t AverageJoe90 Jun 2013 #111

The premise of your OP proves your last sentence. n/t flvegan Jun 2013 #119

Yup Harris had no role in this nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #122

I am wondering where I said Katherine Harris has no role in this. LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #124

Sorry if I care not for the two minutes of hate nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #125

um...ok. Whatevs. LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #127

Hey, they are predictable nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #128

I've changed my opinion on the whole thing over the years. Skip Intro Jun 2013 #123

If true so what? Do you think Gore was entitled to those votes? Demo_Chris Jun 2013 #126

A future that never happens is hard to defend. The Nader lovers will hit you with every bluestate10 Jun 2013 #132

Boo fucking hoo RetroLounge Jun 2013 #133

Post removed Post removed Jun 2013 #134

Exactly, LaydeeBug.. righteous rant! Cha Jun 2013 #135

Oh Good Lord, didn't you watch Fahrenheit 9/11 for the clip of George and Jeb when W says Fire Walk With Me Jun 2013 #141

Revisionists. LWolf Jun 2013 #143

Oh my. sure. whatever. nt LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #144

Our War on Iraq, Nader's first salvo in his strategy of Disaster Anti-Capitalism Aunt Bold Ire8 Nov 2015 #145