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Junkdrawer

(27,993 posts)
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 02:55 PM Jun 2013

I think President Obama just said that Keystone XL WILL be approved.... [View all]

But Junk, you say, the President just said that Keystone XL should not be approved if it will increase Greenhouse Gas Emissions. How can you facilitate the most carbon intensive fuel on the planet and NOT increase Greenhouse Gas Emissions?

Let's look at what the President said exactly:

...

Here’s what he said:

I know there’s been … a lot of controversy surrounding the proposed Keystone pipeline that would carry oil from Canadian tar sands down to refineries in the Gulf. And the State Department is going through the final stages of evaluating the proposal. That’s how it’s always been done. But I do want to be clear: Allowing the Keystone pipeline to be built requires a finding that doing so would be in our nation’s interest. And our national interest will be served only if this project does not significantly exacerbate the problem of carbon pollution. The net effects of the pipeline’s impact on our climate will be absolutely critical to determining whether this project is allowed to go forward.


It seems obvious that Keystone XL would significantly increase carbon emissions by encouraging development and facilitating transport of the dirtiest fossil fuel on earth — tar-sands oil. But in its draft environmental impact statement on the pipeline, the State Department asserted otherwise.

The U.S. EPA says State is wrong and argues that Keystone would notably boost greenhouse gas emissions. Even Canadian tar-sands boosters say Keystone is needed in order to increase oil production: “Long-term, we do need Keystone to be able to grow the volumes in Canada,” Steve Laut, president of big oil company Canadian Natural Resources Ltd., said last month.

....

http://grist.org/news/obama-will-ok-keystone-only-if-it-wont-increase-carbon-emissions/


So I believe he's signaling that he's going to go with the State Department on this. And the DOS has been saying that the pipeline may actually reduce greenhouse gasses. How? Well....

...

How would the construction of the Keystone XL pipeline affect production
of Canadian oil sands?

Some suggest that the Keystone XL pipeline would not
substantially influence either the rate or magnitude of oil extraction activities in
Canada or the overall volume of crude oil transported to and refined in the United
States. This finding is supported by DOS in both the August 2011 Final EIS and
the March 2013 Draft SEIS, which states, “construction of the proposed Project
is unlikely to have a substantial impact on the development rate of the [Canadian]
oil sands, and that even when considering the incremental cost of non-pipeline
transport options, should the proposed Project be denied
, a 0.4 to 0.6 percent
reduction in [Canadian] production could occur by 2030.”37 This view is based
on the assumption that Canadian oil sands crudes would find other ways to
market, including the construction of new pipelines, the switching of existing
pipelines, or the use of tankers, rail cars, or trucks. The choice of transport could
also affect the levels of GHG emissions in the sector (e.g., some suggest that the
life-cycle GHG emissions from the sector would increase if rail cars and trucks
were substituted for pipelines).
Others contend that the lack of transport
infrastructure and the price discount it occasions has already affected production
of the oil sands crudes and, if continued, would further depress investment and
development in the region, significantly curtailing the sector’s GHG emissions.38

...

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42537.pdf


IF you assume that the oil will make it to market one way or another, then a pipeline beats, say, trucking it or shipping it.

Clever, no?
56 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I thought the same thing. Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #1
He gave the dogs a bone! Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #2
Here is one way it could reduce gasses: The Straight Story Jun 2013 #3
Let's assume that's the case. Would that be bad? Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #5
Yes and no The Straight Story Jun 2013 #12
"Because we know it would be a lie..." You'll have to forgive me, but I stopped there. n/t Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #14
That's fine, you don't have to believe it for it to be true (nt) The Straight Story Jun 2013 #15
True? You just made it up. It most certainly is NOT true. Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #16
of course he will. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #4
that's what I heard. cali Jun 2013 #6
Norman Goldman predicted that would happen a few days ago. nt rdharma Jun 2013 #7
THE Norman Goldman? Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #11
Yup! THE Norman Goldman.... Where justice is served. rdharma Jun 2013 #20
Sweet! Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #22
I hope he's wrong......... rdharma Jun 2013 #23
Has he weighed in on Zimmerman? Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #25
Yup! He's "weighed in"....... but no predictions on verdict. rdharma Jun 2013 #29
Agreed. Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #32
Ignore his words. Let's focus on other outcomes that might really, really piss us off. Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #8
right, because you can take his words and promises to the bank..on a parallel planet you can..nt xiamiam Jun 2013 #50
Meybe so, maybe not. In the meantime, let the White House know what YOU think! LongTomH Jun 2013 #9
The WH doesn't give the teeniest tiniest goddamn what we think about this. MotherPetrie Jun 2013 #26
Did he Mention fredamae Jun 2013 #10
Did you listen to his speech? Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #13
No---very little of it fredamae Jun 2013 #17
Okay. Then let me answer your question: Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #18
You're so helpful! Hydra Jun 2013 #33
I suppose there are those who come to DU to find people to watch tv for them. Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #42
You missed an opportunity Hydra Jun 2013 #43
I don't speak for the President, so I could not care less how I affected his image in your eyes. Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #47
Oh, that clears it up then Hydra Jun 2013 #52
So, instead of filling a person in on what was actually said, Jamastiene Jun 2013 #46
I responded to snark with snark. Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #48
"Shit happens." NealK Jun 2013 #51
I share these concerns. avaistheone1 Jun 2013 #24
Nope. And that's the tell... Junkdrawer Jun 2013 #55
Sometimes it's what they don't say... fredamae Jun 2013 #56
Exacerbate ... GeorgeGist Jun 2013 #19
The lesser of two evils. GeorgeGist Jun 2013 #21
There's never been any doubt. Obama will do industry's bidding on this. MotherPetrie Jun 2013 #27
All the while saying it's the Green thing to do... Junkdrawer Jun 2013 #28
Yes, he is good at pretense. MotherPetrie Jun 2013 #31
Yep, he never met a Corporation whose water he wouldn't carry. HooptieWagon Jun 2013 #30
More: ProSense Jun 2013 #34
But both sides of any argument are usually able to present "proof" to back up their gateley Jun 2013 #54
Obama had three paths he could choose after winning reelection. BlueStreak Jun 2013 #35
You disagree with everything you said. Everything. Zen Democrat Jun 2013 #36
Please be more specific. BlueStreak Jun 2013 #37
We knew what to expect of the others and that is what we got. This one just cannot be trusted. RILib Jun 2013 #44
Susan Rice Owns $300,000 in TransCanada Stock (Keystone XL Developer) Fire Walk With Me Jun 2013 #38
Sadly, it does sound like that G_j Jun 2013 #39
So do I. Perhaps if the pressure were increased instead of relieved by today's announcement... Junkdrawer Jun 2013 #40
Of course he's going to approve it. Marr Jun 2013 #41
Congratulations! Jamastiene Jun 2013 #45
Which will prevail, individual profit or popular concern with health and safety? 1-Old-Man Jun 2013 #49
According to Mike Papantonio this afternoon, he won't veto it if Cleita Jun 2013 #53
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