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DemocratSinceBirth

(101,840 posts)

149. I can never get past the fact

Reply to GreenStormCloud (Original post)

Tue Jun 25, 2013, 09:01 PM

Jun 2013

I can never get past the fact that the catalyst for these sad events is Zimmerman ignoring protocol and instructions from the police dispatcher and following Trayvon.

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ZIMMERMAN TRIAL: Day 2, Tuesday, June 25. [View all] GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 OP

Crime scene technician taking the stand. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #1

No reaction at all to seeing the body of the kid he shot to death. bunnies Jun 2013 #2

Particularly Zimmerman. Just another day of being subjected to this persecution. pacalo Jun 2013 #7

Yeah. Poor baby. My heart bleeds. bunnies Jun 2013 #11

Apparently Trayvon's mom had to excuse herself a couple of times. nt Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #8

I can imagine. bunnies Jun 2013 #14

no reaction to anything. Just that sad puppy look and blinking KurtNYC Jun 2013 #10

no kidding. bunnies Jun 2013 #13

Thanks for doing this. n/t winter is coming Jun 2013 #3

Any knock knock jokes or other "zingers" today? Erose999 Jun 2013 #4

Not a single bruise on Trayvons hands! bunnies Jun 2013 #5

Medically there is some question whether bruises would have had a chance to form Lurks Often Jun 2013 #20

Fair enough. bunnies Jun 2013 #21

Or it means Zimmerman never got a punch in. Lurks Often Jun 2013 #22

Or he didnt bother to try to. bunnies Jun 2013 #23

The general rule is that one can use deadly force when you are in fear of Lurks Often Jun 2013 #24

Can you prove that he had his head struck against the pavement repeatedly? bunnies Jun 2013 #25

EMT's report Lurks Often Jun 2013 #26

If I have a broken wrist... bunnies Jun 2013 #27

True, but the burden is on the State to prove Lurks Often Jun 2013 #31

Why was none of Zimmy's blood or skin or dna found on Trayvon? uppityperson Jun 2013 #32

Don't know Lurks Often Jun 2013 #35

For all I know, bunnies Jun 2013 #36

It will almost certainly prove to be interesting trial n/t Lurks Often Jun 2013 #38

Do you have any evidence that Z's wounds are self-inflected? GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #43

Hence the use of the word *could* bunnies Jun 2013 #44

I do not consider wild speculaton to be helpful. N/T GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #46

Thanks for joining in the discussion, then. bunnies Jun 2013 #47

it was TRAYVON who was fighting for his life Skittles Jun 2013 #85

That is for the trial to determine. N/T GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #93

Only one person was pursuing another person. grantcart Jun 2013 #224

Hard to do that if you are on your back being beaten. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #226

Yes I understand that. grantcart Jun 2013 #227

I agree with you. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #229

I agree with you. Just Saying Jun 2013 #49

Sorry but the state doesn't have to prove a negative. Just Saying Jun 2013 #56

I don't think I am so much defending Zimmerman as Lurks Often Jun 2013 #66

Wrong, Zimmerman has to prove it was self defense Bjorn Against Jun 2013 #68

Incorrect. If he had invoked the Stand Your Ground defense Lurks Often Jun 2013 #69

It's actually a Use of Deadly Force defense. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #73

And we're right back we're we started Lurks Often Jun 2013 #74

If it only struck once or twice, I would say no. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #76

And now you are back to an unproven theory to base the rest on. uppityperson Jun 2013 #77

You are wrong, all claims of self defense are an affirmative defense Bjorn Against Jun 2013 #88

It seems an open mind would see that an unarmed kid Just Saying Jun 2013 #96

Quite simply none of us have seen all of the evidence. Lurks Often Jun 2013 #103

If Martin thought his life was in jeopardy, he had no right to put Zimmy in a position uppityperson Jun 2013 #108

The fear has to realistic. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #115

Zimmy can shoot Trayvon to stop him, but Trayvon can't knock Zimmy down to stop him? Oh. Kay. uppityperson Jun 2013 #119

Knock down, yes. ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #124

Ah, and there it is. You believe Zimmy's claim about that. uppityperson Jun 2013 #129

Not sure how you jump to any conclusion about what I ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #141

That is not what I said. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #130

And you believe Zimmy's take on that. I don't. No blood or injuries on Trayvon showing he did that. uppityperson Jun 2013 #132

And how did Zimmerman put Martin in fear of his life? Lurks Often Jun 2013 #116

Stalking a 17 yr old on a dark night might do it. There were no injuries on Trayvon's hands that uppityperson Jun 2013 #117

Being followed on a dark night might make you scared, ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #123

I agree, it does. It certainly can. eom uppityperson Jun 2013 #131

Typo in my post may change your agreement. ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #139

You may wish to check the autopsy report. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #134

A 1/4 by 1/8 inch abrasion of unknown age on 17 yr old's 4th finger knuckle. And he supposedly was uppityperson Jun 2013 #174

I have a hard time understanding an armed man fearing for his life. Just Saying Jun 2013 #121

The dispatcher also said that it was a suggestion and not an order Lurks Often Jun 2013 #127

I don't know what the legality of what a dispatcher tells someone. Just Saying Jun 2013 #133

According to the dispatcher's testimony Lurks Often Jun 2013 #136

So what gave Zimmerman the "authority" to follow/stalk somebody with a gun? nomorenomore08 Jun 2013 #153

One needs no authority to follow someone. ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #154

That's why I put "authority" in quotes. As in, what the hell was his justification? nomorenomore08 Jun 2013 #157

Z says he followed Martin because Martin was acting suspicious. ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #159

Suspicious how? Wasn't he just walking back to his father's house from the store? nomorenomore08 Jun 2013 #161

I take it you did not follow the previous media reports? ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #162

But once again, you're leaning heavily on Zimmerman's account of things. nomorenomore08 Jun 2013 #166

I am not leaning on anything. You asked for Z's reasoning. ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #167

Okay. Fair enough. I'm not upset with you or anything. nomorenomore08 Jun 2013 #168

I think that the problem most people have with this case ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #169

Z also said TM looked like he was on drugs and those assholes always get away. uppityperson Jun 2013 #176

nothing but fear and ignorance Skittles Jun 2013 #194

He didn't need any authority Lurks Often Jun 2013 #235

Trayvon went to the store for ice tea and Skittles Skittles Jun 2013 #252

Z quit following when the dispatcher said that it wasn't needed. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #158

I don't believe he stopped following Trayvon. n/t Just Saying Jun 2013 #173

I guess my only question is, why are you so quick to believe Zimmerman's version of things? nomorenomore08 Jun 2013 #152

I didn't say I believe him Lurks Often Jun 2013 #232

Trayvon is dead. Zimmerman killed him. That makes Zimmerman a murderer. Not in question. LiberalAndProud Jun 2013 #240

There is a very important legal difference between murder and killing Lurks Often Jun 2013 #241

This will determine if he will be held accountable. LiberalAndProud Jun 2013 #242

This isn't an auto accident Lurks Often Jun 2013 #243

And your open mind misses the point. LiberalAndProud Jun 2013 #245

"we don't need you to do that" means "get out of the car and see which way Martin had gone"? uppityperson Jun 2013 #175

He got out of the truck BEFORE the dispatcher said that. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #188

"Zimmerman thought the dispatcher meant that he should get out of the car and see which way Martin" uppityperson Jun 2013 #193

That was in testimony yesterday. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #201

"we don't need you to do that" means "get out of the car and see which way Martin had gone"? uppityperson Jun 2013 #204

Take it up with the dispatcher, that was his testimony Lurks Often Jun 2013 #233

Nope. It was your quote. War = Peace. uppityperson Jun 2013 #247

About an armed man fearing for his life. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #146

Please don't use the hands and feet line. Just Saying Jun 2013 #179

My point was that an unarmed man can still be deadly dangerous. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #186

No but most people haven't been trained to do so. Just Saying Jun 2013 #190

Who needed self-defense is for the trial to establish. N/T GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #220

Could you give a link to that FBI statistic? rgbecker Jun 2013 #228

It's the same link I posted. Just Saying Jun 2013 #239

Wrong, the burden of proof is on Zimmerman Bjorn Against Jun 2013 #65

"Small laceration" and "minor bleeding" Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #50

Nothing in the report mentions that he wasn't either Lurks Often Jun 2013 #55

If he had been subjected to severe head trauma, don't you think the EMT report would have noted it? Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #57

You don't understand the law Lurks Often Jun 2013 #60

Zimmerman's story is that Trayvon REPEATEDLY hit his head into the sidewalk. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #63

Now you're speculating Lurks Often Jun 2013 #67

I'm not speculating. I'm going off of Zimmerman's own statement. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #70

Your speculating when you said Lurks Often Jun 2013 #72

Detective Sorino (the investigating officer) believed Zimmerman's wounds were not consistent..... Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #75

You presume an ability to predict the future. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #92

The inherent flaw in such thinking: Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #223

The problem of trying to address something serious in a short space. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #225

We agree on one thing Lurks Often Jun 2013 #106

you DO understand Skittles Jun 2013 #83

If I'm to apply some of the arguments I've seen, I could be a crook and hedgehog Jun 2013 #89

Nice to see you're keeping an open mind and looking at all the evidence n/t Lurks Often Jun 2013 #118

oh goodness qazplm Jun 2013 #137

Zimmerman does not have to wait for Lurks Often Jun 2013 #143

not exactly arely staircase Jun 2013 #79

That's a good point. Captain Stern Jun 2013 #90

or I may truly be afraid of all people with red hair and think they are out to kill me arely staircase Jun 2013 #99

This ^^ Just Saying Jun 2013 #97

Agreed and it will be up to attorney's to convince the jury Lurks Often Jun 2013 #120

problem for zimmerman is that his superficial wounds are NOT consistent arely staircase Jun 2013 #125

Exactly TorchTheWitch Jun 2013 #163

you said it better than me arely staircase Jun 2013 #165

these light abrasions on the back of his head look to me TorchTheWitch Jun 2013 #217

Exactly, thank you. uppityperson Jun 2013 #178

You are the one that clearly does not understand the law Bjorn Against Jun 2013 #91

Thank you. He keeps missing that bit. uppityperson Jun 2013 #110

The only thing not in dispute is that Zimmerman killed Martin. Lurks Often Jun 2013 #122

Yes it remains to be seen, but the fact is the burden of proof is on Zimmerman Bjorn Against Jun 2013 #126

Nothing in the report mentions he wasn't stabbed either, or he didn't have appendicitis or he wasn't uppityperson Jun 2013 #177

In todays trial, pictures were shown that showed several lumps on Z's head. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #113

one thing you forgot to mention noiretextatique Jun 2013 #104

And how do you define serious injuries? Lurks Often Jun 2013 #111

If someone had their head hit on pavement repeatedly, there would be more serious injuries and a few uppityperson Jun 2013 #180

Then we disagree Lurks Often Jun 2013 #237

Experience and training. Good lord, that is why EMTs have mandated training and are licensed, to be uppityperson Jun 2013 #249

I think we're going in circles Lurks Often Jun 2013 #254

i don't have a definition, but i am not intereted in spiltting hairs for a murderder noiretextatique Jun 2013 #253

And is there any evidence that would change your mind? n/t Lurks Often Jun 2013 #255

Was he in fear of life when he grabbed a gun and took off after "suspicious" looking unarmed kid. Hoyt Jun 2013 #54

Please limit comments to things that have happened in the trial. N/T GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #62

Why? We are supposed to only comment about "things that have happened in the trial"?WTF? uppityperson Jun 2013 #78

self del Skittles Jun 2013 #84

In this thread, I am hoping for intelligent discussion of the events of the trial. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #95

Be honest - you are hoping to protect your love of guns and all the seedy crud Hoyt Jun 2013 #114

Did you know I have three dogs? Nevernose Jun 2013 #86

I prefer cheesecake over regular cake and loath frosting. uppityperson Jun 2013 #87

Sometimes I forget to put the toilet seat down. etherealtruth Jun 2013 #94

Trials don't work that way. Evidence is not submitted in opening statements. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #100

Boy, good thing I'm not on the jury then, huh? Nevernose Jun 2013 #221

Yes. N/T GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #222

then he concocted a self-defense scenario noiretextatique Jun 2013 #109

so Trayvon was justified in fighting that gun humping bastard Skittles Jun 2013 #81

"struck on pavement repeadedly" riverwalker Jun 2013 #144

As I have stated a number of times Lurks Often Jun 2013 #147

Which doesn't address what riverwalker is saying. She is talking about the injuries or lack of with uppityperson Jun 2013 #181

Then we disagree Lurks Often Jun 2013 #231

like what? n/t riverwalker Jun 2013 #257

The EMT report describing the wounds Lurks Often Jun 2013 #258

no bruises on martin's hands either arely staircase Jun 2013 #140

An abrasion to a finger on his left hand according to the medical examiner Lurks Often Jun 2013 #145

Yes, it can. I will give you the link. Again. uppityperson Jun 2013 #182

I'll be more clear, I want to hear the testimony of the medical expert Lurks Often Jun 2013 #230

Blood oozes for a period of time after death. Medical fact and I have seen it. Good grief, look uppityperson Jun 2013 #30

I'll defer to the medical experts for the definitive answer Lurks Often Jun 2013 #33

Try this link to ncbi.nlm.nih which says yes, bruises can happen after death uppityperson Jun 2013 #80

no bruises, no broken skin, no trace of blood or zimmerman dna on his hands or under his nails Voice for Peace Jun 2013 #82

= zimmerman is murdering, lying sack of shit eom noiretextatique Jun 2013 #105

Yet some seem so afraid that he's being wrongfully prosecuted. Almost like they identify with him. nomorenomore08 Jun 2013 #156

bingo! eom noiretextatique Jun 2013 #248

No DNA on Trayvon's hands according to opening statements csziggy Jun 2013 #183

The lack of DNA btdt64 Jun 2013 #256

I'll be able to watch it briefly, but I have to leave soon. pacalo Jun 2013 #6

Prosecution is being very methodical. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #9

From a WFTV live-stream blogger: One juror is taking extensive notes. pacalo Jun 2013 #12

Does anyone else think mindfulNJ Jun 2013 #15

Those pictures were taken at the police station, not at the scene. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #17

If Trayvon ever hit or scratched Zimmerman Mariana Jun 2013 #18

I would think so too. N/T GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #19

I'd like to see more about Z's wounds Just Saying Jun 2013 #28

I remember when I was young and fell off my avebury Jun 2013 #29

My son fell into the stove Just Saying Jun 2013 #37

The paramed cleaned up Z at the site. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #40

No offense but Just Saying Jun 2013 #48

Well, we are talking about what has been shown in the trial. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #59

Okay... Just Saying Jun 2013 #101

I'm sure that will be presented in the trial. N/T GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #102

per the paramedics report noiretextatique Jun 2013 #107

But they did clean him up. N/T GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #112

there wasn't much to clean noiretextatique Jun 2013 #250

We will see what evidence is introduced. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #259

Zimmerman did not need stitches yardwork Jun 2013 #52

Thanks Just Saying Jun 2013 #58

She is good. Obviously been in lots of trials before. N/T GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #16

Does anyone understand the law in FL about the fact chelsea0011 Jun 2013 #34

It is pretty much the same everywhere. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #39

It's a grey area Lurks Often Jun 2013 #42

Only if he regains "innocense"...I know, it's REALLY stupid uponit7771 Jun 2013 #98

I think the "surprise witness" is up now. Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #41

Resident of the complex is testifying now. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #45

The defense attorney is starting to get on my nerves. nt avebury Jun 2013 #51

He's trying to make the witness appear confused and mistaken. lpbk2713 Jun 2013 #53

She should focus on what she heard. Not stating which way the sound was moving avebury Jun 2013 #61

Great rebuttal by Prosecutor. He made it clear that avebury Jun 2013 #71

Not reporting the direction of movement does not negate avebury Jun 2013 #64

A couple of issues I am interested in hearing. If Martin was on top of Zimmerman when the shot was Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #128

Yes, pictures were taken at the scene of Z, by the police. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #138

Thanks for the info and explanation. Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #151

For an excellent discussion, see Talkleft.com GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #135

Recently hit my head on a low tree limb HockeyMom Jun 2013 #142

The medics at the scene cleaned him up. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #150

About 6 weeks ago a dog bit my face XemaSab Jun 2013 #212

Legally, you don't have to be seriously wounded before you can defend yourself. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #213

No blood on the ground either? HockeyMom Jun 2013 #218

Or on the grass. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #219

MSNBC showed picture of the body HockeyMom Jun 2013 #251

That's what I'm saying. It just doesn't add up *at all*. nomorenomore08 Jun 2013 #160

I watched CNN for a bit just now and... Catherine Vincent Jun 2013 #148

I can never get past the fact DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2013 #149

Z did not ignore instructions from the dispatcher. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #155

It's not been conclusively established that Zimmerman returned to his truck.... Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #164

Zimmerman has stated that he got out of his truck to get the name of the street. avebury Jun 2013 #170

Excellent point. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #185

I don't find that relevant. He was told by the cops not to get out of his car for any reason. Honeycombe8 Jun 2013 #189

Did you watch HLN After Dark tonight? avebury Jun 2013 #191

I'm recalling the conversation with the police. That's when Z got out of his car. Honeycombe8 Jun 2013 #192

There was a whole discussion about Zimmerman meeting up avebury Jun 2013 #197

No, I'm talking about Z's call WITH the police. Not a dispatcher or someone. It was a male cop Honeycombe8 Jun 2013 #200

That was a call to the non-emergency number, to a dispatcher. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #210

Please show that in the transcript of the call. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #206

That's been bothering me since the beginning csziggy Jun 2013 #196

I like that idea davidpdx Jun 2013 #171

If you can pull up the HLN website they have a daily avebury Jun 2013 #172

Thanks for recommending that davidpdx Jun 2013 #184

Found it! Thanks so much! Rhiannon12866 Jun 2013 #187

The site contains an error of fact. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #195

Thanks so much for pointing that out, I've only dealt with rifles. Rhiannon12866 Jun 2013 #198

Vigelante cop wannabees! avebury Jun 2013 #199

If he persisted in doing this, sooner or later something was bound to happen Rhiannon12866 Jun 2013 #203

I totally agree with you. If it had not been Martin, it would avebury Jun 2013 #207

He seemed to be looking for trouble Rhiannon12866 Jun 2013 #208

Yes. He seems to have had a hero complex. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #214

I do. Most people who have CCWs are routinely armed when they leave home. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #202

Since Zimmerman was doing the following, how was he in fear for his life? Rhiannon12866 Jun 2013 #205

If you are getting your head pounded into the concrete... GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #209

I understand and that's exactly my point. Rhiannon12866 Jun 2013 #211

The training was there. He just didn't listen. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #215

And thank you so much for clarifying this, as well. Rhiannon12866 Jun 2013 #216

OP, next time please provide some livestream and/or TV links. Thanks. So---are there any? WinkyDink Jun 2013 #234

Here's an online link Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #236

Appreciated! WinkyDink Jun 2013 #238

Post removed Post removed Jun 2013 #244

Link? Wait Wut Jun 2013 #246