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baldguy

(36,649 posts)

13. And if the messenger is telling lies?

Reply to TheMadMonk (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 07:20 AM

Jun 2013

And a small group of extremists take those lies and exaggerate them?

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People who would attack the messenger to supress what they have to say... [View all] TheMadMonk Jun 2013 OP

their watchword is "legal". well lotsa stuff in the 1930's was "legal" too nt msongs Jun 2013 #1

Yeah, like when Greenwald 'reported' the NSA was stealing info directly from private servers railsback Jun 2013 #2

Can you prove that the NSA/FBI/DOJ/Whoever is not doing it? Savannahmann Jun 2013 #5

Thanks, Savannahmann ReRe Jun 2013 #7

Do you realize how paranoid that sounds? randome Jun 2013 #11

Yes, I live in a rural area, Savannahmann Jun 2013 #15

I don't think anything would satisfy you unless you were personally directing the NSA. randome Jun 2013 #24

So despite a long and documented history of the Government telling lies Savannahmann Jun 2013 #29

I usually don't second-guess the FBI, CIA, local police, Interpol, MI5, etc... randome Jun 2013 #32

And if President Obama wasn't told the truth? Savannahmann Jun 2013 #49

Read this and see if you feel the same way: ReRe Jun 2013 #92

Saying you can't trust any government agency is standard libertarian propaganda arely staircase Jun 2013 #50

It's also a standard leftist position... ljm2002 Jun 2013 #62

leftists believe in using the government to solve problems arely staircase Jun 2013 #63

"Governments lie"... ljm2002 Jun 2013 #68

well, all people lie arely staircase Jun 2013 #85

Was it the left wing that gave us the Patriot Act & Homeland Security? think Jun 2013 #79

Can you prove they were? railsback Jun 2013 #25

By circumstantial evidence sure. Savannahmann Jun 2013 #33

Well, according the Army's FM3-55 handbook, which is public railsback Jun 2013 #35

So again, you dismiss the arguments Savannahmann Jun 2013 #46

One says PRISM is a super secret spy program no one knew of railsback Jun 2013 #51

But, but,....STOP ATTACKING MESSENGER! Galraedia Jun 2013 #83

can you prove I'm not levitating right now? arely staircase Jun 2013 #41

Ha! If you were levitating, you would not be typing on a keyboard! randome Jun 2013 #44

as a matter of fact it does arely staircase Jun 2013 #47

I can assume that you're not railsback Jun 2013 #52

I'm a levitating sycophant arely staircase Jun 2013 #53

Well, who should we believe, the Corporations who have been caught lying so many times before sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #21

Oh, so now it comes down to nothing more than 'belief' railsback Jun 2013 #27

Apparently for you it does. Do you have some proof of anything you 'believe' or is it just sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #55

The accusers need to prove their case railsback Jun 2013 #56

I think you meant to say... ljm2002 Jun 2013 #60

No, Greenwald claimed they had direct access to the servers railsback Jun 2013 #61

Here is a link to the article: ljm2002 Jun 2013 #64

Yes, fully aware of the article railsback Jun 2013 #67

From the article: ljm2002 Jun 2013 #69

Lies? railsback Jun 2013 #73

The article reports what the NSA slides claim... ljm2002 Jun 2013 #76

YOU ARE ASSUMING railsback Jun 2013 #81

And when people ask legitimate questions Summer Hathaway Jun 2013 #3

If the point of contention is the message, it's still and attack on the messenger. TheMadMonk Jun 2013 #4

The messenger decides the content of his message. jeff47 Jun 2013 #14

When the messenger provides documentation the messenger no longer matters. And ONLY those sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #22

Again, the messenger decides what to leak. jeff47 Jun 2013 #86

The IRS scandal is a scandal, inside of a scandal, inside of a scandal ReRe Jun 2013 #93

Issa's just a convenient, 1-2 sentence example. jeff47 Jun 2013 #94

Si, Senor/Senorita. n/t ReRe Jun 2013 #95

When the messenger is blabbing about spying the US is doing on Russia and China, pnwmom Jun 2013 #6

old news frylock Jun 2013 #17

And an ongoing problem. Is he still in Russia or has he moved on? n/t pnwmom Jun 2013 #20

idk. if you have his number i'll call and ask. frylock Jun 2013 #23

Apparently he's still there, lugging around his computers, talking to . . . whoever. pnwmom Jun 2013 #26

well, tomorrow's another day.. frylock Jun 2013 #31

What does it matter, everyone knew that already, he didn't release anything sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #34

Yes, he has. For instance, as a part of the power point, pnwmom Jun 2013 #45

So he DID release 'new' information? We were being told here that it was all 'old news'. I get sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #59

Plame's statement concerned internal surveillance only, but the issue I'm talking about here pnwmom Jun 2013 #70

Got a link to that? And I was just told again in another thread that is 'all old news'. People need sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #71

I know you're keeping up with this. You can find it yourself if you care. n/t pnwmom Jun 2013 #72

and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law arely staircase Jun 2013 #43

If Fox News says it is Thursday then some would argue that today can't possibly be Thursday. KurtNYC Jun 2013 #8

No truer words, TMM ReRe Jun 2013 #9

It's an old sentiment, but AFAIK the phrasing is mine. /nt TheMadMonk Jun 2013 #87

Does that include dismissing people as administration shills? Recursion Jun 2013 #10

When the messenger's credibility is suspect Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #12

Especially when we have the documents themselves nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #16

Lol, they always forget about the documents. I guess they haven't bothered to research exactly sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #36

The "messenger" matters. Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #39

The Verizon production order speaks for itself nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #42

And if the messenger is telling lies? baldguy Jun 2013 #13

extremists? frylock Jun 2013 #18

If the messenger producers documents, which is the case here, it doesn't matter of the sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #37

In the case here, Snowdens documents say one thing and his allegations say another. baldguy Jun 2013 #54

Try to focus. It doesn't matter what HE says, or you believe, or anything else. It matters only what sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #57

So, you're attacking the messenger if the messenger also engages geek tragedy Jun 2013 #19

Not at all, I do my bloody damndedest to debate the subject matter... TheMadMonk Jun 2013 #88

BS BOTH can be discussed treestar Jun 2013 #28

The 'victim' is not the OP. He can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe he is talking about the sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #38

Why is the discussing of Eddie's faults a "smear campaign?" treestar Jun 2013 #48

Who is 'Eddie'? But let's talk about that 'data base' which we now have more information about sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #58

what about people who declare ther messenger a "hero"? arely staircase Jun 2013 #30

Please provide a list of who MAY and who MAY NOT be questioned. So we know. n/t UTUSN Jun 2013 #40

THERE IS NO FUCKING WHO! There is only that which needs to be said. /nt TheMadMonk Jun 2013 #89

Yeah, if it conforms to our prejudices. You know, like what Faux tells their audience, or what UTUSN Jun 2013 #90

I was pretty sure the NSA was collecting all our phone records... BlueCheese Jun 2013 #65

Character assassination is a huge red flag. The people that participate in it are fucking scum. backscatter712 Jun 2013 #66

It's not character assasination - it's character DESCRIPTION. baldguy Jun 2013 #75

Yes, but if the accurate picture is of less than no consequence sibelian Jun 2013 #77

. baldguy Jun 2013 #78

Its just promoting bobduca Jun 2013 #91

Happens all the time here DainBramaged Jun 2013 #74

Here's PRISM Benton D Struckcheon Jun 2013 #80

A few things. If he has 'every agent and their missions' in his hands, the real traitor is he Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #97

Well, lets look at the actual story, shall we? Benton D Struckcheon Jun 2013 #98

This message was self-deleted by its author emulatorloo Jun 2013 #82

What proof has Snowden offered to support his claim that from he could wiretap anyone... Galraedia Jun 2013 #84

So your response is to attack the messenger. Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #96

K+R sibelian Jun 2013 #99