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Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
43. Where is the scandal?
Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:00 PM
Jun 2013

The fact that the secret FISC, with no oversight or accountability, routinely and continually authorized all data collection requested by the NSA every 90 days, is scandalous.

I know it's out of vogue, but here is the Fourth Amendment:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


The fact that the NSA is asking the FISC for a warrant makes the Fourth Amendment relevant.

Whether the NSA has probable cause to collect data on millions of anonymous citizens is very much an open question, and a comprehensive explanation by the Administration is long overdue regarding why they believe they have probable cause to do this. Repeatedly citing the classified nature of the program is not sufficient cause to avoid giving an explanation.

A valid warrant must "particularly describ[e] the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." A blanket warrant issued every 90 days for the huge volume of records seized cannot by any stretch of the imagination meet this requirement.

If the program is indeed Constitutional and does not present a threat to democracy, then there is no harm explaining in detail exactly how the program functions. According to the people that created it, our government derives its "just powers from the consent of the governed." We as citizens cannot consent to this program if we do not know how it works.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Well, we were told nobody was listening to our __Calls___! Pholus Jun 2013 #1
I personally think that ohheckyeah Jun 2013 #3
Bingo. And once transcribed it's easier to analyze in software. nt Pholus Jun 2013 #7
Absolutely. ohheckyeah Jun 2013 #14
Funny, i didn't even notice. nt kelliekat44 Jun 2013 #57
They are neither listening to calls nor reading emails. Recursion Jun 2013 #5
Awesome. Cause there is no harm that could come from misusing that. Pholus Jun 2013 #9
I can think of more harm from them misusing my medical records, but I want universal healthcare. Recursion Jun 2013 #12
Ummmm. Okay then. I'll just wait a while. nt Pholus Jun 2013 #13
Do you not worry for the future, though? Romulus Quirinus Jun 2013 #31
Then why are we for universal health care? Recursion Jun 2013 #32
What would he do with them, if we had an NHS? Romulus Quirinus Jun 2013 #35
Ah, you have nothing to hide, medically, so you aren't worried? Recursion Jun 2013 #36
And thus, a new talking point is born. Maedhros Jun 2013 #39
Not at all! I am honestly not trying to be obtuse. Romulus Quirinus Jun 2013 #41
All universal health care means is that everyone has health care and the government RC Jun 2013 #45
They keep a record of everything they pay for Recursion Jun 2013 #47
So you'd rather continue haveing the greedy, private, health insurance companies do the same thing? RC Jun 2013 #50
I'm not the one saying the govt can't be trusted Recursion Jun 2013 #52
You better watch out.. Ms. Toad Jun 2013 #48
Insidious.... Pholus Jun 2013 #53
July 20. Cleveland. Ms. Toad Jun 2013 #63
Section 1061 of the 2014 NDAA allows for analysis of previously collected data. Fire Walk With Me Jun 2013 #54
And I strongly oppose its passage (nt) Recursion Jun 2013 #55
Excellent. However: NSA spying flap extends to contents of U.S. phone calls Fire Walk With Me Jun 2013 #58
of course they *can*. HHS *can* sell your info to Merck Recursion Jun 2013 #59
So, they still have all those emails, and will keep them 5 yrs, until 2015-6 under current rules? leveymg Jun 2013 #2
So the Obama administration reviewed, and then ended, this program. JoePhilly Jun 2013 #4
In 2011. Near the end of his first term. n/t Ms. Toad Jun 2013 #49
So? whatchamacallit Jun 2013 #6
So does my email provider. Program is history now. JaneyVee Jun 2013 #8
Which codename ended again? Pholus Jun 2013 #17
I'm all for both sides of this issue debating its necessity based on its merits and bringing it to a JaneyVee Jun 2013 #19
Metadata is the best indication of who you are. Pholus Jun 2013 #21
2006 Joe Biden agrees think Jun 2013 #22
Bookmarked. Thanks for that link. Pholus Jun 2013 #23
C'mon, Greenwald railsback Jun 2013 #10
"EvilOlive" marions ghost Jun 2013 #46
Look on the bright side. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #11
Or the one in San Antonio that's not on the books according to local newspaper there think Jun 2013 #18
Ooohhh fancy nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #20
Doncha mean red diaper babies? n/t Ms. Toad Jun 2013 #51
Rec'd with note that in December 2012 the #NSA launched a new program Catherina Jun 2013 #15
I can't believe how passively people accept it. Pholus Jun 2013 #16
Lots of people passively accepted Hitler magellan Jun 2013 #24
Ah ... Obama is Hitler ... one must usually go to a Tea Party rally to obtain JoePhilly Jun 2013 #70
You obviously didn't bother reading past the subject line magellan Jun 2013 #71
LOL. Greenwald is getting desperate Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 #25
Old intel programs never die. They just get better codenames... :) Pholus Jun 2013 #27
So the administration is lying when they say the program was killed? Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 #29
Tedious. Please pause, take a deep breath, and read what I wrote. Pholus Jun 2013 #33
Where is the scandal? Maedhros Jun 2013 #43
It's still based on foreign communications. And it's metadata, not bulk collection of email. randome Jun 2013 #26
This is desperation ProSense Jun 2013 #30
I don't understand the Guardian hitching its wagon to Greenwald. randome Jun 2013 #34
Well, the Guardian's print arm's losing money hand over fist. Denzil_DC Jun 2013 #62
My appologies to NSA WovenGems Jun 2013 #28
tip of the iceberg. nt limpyhobbler Jun 2013 #37
No doubt. Skip Intro Jun 2013 #61
So the program began in 2001 and was stopped halfway through Obama's first term. pnwmom Jun 2013 #38
"How the NSA is still harvesting your online data" Hissyspit Jun 2013 #65
Because he knows few will actually read past the headline. JoePhilly Jun 2013 #69
Wait, so if I talk to say, Sid someone out there is collecting is watching us? sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #40
Why would the reporter conveniently leave out Afghanistan...... Historic NY Jun 2013 #42
Must spy on all Americans - that is how paranoid we are! grahamhgreen Jun 2013 #44
Post removed Post removed Jun 2013 #56
This message was self-deleted by its author Pholus Jun 2013 #60
Kick !!! WillyT Jun 2013 #64
Greenwald appreciates your sheepish dissemination of his propaganda. great white snark Jun 2013 #66
THAT... Is Hysterical... But When It Comes To Sheep, You Guys Know Best... WillyT Jun 2013 #67
K&R woo me with science Jun 2013 #68
Kick woo me with science Jun 2013 #72
kick woo me with science Jun 2013 #73
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