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newthinking

(3,982 posts)

45. OK. I give up, that Democrats are all uniform and couln't possibly just

Fri Jun 28, 2013, 12:58 AM

Jun 2013

be actually be trying to get others to understand differences between groups that otherwise have similar values..

No... shhhhh.... if other democrats don't think like us they are suspects! They must be a xyzertarian operative behind that keyboard....

yess that's it....

ugh!

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Are we questioning "Civil Libertarian" ideas now? [View all] newthinking Jun 2013 OP

Your other "right." n/t Cerridwen Jun 2013 #1

People seem to get stuck on labels. "Civil Liberties" are different than "Libertarian" ideology newthinking Jun 2013 #2

There are ideals where Democrats and Libertarians can ally. MNBrewer Jun 2013 #3

Well, the ptbs want us to do that because if the people ever unite against the corrupt war criminals sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #21

+1 ! you're exactly right... tex-wyo-dem Jun 2013 #32

Big "L" libertarians are authoritarian "right" wingers who like to smoke pot Cerridwen Jun 2013 #4

Again, you see to be getting stuck on the word newthinking Jun 2013 #9

Do you see yourself among these? freshwest Jun 2013 #12

That is a framed look. Concepts are much deeper than politics newthinking Jun 2013 #16

Sorry, but you already have. You're defending a brand, and saying other people are wrong. freshwest Jun 2013 #20

Who said I don't vote newthinking Jun 2013 #22

I understand what you are saying in your OP, newthinking, and I agree with you. Th1onein Jun 2013 #44

If you can label it you can dismiss it.. zeemike Jun 2013 #39

^ lots of win in that one. ucrdem Jun 2013 #34

Sure. And the term "liberal" used to be co-opted newthinking Jun 2013 #42

+1 flamingdem Jun 2013 #36

Hey, don't just borrow it. Steal the best, ignore the rest! freshwest Jun 2013 #40

I will. I think that I was being trolled by one this week flamingdem Jun 2013 #41

I get trolled by a Libertarian, Paulbot or Infowar mouthbreather everyday. Meh! freshwest Jun 2013 #43

Brings new meaning to the phrase "creepy ass cracker." reusrename Jun 2013 #79

You're arguing for the label while arguing against labels? Cerridwen Jun 2013 #13

Take a deep breath and think, not react politically, to what I am saying newthinking Jun 2013 #17

Yes, yes, I'm being a(n) hysterical female. Cerridwen Jun 2013 #18

I didn't even know you were a woman newthinking Jun 2013 #19

You seem to be the one stuck on the words. Or yourself. Can't quite figure which it is. Squinch Jun 2013 #15

+1. They are screaming about their sacred political label while not supporting other rights. Meh. freshwest Jun 2013 #10

Noam Chomsky would disagree TalkingDog Jun 2013 #24

From 1971 on nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #30

That thar was a dumb post. napoleon_in_rags Jun 2013 #64

Heard 'em described as "free market Republicans with bongs." Lizzie Poppet Jun 2013 #80

You can tell them apart because Republican "libertarians" Warpy Jun 2013 #5

Not just that, but also Democrats believe social nets are appropriate newthinking Jun 2013 #14

Oh gawd the image of Paul Ryan floated back into my brain flamingdem Jun 2013 #37

Paul Ryan isn't a Libertarian. He's a Republican. Rand Paul is a Libertarian. nt Honeycombe8 Jun 2013 #6

I meant Rand Paul. Just changed it newthinking Jun 2013 #11

Time for a refresh on the Political Compass, I see. Jackpine Radical Jun 2013 #7

Good link newthinking Jun 2013 #23

Can I say having a government that is transparent and for the people Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #8

follow the money sigmasix Jun 2013 #25

Libertarians are trying to STEAL the word DonCoquixote Jun 2013 #26

Here's a chart of the European political spectrum I often use to help Snarkoleptic Jun 2013 #27

Liberal voices are not in Iliyah Jun 2013 #28

No we are questioning devisiveness. bluedigger Jun 2013 #29

Ron Paul is a libertarian... Rand Paul is Tea Party PatrynXX Jun 2013 #31

I think it's safe to say that whenever "libertarian" creepy-crawls into the discussion ucrdem Jun 2013 #33

That includes posters who suggest that Democrats and Libertarians flamingdem Jun 2013 #38

OK. I give up, that Democrats are all uniform and couln't possibly just newthinking Jun 2013 #45

Yes, if it includes such things as the unrestricted "liberty" to carry a gun frazzled Jun 2013 #35

There is a huge difference.... davidn3600 Jun 2013 #47

You interpret my position wrongly frazzled Jun 2013 #81

Very few read (or understood) the OP, apparently. Waiting For Everyman Jun 2013 #46

Fortunately it appears to be mostly a vocal minority newthinking Jun 2013 #48

I sure hope so. Waiting For Everyman Jun 2013 #49

We get it, and we object to it. ucrdem Jun 2013 #50

Oh hell no. Waiting For Everyman Jun 2013 #52

It's just a word. We have better ones. Liberalism for example. ucrdem Jun 2013 #53

The GOP doesn't own squat. Waiting For Everyman Jun 2013 #55

They own libertarianism because they bought it. ucrdem Jun 2013 #58

Oooh is it trademarked now? Waiting For Everyman Jun 2013 #61

When is always? "Civil libertarian" is a neologism, and yes, ucrdem Jun 2013 #62

Introducing a meaning? Waiting For Everyman Jun 2013 #65

Yes. Your title could have been "Are we questioning 'Civil Liberties' now?" ucrdem Jun 2013 #66

One is a noun, the other in an adjective form. Waiting For Everyman Jun 2013 #67

Now you're mixing up "civil rights activists" with "civil libertarians." They aren't the same. ucrdem Jun 2013 #69

Thanks, but no thanks. I'm not mixing up a thing. Waiting For Everyman Jun 2013 #71

words in the dictionary are important newthinking Jun 2013 #70

Yes, liberty is a fine word. Libertarian is a GOP designer word. ucrdem Jun 2013 #73

*You* are dragging in the GOP garbage newthinking Jun 2013 #74

Amazing, isn't it? nt bananas Jun 2013 #72

Framing in action newthinking Jun 2013 #77

I'm right there with you Hydra Jun 2013 #122

Libertarians are, Newest Reality Jun 2013 #51

What will anarchy cost you? nt patrice Jun 2013 #56

Everything and nothing. Newest Reality Jun 2013 #57

Thanks, but no sale. ucrdem Jun 2013 #59

Assumptions and reality Newest Reality Jun 2013 #124

Must say I have some difficulty with statements about anarchy made from patrice Jun 2013 #60

"Civil Libertarian" is not the same thing as newthinking Jun 2013 #68

No matter how right they are, Civil Libertarians have no right to unilaterally evoke disaster. patrice Jun 2013 #54

Great OP! LostOne4Ever Jun 2013 #63

I must say that this thread perfectly demonstrates the power framing has on people newthinking Jun 2013 #75

I think the fear is siphoning votes away from democratic candidates during elections. geckosfeet Jun 2013 #76

I am repulsed by Rand & Ryan, so reflexively am dismissive of civil liberties issues? Kolesar Jun 2013 #78

Thank you. nt LWolf Jun 2013 #82

I'm on the "libertarian left" LWolf Jun 2013 #83

Notice Ghandi is in the "libertarian Left" on the spectrum newthinking Jun 2013 #92

Which tells us how meaningless these diagrams really are. nt ucrdem Jun 2013 #97

Of course, because it does not fit your ideology. newthinking Jun 2013 #103

I've seen it, and my assessment is: Libertarian lolipop for lost tots. ucrdem Jun 2013 #107

It does. LWolf Jun 2013 #98

This is the level of contempt authoritarians have for the people. woo me with science Jun 2013 #84

Excellent OP LuvNewcastle Jun 2013 #85

Yes, some of us are questioning Libertarian ideas Progressive dog Jun 2013 #86

It doesn't. newthinking Jun 2013 #94

We apparently have to agree on what civil liberties are Progressive dog Jun 2013 #101

+1 ucrdem Jun 2013 #102

"politisized thinking" vs "political thinking newthinking Jun 2013 #104

What are you replying to? Progressive dog Jun 2013 #110

That is not what the OP says newthinking Jun 2013 #113

Yes it does say that, Rand Paul is only for civil rights Progressive dog Jun 2013 #115

it's sad and dangerous that some (here) think libertarians "own" civil liberties issues nashville_brook Jun 2013 #87

They don't. That's a straw man you just made up. nt ucrdem Jun 2013 #88

oh, so your allies don't use rand/ron paul to defame dems supporting transparency in govt? nashville_brook Jun 2013 #90

Perhaps you should quit while you're behind. ucrdem Jun 2013 #91

I think they are heavily manipulated by framing newthinking Jun 2013 #95

"Libertarian" was never our word and we don't need to take it back. ucrdem Jun 2013 #96

"Liberty" and "Civil Liberty" have very much been so newthinking Jun 2013 #99

"Civil liberties" are *not* the same as "civil libertarian ideas," the term ucrdem Jun 2013 #100

You didn't answer newthinking Jun 2013 #106

Actually, you've convinced me of what I suspected when you posted this. nt ucrdem Jun 2013 #108

emotional reactions, suspicions, and stereotyping newthinking Jun 2013 #109

Rational reaction: TOS alert sent. Now I'm putting you on full ignore so adios. nt ucrdem Jun 2013 #112

The talking points deliberately manipulate with framing. woo me with science Jun 2013 #120

You nailed it. Uncle Joe Jun 2013 #89

K&R woo me with science Jun 2013 #93

Some people only want accountability, transparency, responsiveness & due process baldguy Jun 2013 #105

We are questioning Rand Paul's commitment to our understanding of civil rights. Progressive dog Jun 2013 #111

I don't disagree with you newthinking Jun 2013 #116

Unless you explained yourself poorly in the OP Progressive dog Jun 2013 #117

Enough people have understood what I wrote newthinking Jun 2013 #119

I got it too, so I don't agree our views have Progressive dog Jun 2013 #121

'Civil' libertarian? Why not just call yourself a 'civil' liberal? Galraedia Jun 2013 #114

That was the point of the OP newthinking Jun 2013 #118

any idea of Rand Paul's is bad markiv Jun 2013 #123