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ucrdem

(15,720 posts)

66. Yes. Your title could have been "Are we questioning 'Civil Liberties' now?"

Reply to Waiting For Everyman (Reply #65)

Fri Jun 28, 2013, 03:15 AM

Jun 2013

Which is more concise and to-the-point word wise. To work in "libertarian" you had to add "ideas." So why go to all that trouble if you meant "civil liberties"? And why cling to a phony made-up word if you really mean "liberty?"

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Are we questioning "Civil Libertarian" ideas now? [View all] newthinking Jun 2013 OP

Your other "right." n/t Cerridwen Jun 2013 #1

People seem to get stuck on labels. "Civil Liberties" are different than "Libertarian" ideology newthinking Jun 2013 #2

There are ideals where Democrats and Libertarians can ally. MNBrewer Jun 2013 #3

Well, the ptbs want us to do that because if the people ever unite against the corrupt war criminals sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #21

+1 ! you're exactly right... tex-wyo-dem Jun 2013 #32

Big "L" libertarians are authoritarian "right" wingers who like to smoke pot Cerridwen Jun 2013 #4

Again, you see to be getting stuck on the word newthinking Jun 2013 #9

Do you see yourself among these? freshwest Jun 2013 #12

That is a framed look. Concepts are much deeper than politics newthinking Jun 2013 #16

Sorry, but you already have. You're defending a brand, and saying other people are wrong. freshwest Jun 2013 #20

Who said I don't vote newthinking Jun 2013 #22

I understand what you are saying in your OP, newthinking, and I agree with you. Th1onein Jun 2013 #44

If you can label it you can dismiss it.. zeemike Jun 2013 #39

^ lots of win in that one. ucrdem Jun 2013 #34

Sure. And the term "liberal" used to be co-opted newthinking Jun 2013 #42

+1 flamingdem Jun 2013 #36

Hey, don't just borrow it. Steal the best, ignore the rest! freshwest Jun 2013 #40

I will. I think that I was being trolled by one this week flamingdem Jun 2013 #41

I get trolled by a Libertarian, Paulbot or Infowar mouthbreather everyday. Meh! freshwest Jun 2013 #43

Brings new meaning to the phrase "creepy ass cracker." reusrename Jun 2013 #79

You're arguing for the label while arguing against labels? Cerridwen Jun 2013 #13

Take a deep breath and think, not react politically, to what I am saying newthinking Jun 2013 #17

Yes, yes, I'm being a(n) hysterical female. Cerridwen Jun 2013 #18

I didn't even know you were a woman newthinking Jun 2013 #19

You seem to be the one stuck on the words. Or yourself. Can't quite figure which it is. Squinch Jun 2013 #15

+1. They are screaming about their sacred political label while not supporting other rights. Meh. freshwest Jun 2013 #10

Noam Chomsky would disagree TalkingDog Jun 2013 #24

From 1971 on nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #30

That thar was a dumb post. napoleon_in_rags Jun 2013 #64

Heard 'em described as "free market Republicans with bongs." Lizzie Poppet Jun 2013 #80

You can tell them apart because Republican "libertarians" Warpy Jun 2013 #5

Not just that, but also Democrats believe social nets are appropriate newthinking Jun 2013 #14

Oh gawd the image of Paul Ryan floated back into my brain flamingdem Jun 2013 #37

Paul Ryan isn't a Libertarian. He's a Republican. Rand Paul is a Libertarian. nt Honeycombe8 Jun 2013 #6

I meant Rand Paul. Just changed it newthinking Jun 2013 #11

Time for a refresh on the Political Compass, I see. Jackpine Radical Jun 2013 #7

Good link newthinking Jun 2013 #23

Can I say having a government that is transparent and for the people Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #8

follow the money sigmasix Jun 2013 #25

Libertarians are trying to STEAL the word DonCoquixote Jun 2013 #26

Here's a chart of the European political spectrum I often use to help Snarkoleptic Jun 2013 #27

Liberal voices are not in Iliyah Jun 2013 #28

No we are questioning devisiveness. bluedigger Jun 2013 #29

Ron Paul is a libertarian... Rand Paul is Tea Party PatrynXX Jun 2013 #31

I think it's safe to say that whenever "libertarian" creepy-crawls into the discussion ucrdem Jun 2013 #33

That includes posters who suggest that Democrats and Libertarians flamingdem Jun 2013 #38

OK. I give up, that Democrats are all uniform and couln't possibly just newthinking Jun 2013 #45

Yes, if it includes such things as the unrestricted "liberty" to carry a gun frazzled Jun 2013 #35

There is a huge difference.... davidn3600 Jun 2013 #47

You interpret my position wrongly frazzled Jun 2013 #81

Very few read (or understood) the OP, apparently. Waiting For Everyman Jun 2013 #46

Fortunately it appears to be mostly a vocal minority newthinking Jun 2013 #48

I sure hope so. Waiting For Everyman Jun 2013 #49

We get it, and we object to it. ucrdem Jun 2013 #50

Oh hell no. Waiting For Everyman Jun 2013 #52

It's just a word. We have better ones. Liberalism for example. ucrdem Jun 2013 #53

The GOP doesn't own squat. Waiting For Everyman Jun 2013 #55

They own libertarianism because they bought it. ucrdem Jun 2013 #58

Oooh is it trademarked now? Waiting For Everyman Jun 2013 #61

When is always? "Civil libertarian" is a neologism, and yes, ucrdem Jun 2013 #62

Introducing a meaning? Waiting For Everyman Jun 2013 #65

Yes. Your title could have been "Are we questioning 'Civil Liberties' now?" ucrdem Jun 2013 #66

One is a noun, the other in an adjective form. Waiting For Everyman Jun 2013 #67

Now you're mixing up "civil rights activists" with "civil libertarians." They aren't the same. ucrdem Jun 2013 #69

Thanks, but no thanks. I'm not mixing up a thing. Waiting For Everyman Jun 2013 #71

words in the dictionary are important newthinking Jun 2013 #70

Yes, liberty is a fine word. Libertarian is a GOP designer word. ucrdem Jun 2013 #73

*You* are dragging in the GOP garbage newthinking Jun 2013 #74

Amazing, isn't it? nt bananas Jun 2013 #72

Framing in action newthinking Jun 2013 #77

I'm right there with you Hydra Jun 2013 #122

Libertarians are, Newest Reality Jun 2013 #51

What will anarchy cost you? nt patrice Jun 2013 #56

Everything and nothing. Newest Reality Jun 2013 #57

Thanks, but no sale. ucrdem Jun 2013 #59

Assumptions and reality Newest Reality Jun 2013 #124

Must say I have some difficulty with statements about anarchy made from patrice Jun 2013 #60

"Civil Libertarian" is not the same thing as newthinking Jun 2013 #68

No matter how right they are, Civil Libertarians have no right to unilaterally evoke disaster. patrice Jun 2013 #54

Great OP! LostOne4Ever Jun 2013 #63

I must say that this thread perfectly demonstrates the power framing has on people newthinking Jun 2013 #75

I think the fear is siphoning votes away from democratic candidates during elections. geckosfeet Jun 2013 #76

I am repulsed by Rand & Ryan, so reflexively am dismissive of civil liberties issues? Kolesar Jun 2013 #78

Thank you. nt LWolf Jun 2013 #82

I'm on the "libertarian left" LWolf Jun 2013 #83

Notice Ghandi is in the "libertarian Left" on the spectrum newthinking Jun 2013 #92

Which tells us how meaningless these diagrams really are. nt ucrdem Jun 2013 #97

Of course, because it does not fit your ideology. newthinking Jun 2013 #103

I've seen it, and my assessment is: Libertarian lolipop for lost tots. ucrdem Jun 2013 #107

It does. LWolf Jun 2013 #98

This is the level of contempt authoritarians have for the people. woo me with science Jun 2013 #84

Excellent OP LuvNewcastle Jun 2013 #85

Yes, some of us are questioning Libertarian ideas Progressive dog Jun 2013 #86

It doesn't. newthinking Jun 2013 #94

We apparently have to agree on what civil liberties are Progressive dog Jun 2013 #101

+1 ucrdem Jun 2013 #102

"politisized thinking" vs "political thinking newthinking Jun 2013 #104

What are you replying to? Progressive dog Jun 2013 #110

That is not what the OP says newthinking Jun 2013 #113

Yes it does say that, Rand Paul is only for civil rights Progressive dog Jun 2013 #115

it's sad and dangerous that some (here) think libertarians "own" civil liberties issues nashville_brook Jun 2013 #87

They don't. That's a straw man you just made up. nt ucrdem Jun 2013 #88

oh, so your allies don't use rand/ron paul to defame dems supporting transparency in govt? nashville_brook Jun 2013 #90

Perhaps you should quit while you're behind. ucrdem Jun 2013 #91

I think they are heavily manipulated by framing newthinking Jun 2013 #95

"Libertarian" was never our word and we don't need to take it back. ucrdem Jun 2013 #96

"Liberty" and "Civil Liberty" have very much been so newthinking Jun 2013 #99

"Civil liberties" are *not* the same as "civil libertarian ideas," the term ucrdem Jun 2013 #100

You didn't answer newthinking Jun 2013 #106

Actually, you've convinced me of what I suspected when you posted this. nt ucrdem Jun 2013 #108

emotional reactions, suspicions, and stereotyping newthinking Jun 2013 #109

Rational reaction: TOS alert sent. Now I'm putting you on full ignore so adios. nt ucrdem Jun 2013 #112

The talking points deliberately manipulate with framing. woo me with science Jun 2013 #120

You nailed it. Uncle Joe Jun 2013 #89

K&R woo me with science Jun 2013 #93

Some people only want accountability, transparency, responsiveness & due process baldguy Jun 2013 #105

We are questioning Rand Paul's commitment to our understanding of civil rights. Progressive dog Jun 2013 #111

I don't disagree with you newthinking Jun 2013 #116

Unless you explained yourself poorly in the OP Progressive dog Jun 2013 #117

Enough people have understood what I wrote newthinking Jun 2013 #119

I got it too, so I don't agree our views have Progressive dog Jun 2013 #121

'Civil' libertarian? Why not just call yourself a 'civil' liberal? Galraedia Jun 2013 #114

That was the point of the OP newthinking Jun 2013 #118

any idea of Rand Paul's is bad markiv Jun 2013 #123