General Discussion

Hydra

(14,459 posts)

23. No...

Fri Jun 28, 2013, 12:26 PM

Jun 2013

Not all laws are legal. DOMA, for instance. The Constitution is the highest legal document. If you pass a law that conflicts with it, that can't legalize illegal behavior.

The FISA court has deemed their behavior to be a violation of the 4th amendment. Obama's DoJ has blocked the release of the ruling, so we know it's not favorable to their position.

They are NOT allowed to spy on anyone without a warrant based on probable cause. They have been spying on people without probable cause. And they've lied about it to Congress, which is obstruction of justice.

It's all documented, we've just been forbidden to know about it until Snowden leaked the docs. If you're against rule of law, just say so- don't pretend you're defending innocent behavior.

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Highlight:

NYTimes Op-Ed: "The Criminal N.S.A." [View all] 99th_Monkey Jun 2013 OP

It IS criminal and it needs to stop. Th1onein Jun 2013 #1

The nice thing about Op-Ed pieces is that the newspaper can't fire the writer(s) 99th_Monkey Jun 2013 #2

CRIMES BehindTheCurtain76 Jun 2013 #16

Interesting, but inherently flawed. OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #3

THIS 'data collection' consists of monitoring who, when and how often I phone or email 99th_Monkey Jun 2013 #5

I'll say it one last time. Then I'm done. OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #10

It's a pity that reverse phone directories don't still exist 99th_Monkey Jun 2013 #15

Wow! You should go to work for the government! Th1onein Jun 2013 #12

Except for me and the courts. OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #17

Of course the "law is legal". The interpretation by the government may not be. rhett o rick Jun 2013 #21

No... Hydra Jun 2013 #23

Justice Department Fights Release of Secret Court Opinion Finding Unconstitutional Surveillance PoliticAverse Jun 2013 #26

Things that make you go, "Hmmmm." bvar22 Jun 2013 #41

Things that make you go "D'oh". OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #49

The courts have not ruled on this brand new handy, dandy INTERPRETATION of the law. Th1onein Jun 2013 #53

There ain't no fuck in chocolate! OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #54

??? kentuck Jun 2013 #56

Google broken? OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #57

It's an old joke... Melinda Jun 2013 #66

Census data collection is not INVOLUNTARY and SECRET. Waiting For Everyman Jun 2013 #18

"Refusing or neglecting to answer the census is punishable by fines of $100, OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #55

It so happens that I worked for the Census this last time, Waiting For Everyman Jun 2013 #62

I'm not sure what your point is. OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #64

of course it's surveillance. Even they say it is. cali Jun 2013 #19

If it's not surveillance? kentuck Jun 2013 #42

No, it's not suveillance. OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #59

yes. That and the cheer they are leading. kentuck Jun 2013 #60

Who are they? OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #61

Seems opinions are all GreenSnowdenWald have left. railsback Jun 2013 #4

They also printed the leaks of another whistle blower. One Daniel Ellsberg. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #6

Ellsberg release the Pentagon Papers in 1971 railsback Jun 2013 #11

I seem to recall someone once saying that those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat Th1onein Jun 2013 #13

Ellsberg also supports Manning and Snowden and their efforts. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #14

FYI - it was actually an "op-ed" piece, not an official NYTimes Editorial. 99th_Monkey Jun 2013 #7

Yes, 'deemed' by the NY Times railsback Jun 2013 #9

So where do you get your news from? Romulus Quirinus Jun 2013 #25

FYI railsback Jun 2013 #29

So? Romulus Quirinus Jun 2013 #33

Expected the blank look. railsback Jun 2013 #36

Pardon? nt Romulus Quirinus Jun 2013 #37

So now the evil NYTimes is "The Issue"? 99th_Monkey Jun 2013 #34

Yeah, I forgot to cherry pick my messenger attack railsback Jun 2013 #35

Forgetting appears to be your forte. ~nt 99th_Monkey Jun 2013 #63

My disagreement comes from the notion that phone numbers are private bhikkhu Jun 2013 #8

"It�s time to call the N.S.A.�s mass surveillance programs what they are: criminal." DesMoinesDem Jun 2013 #20

"Congressional watchdogs � with a few exceptions, like Senator Rand Paul . . . " ucrdem Jun 2013 #22

Eerrr. aarrghhh... 99th_Monkey Jun 2013 #27

K&R marions ghost Jun 2013 #24

knr Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #28

Interesting video link 99th_Monkey Jun 2013 #46

K&R woo me with science Jun 2013 #30

a very important article Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #31

The NY Times?!! kentuck Jun 2013 #32

This needs to stay on top. nt woo me with science Jun 2013 #38

Thanks. YES. 99th_Monkey Jun 2013 #45

This is no more sophisticated than right wingers declaring the EPA or OSHA or IRS to be "criminal." treestar Jun 2013 #39

Two lawyers from excellent schools marions ghost Jun 2013 #48

Where are all the rebuttals?? kentuck Jun 2013 #40

Well, the post #39 above yours, sums it up. That's all they got. ~nt 99th_Monkey Jun 2013 #44

kr PufPuf23 Jun 2013 #43

K & R L0oniX Jun 2013 #47

K&R 99Forever Jun 2013 #50

Uh oh. Guess the Army Times won't be carrying the story. Guess the Pentagon will cut NYT from silvershadow Jun 2013 #51

B,but if Greenwald + Nader and Snowden=narcissistic traitor, then... Bonobo Jun 2013 #52

did you mean marions ghost Jun 2013 #65

Yep. nt Bonobo Jun 2013 #67

K&R marions ghost Jun 2013 #68

K+R sibelian Jun 2013 #58

kick woo me with science Jul 2013 #69

kick woo me with science Jul 2013 #70