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H2O Man

(79,102 posts)
Fri Jun 28, 2013, 03:11 PM Jun 2013

Rachel Jeantel [View all]

Yesterday, in response to a couple of articles posted on DU:GD, I made some harsh remarks. Some people thought I was knocking Rachel Jeantel (I wasn’t); others thought I was being cranky (I was); and one person stated that I was jealous of another author’s writing skills (I wasn’t). I was in a foul mood yesterday. It happens. So, I apologize to any friends I offended.

I watched Rachel’s testimony. I thought that she did well. Thus, while I have sympathy for the loss of her friend -- and especially the terrible circumstances that connected her to the murder trial -- I found some of the things people said on TV, or wrote on the internet, to be condescending. Rachel struck me as a strong young lady, deserving of respect and understanding, but not to be viewed as a victim of the court proceedings.

I appreciate that courtrooms create stress. This is especially true at a time when certain trials take on a circus-like atmosphere in the national media. And I also understand, all too well, having friends and family members murdered. It may be that the combination of first-hand experience with courtrooms and funerals has impacted the manner in which I view both this trial, and Rachel.

The legal process provides us with a unique look at sociological issues in our culture. For example, taken as a whole, the legal system provides greater opportunities and protections for one sub-culture, the wealthy. Clearly, poor people make up the majority of those incarcerated in the prison-industrial complex. More, black people are more likely to be incarcerated for the exact same crime as are white folks. Yet only a fool believes that the poor and non-white are predisposed to criminal activities.

In the past, blacks were identified as a sub-culture in the United States; today, they are correctly viewed as a co-culture. Yet there is no one blanket “black culture.” Hence, when the host of a HLN program asked a black guest if “blacks view Rachel’s testimony differently than do whites?,” she thanked him for trusting her to speak for all black people. Safe to say, for example, that Clarence Thomas sees the world differently than Rachel Jeantel.

Rachel belongs to another sub-culture, one that was first recognized when “baby-boomers” became older teens and young adults: “youth.” Older forum members will recall when they were called a “counter-culture.” This illustrates an important point -- that the larger culture frequently reacts harshly to the differences in sub-cultures. This is especially true when the sub-culture takes pride in, and identifies itself with those differences. Again, older forum members will recall that the larger society sought “protection” from (re: to punish) those who wore bell-bottoms, colorful shirts, short skirts, and love beads. I still have some old “warnings” from right-wing, conservative christian leaders on the terrible threat posed by The Beatles: not just long haired pot-smokers, they, but Ringo’s drums beat out a subversive “jungle beat” (accurate quote) that made youth vulnerable to communism.

Luckily, youth has its own unique defense systems. Rachel illustrated my favorite of these very well. When an “authority figure” asks a young adult the same stupid question, over and over, the youth often displays her/his utter contempt for the questioner. I am convinced that this is one of the most sacred duties of youth in the larger society. And I say that as a father of four, each with an impressive skill set that allows them to make others fully aware of that contempt.

As a rule, witnesses should not argue with lawyers while on the stand. The attorney has unique advantages in that setting. The defense attorney who cross-examined Rachel is actually talented at his trade. Although his “knock-knock” attempt at humor was pathetic, he is good at coming across as a wise and thoughtful grandfatherly gentleman. But from what I saw, he was not entirely comfortable in questioning Rachel …..not because he was hesitant to try to expose weaknesses in her testimony, but because she was a worthy opponent. They were trading shots pretty well, in my opinion.

That’s why I have respect for this young lady in terms of her trial participation. I did not see her as the victim in that context. I felt proud of her, not sympathy.

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Rachel Jeantel [View all] H2O Man Jun 2013 OP
Makes sense! JustAnotherGen Jun 2013 #1
Thank you! H2O Man Jun 2013 #10
Indeed. Well written, as usual, H2O. longship Jun 2013 #2
Thanks! H2O Man Jun 2013 #11
I was very impressed with Ms Jeantel and thought she was great csziggy Jun 2013 #3
Well said. H2O Man Jun 2013 #12
As far as your last sentence, "I felt proud of her, not sympathy.", Sheldon Cooper Jun 2013 #4
You are right. H2O Man Jun 2013 #13
I agree with you very much. Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #5
Right. H2O Man Jun 2013 #15
excellent post...one quibble noiretextatique Jun 2013 #6
He doesn't seem H2O Man Jun 2013 #16
I thought you weren't yourself yesterday :) Marrah_G Jun 2013 #7
Unfortunately, I suppose H2O Man Jun 2013 #17
It's okay, we all love you anyway Water guy Marrah_G Jun 2013 #21
Even when you are a 'cranky, snarling old fart', your OPs are one of the reasons sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #29
Amen. Romulus Quirinus Jun 2013 #8
Right. H2O Man Jun 2013 #18
I was impressed REP Jun 2013 #9
"quick wit" H2O Man Jun 2013 #19
I guess I find her testimony completely lacking in credibility. Vattel Jun 2013 #14
Really? Are_grits_groceries Jun 2013 #20
Did you hear the interview by the state prosecutor to which I referred? Vattel Jun 2013 #23
Yes Are_grits_groceries Jun 2013 #25
So the willingness to lie didn't bother you at all? Vattel Jun 2013 #28
State attorneys remind everyone they 'want them to be truthful'. So why is that significant sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #30
Yes, they do, but not usually because the person is obviously lying. Vattel Jun 2013 #34
No, I didn't yet. But I remember the reports immediately after the killing. sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #35
we don't know the things you claim we know. Vattel Jul 2013 #36
This is a simple case. A teenager was on his way home from the store, he was followed and frightened sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #37
I Felt The Same Way RobinA Jun 2013 #32
Much appreciated. K&R n/t OneGrassRoot Jun 2013 #22
Kick this. lamp_shade Jun 2013 #24
While I agree with your description of Attorney West's cross COLGATE4 Jun 2013 #26
Careful RobinA Jun 2013 #33
Well said. I thought she did well. DirkGently Jun 2013 #27
Yes, that was beyond far-fetced, that Trayvon was looking forward to some trial in the future. I sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #31
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