General Discussion

last1standing

(11,709 posts)

8. Other than the fact that he had been stalking Martin.

Fri Jun 28, 2013, 11:07 PM

Jun 2013

Even Zimmerman admits that he was following Martin for at least some time previous to his 911 call. Also, if he thought Martin had a gun why did he voluntarily place himself in a dangerous situation by confronting him? Either way, Zimmerman becomes the aggressor who created a volatile situation when he had no legal right to do so. Also, once Zimmerman had established that Martin was not carrying a weapon the use of a gun became disproportionate defense even if Martin did physically attack him.

This is basic law. If you attack me with your fists, I am not legally allowed to shoot you with my gun. I can only defend myself in a manner fitting the situation. Also, since it has been admitted that it was Zimmerman who confronted Martin, Zimmerman cannot claim that he had the right to act in self defense. Again, basic criminal law states that once you begin a fight, you lose any self defense claim regardless of how the fight goes.

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Marcia Clark brought up a great point on Anderson Cooper [View all] DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2013 OP

Well if you believe he wanted to kill Martin from the get go I guess that works. dkf Jun 2013 #1

He did. appacom Jun 2013 #2

You don't know that. There is no way in the fucking world you could KNOW that. cherokeeprogressive Jun 2013 #13

So, can we imply you are defending Zimmerman and think he is not-guilty? Nanjing to Seoul Jun 2013 #44

You can imply whatever the fuck you want. cherokeeprogressive Jun 2013 #53

Neither can the DA, since he wasn't there either. Not guilty then, right? Nanjing to Seoul Jun 2013 #79

You mean "infer", and if you check cherokeeprogressive's history on this topic, no Recursion Jun 2013 #68

He targeted, tracked, and killed Trayvon. End of Story. Guilty appacom Jun 2013 #100

No doubt in my mind Cronus Protagonist Jun 2013 #30

He was interested in shooting one of "these people" because they always get away. Enthusiast Jun 2013 #92

My God this is ridiculous Recursion Jun 2013 #71

I believe Zimmerman thought he was going to pull off a citizen's arrest. lumpy Jun 2013 #9

No way did he want to lose a fight to a kid. He'd never live it down. alfredo Jun 2013 #35

I'm not a DA jeffrey_pdx Jun 2013 #41

He Will NEVER Take The Stand HangOnKids Jun 2013 #82

I'd love to see him on the stand, and so would the prosecution. alfredo Jun 2013 #99

My gut feeling is AgingAmerican Jun 2013 #43

My gut feeling is that's abso-fucking-lutely batshit insane Recursion Jun 2013 #72

Because that's what happened. Scootaloo Jun 2013 #81

"Poor Zimmerman, a victim of uncontrollable circumstances?" Adsos Letter Jun 2013 #107

"Fucking punks. These assholes always get away." Scootaloo Jun 2013 #109

I agree with you to the extent that the gun was part of Zimmerman's thinking. Adsos Letter Jun 2013 #110

Zimmerman prepared by making himself "armed and dangerous." reusrename Jun 2013 #111

That may be right cpwm17 Jun 2013 #89

I believe that Zimmy wanted to kill a punk. Maybe not specifically Martin, but I believe people rhett o rick Jun 2013 #12

Yep..I agree. These people have such pathetic lives they'll do anything to be recognized. BlueJazz Jun 2013 #20

Yes, there are people with such fantasies. Mariana Jun 2013 #36

Zimmy The Wanna Be Cop, Racist, Fuckwittage Was Playing A Nasty Game HangOnKids Jun 2013 #83

I agree with you, rhett o rick. Th1onein Jun 2013 #40

SYG was mentioned at first but was not followed through. I think it did not apply to this case. Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #52

Boy I wish I had a better memory...but I think your wrong about SYG Tippy Jun 2013 #117

Spot on. nt awoke_in_2003 Jun 2013 #70

And any Punk would have done....The police told him NO the property owners told him NO Tippy Jun 2013 #101

Yes I agree. nm rhett o rick Jun 2013 #103

If someone is packing a gun, it means: "I sure the fuck hope someone dies, Aristus Jun 2013 #24

Are you crazy? Recursion Jun 2013 #73

And every day that disturbed view Maximumnegro Jun 2013 #85

Zimmy is a slimeball, but I don't think he "set out" to kill someone. HooptieWagon Jun 2013 #38

Does the law make allowances for grandiose fantasies? aquart Jun 2013 #47

Good question. HooptieWagon Jun 2013 #50

How about depraved indifference to human life? aquart Jun 2013 #63

I don't think he stalked Martin with the intent to kill him. HooptieWagon Jun 2013 #66

Wanting approval is NOT an excuse for murder. aquart Jun 2013 #75

Ballet School Love It! HangOnKids Jun 2013 #84

I didn't say it was. HooptieWagon Jun 2013 #106

Why else did he stalk an innocent teenager? n/t malaise Jun 2013 #91

Wow...A mind reader.... DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2013 #93

Well I think it's ridiculous to think a person gets into situations because he can win by killing. dkf Jun 2013 #102

I thought Marcia Clark was getting in a fight that she couldn't lose when she was prosecuting OJ. Captain Stern Jun 2013 #3

Is there any reason that he would believe Trayvon, elleng Jun 2013 #5

Yes. Captain Stern Jun 2013 #10

Guess so. Must say elleng Jun 2013 #14

Not that Zimmerman knew it at the time... Pelican Jun 2013 #39

True, gun lovers have them everywhere and are promoting even more of the dang Hoyt Jun 2013 #56

I don't think Trayvon had enough time to go back to Miami to get it. DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2013 #94

Against the top 5 attorneys in the world ? KurtNYC Jun 2013 #7

I don't believe that's true pintobean Jun 2013 #4

Other than the fact that he had been stalking Martin. last1standing Jun 2013 #8

I wasn't aware of the fact that Zimmerman admitted that he had confronted Martin. Captain Stern Jun 2013 #15

You might want to check the law books on that. last1standing Jun 2013 #18

I think we agree on some points. Captain Stern Jun 2013 #23

Losing a fist fight does not rise to the level of grievous harm. last1standing Jun 2013 #27

I think we agree that there was a physical confrontation Captain Stern Jun 2013 #32

Zimmerman has to do a bit more than merely explain his side of the case. last1standing Jun 2013 #33

I understand and agree. Captain Stern Jun 2013 #45

He must have X-ray vision, then. pintobean Jun 2013 #16

Again, even if for some reason Zimmerman's stalking didn't show him that, last1standing Jun 2013 #19

I didn't argue any of that. pintobean Jun 2013 #22

The bit about fists vs. guns is absolutely not true... Pelican Jun 2013 #42

That's not exacly what I said but there has to be some proportionality. last1standing Jun 2013 #46

TM confronted GZ. Not the other way around. GZ didn't know what TM was carrying Honeycombe8 Jun 2013 #58

And you know that for a fact? last1standing Jun 2013 #60

Yes. It's in the recording of the phone conversation tween GZ & the cop. Honeycombe8 Jun 2013 #65

then why pursue someone if that's the case? frylock Jun 2013 #48

Excellent! thanks, DSB Cha Jun 2013 #6

And if it was Zimmerman who was yelling 'help me, help me' he didn't allow applegrove Jun 2013 #11

If Zimmerman didn't have control it seems as though the shot would have been more pacalo Jun 2013 #21

Did you hear today's witness testimony? The one who saw TM beating up GZ while screams Honeycombe8 Jun 2013 #61

I promised myself I was not going to applegrove Jun 2013 #78

In a situation like that, I don't think anyone can "plan" to set someone up Honeycombe8 Jun 2013 #95

Those screams stopped the millisecond the shot rang out. Zoeisright Jun 2013 #96

Marcia Clark? Seriously? The SAME Marcia Clark who lost a murder case to a RHYME? cherokeeprogressive Jun 2013 #17

Clark and Darden (sigh) Captain Stern Jun 2013 #26

I know right? Comedy writers couldn't brainstorm a funnier scenario... cherokeeprogressive Jun 2013 #28

That's only funny because it's shamefully close to the truth. Captain Stern Jun 2013 #37

glove hibbing Jun 2013 #34

WTF does OJ have to do with Trayvon Maximumnegro Jun 2013 #86

I get the association (Clarke, OJ), but I'm with you appacom Jun 2013 #104

I'll say whatever I want thank you. cherokeeprogressive Jun 2013 #105

Huh? DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2013 #112

She may just be the first to lose a murder case to a silly rhyme. n/t cherokeeprogressive Jun 2013 #113

Or maybe race was introduced into the case DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2013 #116

To a point Terutt Jun 2013 #108

Huh DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2013 #115

Zimmy thought he couldn't lose because he had a gun and knew Karatti. Auntie Bush Jun 2013 #25

I think he had every intention of confronting Trayvon... TeeYiYi Jun 2013 #29

Does that sound as silly when you type it... Pelican Jun 2013 #51

I'm actually Swyping on my phone... TeeYiYi Jun 2013 #54

Well enjoy your swyping... Pelican Jun 2013 #76

Thanks, Pelican! ;D TeeYiYi Jun 2013 #77

What a stupid statement. Zoeisright Jun 2013 #97

Do you have some proof or even circumstantial evidence... Pelican Jun 2013 #98

I've been held at gunpoint twice. Neither time was a gun fired. aquart Jun 2013 #55

Hmmmm... TeeYiYi Jun 2013 #62

Florida has the Murder a Black Man law. Coccydynia Jun 2013 #31

Did Zim really have to aim for the heart? No Vested Interest Jun 2013 #49

The gun cultists are taught to aim for center mass, even in so-called "safety" classes Hoyt Jun 2013 #59

So they're taught to aim to kill- No Vested Interest Jun 2013 #64

I agree, but they have this BS they are taught. They will even try Hoyt Jun 2013 #67

I've learned something here tonight. No Vested Interest Jun 2013 #69

Immobilize how? Pelican Jun 2013 #80

As a member of the military you don't understand this? HangOnKids Jun 2013 #87

Don't wake the poor guy... Pelican Jun 2013 #88

exactly arely staircase Jun 2013 #57

Only if he was sure that Trayvon didn't have a gun. pnwmom Jun 2013 #74

And if Zimmerman already had the gun out as he claimed justiceischeap Jun 2013 #90

The gun cult freepers do love their boy Zimmy, don't they? Kingofalldems Jun 2013 #114