General Discussion

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)

40. except that he showed "depraved mind" by

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 01:01 AM

Jun 2013

1. following and stalking Trayvon, against advice
and against common sense

2. instead of turning himself in and giving an honest
account, he made up tons of confusing bullshit, trying
to make himself the victim.

3. also dealt dishonestly with the money raised from
sympathizers, and was dishonest with the court.

The defense attorney, both of them really, are not
moving or sympathetic characters. They are
super weaselly. I think they may succeed in
turning the jury against their client, simply
because they are so offensive and incredibly
boring and needlessly anal about every
ridiculous irrelevant thing they can grab hold
of

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Zimmerman has already been proved guilty, now it's just a question of punishment. [View all] last1standing Jun 2013 OP

IMO, no. eom uppityperson Jun 2013 #1

The jury will decide this question before much longer. The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2013 #2

He's innocent until the prosecution can prove by the preponderance of the premium Jun 2013 #3

That is not true. last1standing Jun 2013 #8

Ok, that's a good point. premium Jun 2013 #12

thanks! Voice for Peace Jun 2013 #27

Glad I could help. last1standing Jun 2013 #31

maybe a different OP subject line Voice for Peace Jun 2013 #41

Yeah, it does, doesn't it? last1standing Jun 2013 #45

This is why the defense is so miserable and desperate. It seems truly that they've got nothing Voice for Peace Jun 2013 #46

We don't know what the defense has up its sleeve. last1standing Jun 2013 #52

Exactly. backscatter712 Jun 2013 #32

I'm not buying it either dmr Jun 2013 #47

if second degree murder charges are not proven - it's all over and he walks away DrDan Jun 2013 #102

I'm not going to try to make a firm statement concerning Florida law again. last1standing Jun 2013 #104

The defense has not even put on their case yet... davidn3600 Jun 2013 #4

and the prosecution rips them all to shreds in cross examination. Voice for Peace Jun 2013 #28

The prosecution witnesses have done the work for the defense already WhataKnight Jun 2013 #67

Says Who? HangOnKids Jun 2013 #87

You seem to be jumping the gun. (Pun intended.) ManiacJoe Jun 2013 #5

Thank you Professor Corey. rug Jun 2013 #6

Sound to me like you are ready to strap him in and pull the switch. oneshooter Jun 2013 #7

Not at all. I'm merely asking a question based on the evidence so far presented. last1standing Jun 2013 #10

He faces a maximum sentence of life in prison. elleng Jun 2013 #11

Not exactly. elleng Jun 2013 #9

I agree they might have a hard time getting 2nd degree murder. last1standing Jun 2013 #13

From what I've heard so far, elleng Jun 2013 #14

It's not a reasonable doubt standard for affirmative defenses. last1standing Jun 2013 #16

I don't think so. elleng Jun 2013 #19

Do you have any backup for that belief? last1standing Jun 2013 #20

OK, you've got it! elleng Jun 2013 #38

Yep. That's what they taught me in Crim Law. last1standing Jun 2013 #51

I didn't fail either, elleng Jun 2013 #53

If you don't practice crim law it can slip away very easily I'm told. last1standing Jun 2013 #54

OH, you're a newbie! elleng Jun 2013 #59

Lol! Yeah, I'm a returning student. last1standing Jun 2013 #62

TRUE that you never know, elleng Jun 2013 #65

Let's hope. last1standing Jun 2013 #68

Markets constantly change, elleng Jun 2013 #74

That does give me hope. last1standing Jun 2013 #76

I'm happy that my story gives you hope. elleng Jun 2013 #79

I will. Thanks. last1standing Jun 2013 #80

VOILA! elleng Jun 2013 #82

Thanks very much! last1standing Jun 2013 #84

This message was self-deleted by its author COLGATE4 Jun 2013 #110

Charge should be more like voluntary manslaughter davidn3600 Jun 2013 #23

I agree. last1standing Jun 2013 #25

' Contrast second degree murder with manslaughter. elleng Jun 2013 #26

Right, so long as the state does in fact ask for the lesser degree. last1standing Jun 2013 #29

several people have said (you can take that with a grain of salt) Voice for Peace Jun 2013 #33

That's exactly what I think. last1standing Jun 2013 #34

It also seems obvious -- I would be VERY surprised if the jury thought otherwise -- Voice for Peace Jun 2013 #44

LOL! You may change your mind after hearing the defense. last1standing Jun 2013 #73

This is a joke, right? n/t Azathoth Jun 2013 #15

Nope. I'm just looking for some reasoned discussion on the subject. last1standing Jun 2013 #17

Well, your premise is simply wrong Azathoth Jun 2013 #21

Then my crim law professor needs to re-read his law books. last1standing Jun 2013 #24

I would ask for a refund from your law school if I were you Azathoth Jun 2013 #36

I was polite enough to provide you a link. last1standing Jun 2013 #42

Are you for real? Azathoth Jun 2013 #81

I'm very much for real. Thanks. last1standing Jun 2013 #83

Ah! I think I see where we're in disagreement. last1standing Jun 2013 #85

That's quite interesting. Incidently, I apologize for my initial assumptions, although Azathoth Jun 2013 #114

I did use a term that was more inflamatory than I expected. last1standing Jun 2013 #118

As a seasoned lawyer to a new one COLGATE4 Jun 2013 #94

LOL! I appreciate the advice last1standing Jun 2013 #96

So you, as a seasoned lawyer, agree that Zimmerman is "already proved guilty"? n/t Azathoth Jun 2013 #112

No - what I said is that the issue of whether he killed Trayvon has COLGATE4 Jun 2013 #113

So we are in agreement Azathoth Jun 2013 #115

The ONLY "reasoned discussion" on the subject would include the fact that the jury hasn't decided cherokeeprogressive Jun 2013 #58

Then please feel free not to join in. last1standing Jun 2013 #72

Florida has a history of "over charging" to insure russspeakeasy Jun 2013 #18

That I could believe. last1standing Jun 2013 #22

I'm no sort of lawyer but I have been told by one who should know that the Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #119

His doctor hit his self defense claims pretty hard Nevernose Jun 2013 #30

I didn't watch or hear the actual trial but it sound like the prosecution did its job. last1standing Jun 2013 #35

Eyewitness testimony is awful Nevernose Jun 2013 #39

That does seem a clever move in hindsight. last1standing Jun 2013 #75

Mark O'Meara, at the end, showed many blown up photos of Zimmerman's head taken nenagh Jun 2013 #90

except that he showed "depraved mind" by Voice for Peace Jun 2013 #40

I agree wholeheartedly Nevernose Jun 2013 #43

Based on what we've heard it doesn't look good for Zimmerman. last1standing Jun 2013 #49

I was just reading on the Findlaw site and Voice for Peace Jun 2013 #50

Thanks. last1standing Jun 2013 #56

this is another source with different info about the affirmative defense Voice for Peace Jun 2013 #95

Why ask us? RudynJack Jun 2013 #37

Because this is a discussion forum and I wanted to discuss the case. last1standing Jun 2013 #48

The discussion would be better RudynJack Jun 2013 #60

I'm a law student. It's my job to obsess over every nuance. last1standing Jun 2013 #66

Back up your post. Show proven, and of what. flvegan Jun 2013 #55

Ok. Zimmerman has admitted that he killed Martin. last1standing Jun 2013 #61

How is that "proved guilty" and please be specific, thanks. flvegan Jun 2013 #86

I was using "guilty" in the sense that he admits he did it. last1standing Jun 2013 #88

I love that you leverage your own "guilty" v an unknown to you affirmative defense. flvegan Jun 2013 #89

Ok. Nice to meet you. last1standing Jun 2013 #91

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think Zimmerman has the burden of proof. Vattel Jun 2013 #57

Florida could have a lesser standard. last1standing Jun 2013 #63

Ok. I just skimmed that case and it doesn't sound as bad as I thought. last1standing Jun 2013 #71

I don't think you are reading the opinion correctly. Vattel Jun 2013 #97

I wasn't. last1standing Jun 2013 #99

Acquitted or convicted customerserviceguy Jun 2013 #64

Nope. last1standing Jun 2013 #70

Come on customerserviceguy Jun 2013 #92

Not that I disagree with that, but I remember people saying the same about OJ Simpson. last1standing Jun 2013 #93

OJ had enough money and fame customerserviceguy Jun 2013 #98

Make him neighborhood watch dude of... mindwalker_i Jun 2013 #69

I would hate to be on this jury. Contrary1 Jun 2013 #77

I've posted proof to the contrary several times in this thread. last1standing Jun 2013 #78

Florida law: defense does not have burden proof ctaylors6 Jun 2013 #100

The first line of your quoted text disagrees with your title. last1standing Jun 2013 #103

burden of presenting evidence ctaylors6 Jun 2013 #106

Yes, and I stated that was wrong in my last post to you. last1standing Jun 2013 #108

huh? so what about those second degree murder charges? DrDan Jun 2013 #101

I understand you wouldn't have read through every comment in this thread. last1standing Jun 2013 #105

well - I was immediately confused when I read he was "proved guilty" DrDan Jun 2013 #107

Again, please check out my many other posts where I explain it. last1standing Jun 2013 #109

well- a lot of posts to read - but it is certainly my understanding DrDan Jun 2013 #111

You're correct that the prosecution still has to prove each element of the crime. last1standing Jun 2013 #117

Zimmerman's woulds are big points for his side - if they can explain the lack of DNA/wounds on TM's DrDan Jun 2013 #120

It is premature to ask for a verdict. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #116