General Discussion

alarimer

(17,146 posts)

114. "Our side" is abusing it.

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 10:09 AM

Jun 2013

Obama is engaging in the VERY SAME activities that Bush did, yet he is more trustworthy? No. What I've learned from this whol miserable experience is that none of them are to be trusted unconditionally, but must be pushed and prodded to do the right thing.

As I have learned from both Clinton and especially Obama. I trust it less now that during the Bush administration because I expect more from "our" side. Turns out I was wrong to trust Obama and I will never trust any politician and especially the President ever again.

They are not on the people's side. They are on their own side. They side with the corporations every time. Wall Street when the Democrats are in; military contractors when the Republicans are in. But of course most corporations hedge their bets and bribe both sides equally.

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I'll ask it more simply: can the government be trusted? [View all] Recursion Jun 2013 OP

Not really. I'm of the school of thought, 'Question all authority.' closeupready Jun 2013 #1

So what part of the Democratic platform appeals to you, then? Recursion Jun 2013 #2

Wait - what? That wasn't what you asked us. closeupready Jun 2013 #3

Post #2 was a different question from my OP Recursion Jun 2013 #4

I participate on DU primarily as a traditional liberal, a gay man, closeupready Jun 2013 #48

Expanding government to help the poor, protect us from predatory corporations, etc. alarimer Jun 2013 #113

If ya gotta ask................... dixiegrrrrl Jun 2013 #5

Is the question.... daleanime Jun 2013 #6

Very good question. I was thinking of "the government" in abstract Recursion Jun 2013 #9

Actually it depends on the 'surrounding' instutions.... daleanime Jun 2013 #82

OK, well most of those sound dysfunctional right now Recursion Jun 2013 #83

"A crack in our coalition" CakeGrrl Jun 2013 #7

I don't know about "objective"; the impetus was my seeing people here saying they have no trust... Recursion Jun 2013 #10

Thanks for clarifying. CakeGrrl Jun 2013 #47

How about: It depends on the party in power. Pholus Jun 2013 #8

Really?!? didact Jun 2013 #61

Sorry. Attempt to point out that even if you completely trust Pholus Jun 2013 #63

"Our side" is abusing it. alarimer Jun 2013 #114

Agreed, but there is the "fig leaf" of legality. Pholus Jun 2013 #118

PASS Martin Eden Jun 2013 #11

Fair enough (nt) Recursion Jun 2013 #12

Agreed... KansDem Jun 2013 #41

The government isn't a single homogenous entity NoOneMan Jun 2013 #13

Just clarifying, did you mean "you shouldn't blindly trust"? (nt) Recursion Jun 2013 #14

Yep. :) NoOneMan Jun 2013 #21

No, trust and government don't belong in the same statement. TheKentuckian Jun 2013 #15

Then why the hell are we even *talking about* the Government running health care? Recursion Jun 2013 #17

We shouldn't trust the government to run health care NoOneMan Jun 2013 #23

What does "transparently" mean? Recursion Jun 2013 #25

It means being able to observe the flow of funds, contracts, payouts, wait times per procedure, etc. NoOneMan Jun 2013 #31

OK, but a President Santorum would still have the capability to get your health record Recursion Jun 2013 #33

Yes, depending on how such records are kept (provided that they are kept) NoOneMan Jun 2013 #43

If you use insurance to pay for your doctor visit, Art_from_Ark Jun 2013 #84

And if I use a phone company to call a number, that fact isn't going to be private Recursion Jun 2013 #85

The distinction is quite clear Art_from_Ark Jun 2013 #87

Verizon sure as hell needs to know Recursion Jun 2013 #88

The *people* at Verizon don't have to know who you call Art_from_Ark Jun 2013 #89

Well hell, the *people* at the NSA don't know who I call either Recursion Jun 2013 #90

There's a huge difference Art_from_Ark Jun 2013 #92

No One wants the government to "run health care" we just want them to act as a single payer Dragonfli Jun 2013 #49

I do. I want a USNHS Recursion Jun 2013 #55

I do, too. n/t pampango Jun 2013 #67

I have studied single payer and living just across the river from Ft. Erie Canada, Dragonfli Jun 2013 #78

I'm talking about government as payer and even then obviously you must have safeguards, TheKentuckian Jun 2013 #93

Oh so THAT'S why you phrased the question "more simply"! sibelian Jun 2013 #98

I was condensing where an earlier OP went Recursion Jun 2013 #99

In a democracy the people should neither trust nor fear their government. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #16

So that's a "no" on single payer from you? Recursion Jun 2013 #18

No. What gives you that idea? Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #19

Nobody's "above scrutiny" Recursion Jun 2013 #20

Then, why, pray tell, is the NSA keeping its doings secret. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #22

I assume they know what's in the other documents Snowden has Recursion Jun 2013 #27

Another example: Nixon's plumbers. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #32

"nobody's above scrutiny"? SomethingFishy Jun 2013 #36

Why do you trust the HHS but not the military? Recursion Jun 2013 #37

The military dosn't NEED to be trustworthy to function. sibelian Jun 2013 #66

You would trust a private insurance company Enthusiast Jun 2013 #40

I trust both in general to obey the law Recursion Jun 2013 #42

Oh my gosh Art_from_Ark Jun 2013 #96

Hell no. There can be no democracy without transparency and accountability. limpyhobbler Jun 2013 #24

At this point in history, it appears Enthusiast Jun 2013 #26

So should we stop seeking government solutions to social problems? Recursion Jun 2013 #29

Do you realize that if you are the only one not "getting it", maybe the routine is getting boring? NoOneMan Jun 2013 #35

I'm hardly the only DUer troubled by libertarian talking points on this board (nt) Recursion Jun 2013 #39

Social libertarianism has been an intrinsic part of the Democratic Party for ages NoOneMan Jun 2013 #46

No, we should try to get control of the reins of government. Enthusiast Jun 2013 #44

I trust "government" slightly more than "private enterprise", but tularetom Jun 2013 #28

A better question is: Should the government be based on the trust of those in power? Salviati Jun 2013 #30

So why should I trust the government with my health records? Recursion Jun 2013 #34

Why do you trust anyone with your health records? Salviati Jun 2013 #45

But most people do want terrorist plots stopped before they happen Recursion Jun 2013 #86

I trust it more than your average tea partier does, but less than I used to. As a liberal, pampango Jun 2013 #38

No, the Gov't absolutely cannot be trusted Hydra Jun 2013 #50

OF COURSE NOT. nt woo me with science Jun 2013 #51

Gods no. No one can be trusted. MrSlayer Jun 2013 #52

I get your point treestar Jun 2013 #53

Government is a huge category BainsBane Jun 2013 #54

Too simply. Orsino Jun 2013 #56

Everyone who votes no or hell no needs to stop whining about single payer. Now. DevonRex Jun 2013 #57

Only a moron would place their trust in the government--any government. DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #60

LOL! Guess you haven't seen the tie-in between the faux-IRS/NSA scandals and DevonRex Jun 2013 #62

I don't care who tea baggers trust or mistrust DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #64

That's really silly since they have representatives in Congress who vote DevonRex Jun 2013 #72

You seem to be very 'bagger-controlled. I'm just not. Have fun with it. DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #81

Yeah I'm not worried about SS or publuc option as they aren't doing anything evil. sibelian Jun 2013 #68

Neither is the connection they're drawing between the IRS being the agency who "implements" DevonRex Jun 2013 #74

Sometimes they make a few right decisions bigwillq Jun 2013 #73

Trusting the MIC isn't at all the same as Union Scribe Jun 2013 #97

Thomas Jefferson told us to NEVER "trust" the government, bvar22 Jun 2013 #58

Nope (nt) bigwillq Jun 2013 #59

I think it's possible (and preferable) to be able to trust government, but our system.... OneGrassRoot Jun 2013 #65

AHEM. ahEM ahEM. sibelian Jun 2013 #69

Hell No...... ForeignandDomestic Jun 2013 #70

To do the wrong thing most of the time? Absolutely. REP Jun 2013 #71

My opinion is that when the cheating and lying party became successful in cheating on elections Cleita Jun 2013 #75

No - Domestic Surveillance, VRA, Wall Street, NDAA, etc ... cantbeserious Jun 2013 #76

Do you trust a pound to weigh a pound? aquart Jun 2013 #77

Government can be trusted a hell of a lot more than corporations. baldguy Jun 2013 #79

Hmm, Trust,......no eaglesclaw Jun 2013 #80

Depends on what we're talking about, of course. Can they be trusted to inspect food? Marr Jun 2013 #91

Oh but that's NO FAIR! You won't play along w OP's silly, childishly reductive game kenny blankenship Jun 2013 #94

The control of our government by profit motivated wealthy private interests makes the government Zorra Jun 2013 #95

Back when it was WE the people, before they the corporations took over ileus Jun 2013 #100

Difficult question. Trust must be earned. Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #101

In theory, yes. In practice, it's hard. rucky Jun 2013 #102

Wasn't this one of the reasons for the 2nd Amendment? HiddenAgenda63 Jun 2013 #103

So I've heard, though I'm not a fan of that particularly Recursion Jun 2013 #106

I much prefer mine locked away securely in my home... HiddenAgenda63 Jun 2013 #115

Wow. This OP sure attracted the pros. GoneFishin Jun 2013 #104

The political side or the functional side? moondust Jun 2013 #105

That's a good distinction, though I haven't seen many departments where the pol side has much power Recursion Jun 2013 #109

Forest Service? Park Service? Education? Transportation? Cerridwen Jun 2013 #107

So which parts do you trust more than others, and why? Recursion Jun 2013 #108

Out of the hundreds of US agencies you want me to post Cerridwen Jun 2013 #110

Huh? I'm trying to push back against "government is evil". Recursion Jun 2013 #111

My apologies. I'll change the pronoun. Cerridwen Jun 2013 #112

It appears, from the poll results, that we have a problem. "We hold these truths to be self-evident Zorra Jun 2013 #116

In a nutshell malokvale77 Jun 2013 #117