General Discussion

randome

(34,845 posts)

116. It's the digital age. Data is never 'given back', it's copied and then deleted.

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 11:54 AM

Jun 2013

And there is a limit to how long the government can keep the metadata. It's five years, I believe. Easy enough to run a batch job every evening to delete every record more than 5 years old.

If the NSA did not keep a copy of this data, when they had a warrant it would need to be issued to every telecom in the country, which means a much greater opportunity for interception, hacking and even telecom employee malfeasance. And the process would take much longer to get a result.

Keeping the data in one place greatly simplifies the process and if this 'one place' is sufficiently safeguarded (i.e. a black box type of storage) then I have no problem whatsoever with the NSA doing this.

It would truly benefit all of us if we knew what the procedures and safeguards are for accessing this black box.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

187 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Glenn Greenwald: NSA Can Store A BILLION CELL PHONE CALLS Every Day [View all] Segami Jun 2013 OP

So they own a lot of hard drives intaglio Jun 2013 #1

I think what we are suggesting is that the NSA adhere to the 4th amendment. Warren Stupidity Jun 2013 #2

And we can have that discussion without elevating a RW libertarian douchebag to the status of a hero baldguy Jun 2013 #3

You need more talking points. You left out China, Russia, Ecuador, and Cuba. Warren Stupidity Jun 2013 #5

Yes, the moment he's not the only source for the info. Pholus Jun 2013 #31

Did all of those 46% attend the briefings and such about the NSA or its programs et al? Bodhi BloodWave Jun 2013 #90

Collins' argument was that you can't request a briefing for things you don't know. Pholus Jun 2013 #117

There's a lot of "Catch 22" here though... ljm2002 Jun 2013 #120

Right, it's clear marions ghost Jun 2013 #141

I'm sure you have as much disdain and rejection of the neocon/Bush surveillance state Fire Walk With Me Jun 2013 #44

Obama ended the NSAs abuses under the Bush Regime, & forced them to get warrants for their wire taps baldguy Jun 2013 #52

Nonsense. He clearly did not end the NSA abuses. GoneFishin Jun 2013 #66

On behalf of The Carlyle Group, Booz Allen, Academia, Halliburton, Beltek, Stratfor, HB Gary etc think Jun 2013 #151

Wait wut? Fire Walk With Me Jun 2013 #158

. baldguy Jun 2013 #163

"If the president does it, that means it is not illegal." ~Richard M. Nixon. Fire Walk With Me Jun 2013 #164

So, what you really want is to impeach Barack Obama. And why not Joe Biden while you're at it. baldguy Jun 2013 #166

He's been obsessed with the NDAA for a year now. randome Jun 2013 #169

I'm sure Snowden took note of that "small" detail in the NDAAs think Jun 2013 #179

Funny he didn't mention it. Funny he didn't understand what a secure FTP server is. randome Jun 2013 #183

I hadn't consider that the NDAA clause could be used to indefinitely detain Snowden either. think Jun 2013 #184

If: I have a problem with Obama's UNCONSTITUTIONAL acts, Then: I want Boenher for president. Fire Walk With Me Jun 2013 #170

Your comment proves that you have no fucking clue how our govt works. baldguy Jun 2013 #172

For some reason someone alerted this, Jury voted 3-3.... Logical Jun 2013 #182

Thank you, what an asshole to alert and ASSume. I =do= vote for democrats. Fire Walk With Me Jun 2013 #185

No we cant. That's the whole point. People have tried to "have that discussion" in the past and rhett o rick Jun 2013 #56

What's childish is supposedly rational, supposedly liberal people trying desperately baldguy Jun 2013 #59

"You're allowing a RW libertarian Paulbot" Again childish. rhett o rick Jun 2013 #63

And what is childish is hyperbole zeemike Jun 2013 #68

Then you haven't been paying attention. baldguy Jun 2013 #76

Well you fell for the propaganda it seems. TM99 Jun 2013 #69

Greenwald may, or may not be a "douche," but he is REPORTING! Dustlawyer Jun 2013 #174

Then they should say exactly how the 4th is breached intaglio Jun 2013 #4

None so blind as those wont see. Warren Stupidity Jun 2013 #6

none so blind as those ignoring case law intaglio Jun 2013 #9

Mass domestic surveillance has not gone through a 4th amendment challenge. Warren Stupidity Jun 2013 #10

Metadata phone records are not your property. randome Jun 2013 #11

Bingo. baldguy Jun 2013 #13

I wonder how many threads must be hidden before TOS violations.... grasswire Jun 2013 #176

ah of course. Arguably neither is the information passing over the internet, right? Warren Stupidity Jun 2013 #17

Data that is stored by a third party is not yours. randome Jun 2013 #20

Hold on there. One argument at a time. Warren Stupidity Jun 2013 #21

They need a search warrant to go on or search gholtron Jun 2013 #61

I also want to make this point too. gholtron Jun 2013 #65

Smith v Maryland intaglio Jun 2013 #79

Then you medical and bank records can be had too right? zeemike Jun 2013 #72

There are entire volumes of laws and rules preventing that information from being shared. randome Jun 2013 #77

Well state those laws. zeemike Jun 2013 #89

I'm no law or privacy scholar. I have no idea what laws are in place for school records. randome Jun 2013 #92

Recording of calls and storing them for a possible evidence in a criminal case without a warrant boston bean Jun 2013 #106

There is nothing to suggest that's being done. randome Jun 2013 #107

Long read,but worth it. Go Vols Jun 2013 #147

Those are not published, metadata is published intaglio Jun 2013 #84

How about your doctors meta data? zeemike Jun 2013 #97

That is not published information intaglio Jun 2013 #104

So you mean the phone company publishes zeemike Jun 2013 #135

The information dialed into a phone system is published intaglio Jun 2013 #143

HIPAA prevents the reporting of medical records. No such statute applies to telephone metadata. OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #136

And does it prevent the FISA court from issuing a warrant zeemike Jun 2013 #144

Does what "prevent the FISA court from issuing a warrant"? OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #152

Well then so are the answers. zeemike Jun 2013 #155

Your Bank Records... KharmaTrain Jun 2013 #86

But the corporations do not have the power zeemike Jun 2013 #91

What we truly need to know about the NSA... randome Jun 2013 #96

No what we need is adherence to the forth amendment. zeemike Jun 2013 #98

They Sure Can Screw Over Your LIfe... KharmaTrain Jun 2013 #99

Well that is why I said not yet. zeemike Jun 2013 #101

The State... KharmaTrain Jun 2013 #109

Yep, the world that is. zeemike Jun 2013 #134

+1. anything that's on a computer is theirs. and since they're corraling us into putting HiPointDem Jun 2013 #180

the evidence is that the pres said it is being stored ,,geesh questionseverything Jun 2013 #146

He did not say that the contents of all calls are being stored. randome Jun 2013 #153

I've been saying that over and over gholtron Jun 2013 #58

You remember the 'truism' that it takes more muscles to frown than to smile? randome Jun 2013 #70

What it really is is that some people find it "icky" intaglio Jun 2013 #85

By the way, gholtron Jun 2013 #93

I get you. And I wasn't trying to 'teach' you anything, either. randome Jun 2013 #95

I Appreciate Your Bringing Legal Terminology into the Discussion On the Road Jun 2013 #173

So secondvariety Jun 2013 #78

No, it means the 4th amendment is not being violated. randome Jun 2013 #81

If the phone records secondvariety Jun 2013 #115

It's the digital age. Data is never 'given back', it's copied and then deleted. randome Jun 2013 #116

So, secondvariety Jun 2013 #122

Why would it be idiotic? randome Jun 2013 #129

But, Clapper secondvariety Jun 2013 #140

Did Clapper say that specifically about the metadata? randome Jun 2013 #154

My guess secondvariety Jun 2013 #161

You have no reason to think they are abusing the law. randome Jun 2013 #162

The law. secondvariety Jun 2013 #165

There is Congressional oversight but I don't know how detailed that goes. randome Jun 2013 #168

How it functions is anyone's guess. secondvariety Jun 2013 #171

I don't see how metadata collection violates the 4th Amendment in any way. JaneyVee Jun 2013 #19

Good for you. I hope you like your National Security State. Warren Stupidity Jun 2013 #24

My point was about the legalities of it pertaining to the 4th amendment. JaneyVee Jun 2013 #26

But you'll trust Verizon to know all that. They don't have laws preventing misuse. randome Jun 2013 #35

The point is very simple, the Congress and the President do not agree Progressive dog Jun 2013 #43

Two things, and funny you should mention license plates. Fire Walk With Me Jun 2013 #34

Do people really pipoman Jun 2013 #62

When did the government not have that ability to destroy individual lives? randome Jun 2013 #67

Snowden is a flea on a dogs tail...the same tail that is wagging the dog.. pipoman Jun 2013 #112

Well you seem to be ignorant of some lies you have issued intaglio Jun 2013 #100

well.. pipoman Jun 2013 #175

What a charming person you are intaglio Jun 2013 #177

LOL pipoman Jun 2013 #178

I gave examples of lies that you told intaglio Jun 2013 #181

Do you really not see the parody pipoman Jun 2013 #186

I've admitted to a justified ad hom intaglio Jul 2013 #187

Sometimes the gummint keeps secrets to protect your privacy. OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #142

How true railsback Jun 2013 #111

First of your problems intaglio Jun 2013 #36

I find your arguments the most compelling in this discussion! nt MADem Jun 2013 #14

And, like most major violations of the spirit of this nation, the "fig leaf" Pholus Jun 2013 #40

Very much agree intaglio Jun 2013 #46

No need to worry about pride, you're being very thoughtful about this. Pholus Jun 2013 #48

Just because there is a law doesnt mean it doesnt violate the Constitution. I suggest you read the rhett o rick Jun 2013 #64

I suggest you take the Supreme Court's word intaglio Jun 2013 #74

That ruling only applied to "pen registers". The warrant we've seen rhett o rick Jun 2013 #88

Pen registers and the information encoded in the the dialing of the number intaglio Jun 2013 #102

Here's a more pertinent SCOTUS action. OnyxCollie Jun 2013 #103

Thanks for that intaglio Jun 2013 #105

du rec. xchrom Jun 2013 #7

So the technology 'can' do this? Is the NSA using it? randome Jun 2013 #8

If they build it cpwm17 Jun 2013 #12

Technology is often not 'built' in the way physical things are built. randome Jun 2013 #16

When I was a little kid, we were told there'd be jet packs for everyone. MADem Jun 2013 #18

Jet packs are a very impracticle technology for widespread use cpwm17 Jun 2013 #23

We were promised them, though. PROMISED! MADem Jun 2013 #25

Talk about a red hearing....sheesh... zeemike Jun 2013 #83

No, this is a red herring. I don't see the resemblance at all. randome Jun 2013 #87

Well, it wasn't a Communist who told me this, and my hearing was quite good at the time...! nt MADem Jun 2013 #114

So three teenage girls overflow their system? tclambert Jun 2013 #15

Ha! It is to be fervently wished. Demit Jun 2013 #22

Now this report by Greenwald shows he does not have any concept of what he is Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #27

Greenwald says, ""It doesn't mean that they're listening to every call, it means they're storing Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #32

Do we have only a billion people in the US who has a cell phone? How many cell phone customers do Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #49

Ummm, the US population is 313.9 million. A factor of 3 smaller than a "billion" Pholus Jun 2013 #51

The 2014 NDAA creates a new complex dedicated to the analysis of stored data and metadata. Fire Walk With Me Jun 2013 #38

A billion would be three calls per day per cell phone user. Pholus Jun 2013 #47

How long do you expect a call to last, it does not add up. Longer calls means more storage is taken Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #53

You should probably just examine a calculation yourself. Pholus Jun 2013 #57

Greenwald ProSense Jun 2013 #28

Would you give the government permission to put a camera in every room in your house Bolo Boffin Jun 2013 #29

Here's the video for any good souls who missed it Catherina Jun 2013 #30

I think he is confused. DCBob Jun 2013 #33

It is technically possible, but not very probable FarCenter Jun 2013 #45

It could be they are storing selectively. DCBob Jun 2013 #50

CALEA mandates that they have that capability. FarCenter Jun 2013 #54

Between tower and handset is about 8 Kb/s Trekologer Jun 2013 #148

The guy who does the "Internet Archive" did a calculation Pholus Jun 2013 #55

Once again, he could have read about Bush doing this and MORE here on DU many years ago! Coyotl Jun 2013 #37

But...but greenwald is a something or other! This means everything he says doesn't matter! Fire Walk With Me Jun 2013 #42

Relevantly, A-Ha was releasing new albums well into 2009 or so. Robb Jun 2013 #39

No, actually 3 days of the entire Internet, per day denem Jun 2013 #41

Prudence Dictates That One Must Make The Assumption That Everything Will Be Recorded cantbeserious Jun 2013 #60

I figure the Terrorists already do... Pholus Jun 2013 #71

Any Smart Malcontent Would Surely Avoid All Forms Of Electronic Communication cantbeserious Jun 2013 #75

The NSA "trap" then is the illusion of freedom or being lost in the noise.... Pholus Jun 2013 #118

Agree - The Surveillance Is For Us - Not The Terrorists cantbeserious Jun 2013 #121

I think my point was, we are all potential Terrorists now. Pholus Jun 2013 #125

K&R Vinnie From Indy Jun 2013 #73

A billion?... SidDithers Jun 2013 #80

So many it staggers the imagination. randome Jun 2013 #82

Not spoken like Carl. Pholus Jun 2013 #119

a billion's got nuthin' on a Sexdecillion flamingdem Jun 2013 #124

I breathlessly await your next contribution. Pholus Jun 2013 #126

I listened to the video posted here last night flamingdem Jun 2013 #128

That's fair enough. Pholus Jun 2013 #133

lol - no not a billion a Sexdecillion !11(one)! flamingdem Jun 2013 #123

LOL Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 #137

Hasn't Echelon already been intercepting / storing over 3 billion / day for decades? HiddenAgenda63 Jun 2013 #94

I have a car railsback Jun 2013 #108

Prove it! randome Jun 2013 #110

"And ramming it into the wall while obeying the speed limit? How lame." railsback Jun 2013 #113

So which cell phone companies are complying with the NSA spying on Americans? Apophis Jun 2013 #127

I'm thinking it's all of them. randome Jun 2013 #132

And the authoritarians break out their goto talking point: We already knew that! DesMoinesDem Jun 2013 #130

"hard work, but someody's got to do it" bobduca Jun 2013 #139

So they have the ability to do this Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 #131

K & R !!! WillyT Jun 2013 #138

that would be storing.... madrchsod Jun 2013 #145

A lot of it has to do with all the calls we make to our Congressmen. Major Hogwash Jun 2013 #149

That last sentence really clarifies things a lot 99th_Monkey Jun 2013 #150

knr Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #156

I can drink 10 beers before feeling intoxicated! railsback Jun 2013 #157

It's a fact! randome Jun 2013 #160

LoL! railsback Jun 2013 #167

k and r nashville_brook Jun 2013 #159